What's so bad about this game?

[PhoenixDragon]

Of course. Fans were expecting a spiritual sequel to RO OST.

(Urge to quote Inigo Montoyo rising)

At most you might say say some were expecting a remake. Others were expecting a sequel - a direct sequel, that is. That's not the same as a spiritual sequel. It's fair to say that the only people who were expecting a spiritual sequel are the people who don't know what that phrase means.

Also, if you weren't aware of the differences between realism and relaxed realism before you bought the game, then you weren't paying attention. They made the differences quite clear before release, and what I got matched what I expected.

 

[Cyper]

(Urge to quote Inigo Montoyo rising)

At most you might say say some were expecting a remake. Others were expecting a sequel - a direct sequel, that is. That's not the same as a spiritual sequel. It's fair to say that the only people who were expecting a spiritual sequel are the people who don't know what that phrase means.

Also, if you weren't aware of the differences between realism and relaxed realism before you bought the game, then you weren't paying attention. They made the differences quite clear before release, and what I got matched what I expected.

What we can say is that most people did not get what they wanted hence the complaints on this board and in user reviews. So whatever they expected they did not get it.

I thought Realism Mode would be completely separate from Relaxed Realism. Because that's kinda the point. Relaxed- realism, realism-relaxed. It was not. It was Relaxed Realism with another name. It would be easier if TWI just have told us all that they would dumb down the game and not focus on their old audience and therefore not develop a proper hardcore mode. But this does of course not make sense in terms of marketing. But it would at least be the truth. TWIs lack of effort in Realism Mode shows up when I play it.

 

[Grobut]

Also, if you weren't aware of the differences between realism and relaxed realism before you bought the game, then you weren't paying attention. They made the differences quite clear before release, and what I got matched what I expected.

Rubbish, we were paying attention long before you joined this forum, the problem is that what TWI made "quite clear" changed radically very late in the game's development. Tons of people did not get the memo, and many more were in denial, refusing to belive that they would change good ideas into such terrible ones, and accused those of us who were trying to explain what was happening of beeing trolls.

And no, they did not make it "quite clear" either, as one of the people who was branded a troll and hater for telling people "no, the MKb won't be hero only, they have changed that now!" and "dude no, they are saying the realism mode actually won't be different from the arcade mode now, it's just HUD stuff mostly", and quoting TWI's posts to try and make them see what was going on, let me tell you, i had very little success getting people to see the writing on the wall, because TWI's postings were not that clear, and could easilly be interprited in different ways.


This was probably all before your time here, but let me tell you, the game TWI said Ro2 would be for the vast majority of it's development, was a radically different one than what we got, and the RO community wasen't given much warning about the changes before the game's release (and that was by design, TWI knew we would hate a lot of the changes).

 

[PhoenixDragon]

This was probably all before your time here, but let me tell you, the game TWI said Ro2 would be for the vast majority of it's development, was a radically different one than what we got, and the RO community wasen't given much warning about the changes before the game's release (and that was by design, TWI knew we would hate a lot of the changes).

For someone who's quick to point out forum registration times in a vaguely condescending way, I find it amusing that you apparently had much less of an idea of what RO2 was going to be before launch than I did. I pre-ordered RO2 well before release (I can't remember precisely, but fairly shortly after the pre-order was first available), and the details in question (The relation between realism and relaxed realism) were exactly as they had said before I placed the order. TWI was quite clear about how they were doing things. If someone missed it, then they weren't paying attention. They weren't exactly being subtle...

 

[u-s-e-r]

For someone who's quick to point out forum registration times in a vaguely condescending way, I find it amusing that you apparently had much less of an idea of what RO2 was going to be before launch than I did. I pre-ordered RO2 well before release (I can't remember precisely, but fairly shortly after the pre-order was first available), and the details in question (The relation between realism and relaxed realism) were exactly as they had said before I placed the order. TWI was quite clear about how they were doing things. If someone missed it, then they weren't paying attention. They weren't exactly being subtle...

Maybe you missed things that Grobut didnt miss and not the other way around?

 

[Grobut]

For someone who's quick to point out forum registration times in a vaguely condescending way, I find it amusing that you apparently had much less of an idea of what RO2 was going to be before launch than I did.

Wrong, as i clearly wrote above in plain english, i was one of the people here trying to make people aware that TWI had changed their plans, and that we were nolonger getting the same game that was origionally described to us.
I knew what the game would turn out as since the Prague event, and i took a lot of flak for trying to inform people about things they didn't like hearing.

I pre-ordered RO2 well before release (I can't remember precisely, but fairly shortly after the pre-order was first available), and the details in question (The relation between realism and relaxed realism) were exactly as they had said before I placed the order. TWI was quite clear about how they were doing things. If someone missed it, then they weren't paying attention. They weren't exactly being subtle...

You are arguing from ignorance, what did you read about this game from this forum back in 2009? 2010? Did you even know it existed back then? Do you have any idea what i'm talking about when i say "they described a very different game back then"?

I'm not pointing out forum join dates because i'm some elitist arsehole, or because i think those numbers to the right of our names make me better than you or any garbage like that.

But put very simply, if you weren't here back then, if you didn't see it, if you didn't hear or read it, then how can you claim to know anything about what has been said and done here?


This game was marketed to the RO community long before it had a Steam store-page, long before TWI was giving any interviews about it, long before they released any info about it to any external websites, long before the game was even called "Ro2: heroes of stalingrad", long before 2011.

What can you tell me about what was said back then right here in the community?


Well, a lot was said, and the things said back then formed the expectations of the RO community, and it wasen't till shortly before the game was released, around the time you and so many other new faces joined here, that we started beeing told very different things that starkly contradicted what we had been told in the past, leading to massive confusion amongst the old guys here about what the game would be, contradictory information will do that to people..

 

[PhoenixDragon]

Sorry, mis-read that. The hazards of posting just before bed. However...

Tons of people did not get the memo, and many more were in denial, refusing to belive that they would change good ideas into such terrible ones, and accused those of us who were trying to explain what was happening of beeing trolls.

...that is sounding like "many more" were, indeed, not paying attention. Or stubbornly refusing to pay attention, as the case may be.

 

[Sensemann]

PhoenixDragon,

Grobut is right with what he is saying. Until around about 3 months prior to release of the game, Devs posted that RO 2 will be more hardcore to play for the "expert" player, while offering an easier way to get into the game, with the relaxed mode. Also, it was said that the Mkb would always be a rare weapon and many other statements were made, that made long-time supporters believe that the path of RO 2 is not going another direction, just offering an option to be more interesting to new players to come in.
In the last weeks prior to release, info started to dramatically change and it could be seen by careful readers and contradictionary statements that were made. Most of those posts have been deleted from the forums. Some community members have been blocked.
However, there is still enough information to be found online.
To call it ""many more" were, indeed, not paying attention. Or stubbornly refusing to pay attention, as the case may be. " is not just ignoring facts, but an insult.
I usually also don't care about join dates on the forum, but in your case, it states that you joined end of 2011, long time after release and the "cleaning" of the forums. If you have not read through the forums, you could not know. Or try google.

 

[Pinball Jones]

Gawd, not this thread again.

 

[DiedTrying]

The game just never clicked with me.

Not sure why, it just didn't have "it".

Maybe I'm just growing up?

 

[PhoenixDragon]

I usually also don't care about join dates on the forum, but in your case, it states that you joined end of 2011, long time after release and the "cleaning" of the forums. If you have not read through the forums, you could not know. Or try google.

The forums aren't the only place they release information. The information I found before preordering the game gave a very accurate impression as to what they were doing with it. That was a bit over a month before it was released.

 

[Oldih]

Sorry, mis-read that. The hazards of posting just before bed. However...



...that is sounding like "many more" were, indeed, not paying attention. Or stubbornly refusing to pay attention, as the case may be.

I recommend you go on and browse some RO2 related threads since around August 2009 when first footage of RO2 was shown, and then all the way to the last minute pre-release info. They've not gone anywhere.

 

[Golf33]

The forums aren't the only place they release information. The information I found before preordering the game gave a very accurate impression as to what they were doing with it. That was a bit over a month before it was released.

That'd be what Cialdini calls "low-balling" then, wouldn't it? Not nice to entice someone into the shop by advertising one thing, then when they get in there they find there's only something inferior actually available.

Not necessarily saying that that's what happened in this case, but it's clearly how some people feel about the game.

For mine, the beta is looking much better than vanilla and I'd have been happy with the game if it had been released in that state.

 

[ductape3]

Honestly its a good game. Its been Bashed on because it released buggy and wasn't what ppl were expecting. While I am definitely looking forward to the release of classic, It is still Easily worth $20 and will only get better.

 

[luciferintears]

The game just never clicked with me.

Not sure why, it just didn't have "it".

Maybe I'm just growing up?

My feelings exactly.

It's pretty sad, RO2 was one of the few games i was looking forward to and now i think im pretty much done with MP games. I only have a few hours to play a week, and so i dislike a lot of the current gimmicks (i.e. spending half a lifetime to grind for weapons).

Plus i find myself less patient when dealing with 12yr old kids whose catchphrase in life is "lolololo u mad bro?" I game to relax, and lately its only been frustration.

I've been having better luck with Singleplayer games; ones where i go with my own pace and dont have to deal with anyone. The games im looking forward to now are all just SP games.

I really think im over MP games. I think Rising Storm will be my last purchase if its going to cost money. Its funny though, i remember when i was a kid, i would say to myself "I'm going to play games even when im older, unlike my dad!" but as time goes on i find myself playing less and less and caring less and less...

 

[PeteAtomic]

lololo U mad bro??

just kidding....

these are just games after all.

 

[SQBsam]

My feelings exactly.

It's pretty sad, RO2 was one of the few games i was looking forward to and now i think im pretty much done with MP games. I only have a few hours to play a week, and so i dislike a lot of the current gimmicks (i.e. spending half a lifetime to grind for weapons).

Plus i find myself less patient when dealing with 12yr old kids whose catchphrase in life is "lolololo u mad bro?" I game to relax, and lately its only been frustration.

I've been having better luck with Singleplayer games; ones where i go with my own pace and dont have to deal with anyone. The games im looking forward to now are all just SP games.

I really think im over MP games. I think Rising Storm will be my last purchase if its going to cost money. Its funny though, i remember when i was a kid, i would say to myself "I'm going to play games even when im older, unlike my dad!" but as time goes on i find myself playing less and less and caring less and less...

Same(ish) here, although RO2 has kept me because of its slow pace. I love the people I meet who play it, seriously fun guys. Although the age has come down a fair bit with RO2 (due to the arcade elements) which changes it quite a bit.

 

[TheRealGunther]

This is the problem that alot of vets have about ro2 myself included.No game will ever replace the original for the simple fact that it was your first RO experience and was original in its design.Even if the game was a Ost with better graphics it wouldn't give you that same feeling of playing Ost for the first few months.

Its just like movies few sequels live up to the original.When I first saw Jurassic park in the theater I was like wow them dinos looked real.After a few sequels i was like wow just more fake dinos wrapped in a crappy plot.

I think im one of the only old Ost player that has anything good to say about HoS.Yes i miss the feeling of Ost which was my favorite fps of all time.Do I wish HoS was more hardcore like Ost sure I do.

Here is the kicker for me what game in the nxt 5-10 years will be anything close to Ost ? the answer is none. HoS is the closest we have and at least they are making efforts to get back to their roots with classic mode.

It will never replace Ost in my mind but its a step in the right direction and for now is the only tactical fps with any hint of realism on the market.(Arma is a sim not a tactical fps btw) So for now it will do and im patient enough to wait for patches to bring it closer to Ost game play.

 

[Torio]

This is the problem that alot of vets have about ro2 myself included.No game will ever replace the original for the simple fact that it was your first RO experience and was original in its design.Even if the game was a Ost with better graphics it wouldn't give you that same feeling of playing Ost for the first few months.

That is why looking back is always a fool's game. THe biggest risk with Classic mode is not failing to recreate that ROOst "magic;" it is discovering we are not the same gamers we were 5 years ago.

I note with some interest that most vets, if they aren't enjoying RO2, are actually playing BF3.

 

[melipone]

Which is very disappointing, that people who were staunch defenders of an indie team then go back to mainstream developers because the indies aren't delivering what they want. Its supposed to be the other way around

For a lot of people RO would have been their first realism game, and stuff like BF/COD might be a natural place to go back to. I mean for WW2 I progressed from BF 1942, COD1 UO Tactical realism mod servers, Day of Defeat mod (not source, that was pretty poor imo). I got into Red Orchestra originally because I wasn't impressed with how Cod2 was dumbing everything down, and modding wasn't supported much so we were left with no "tactical realism" type mods. RO 1 was far enough away from the mainstream to be playable for cod/bf players but not so far that it was like playing a sim.

After RO1 though I can't play any cod or bf games. It might be that I was spoiled by RO but I also very much dislike the console style gameplay, DLC, rehashed games every 6 months. I want to support indie devs too, I don't want the FPS market dominated by the companies we have atm. If I wanted to play a new FPS though what choice do I have? What choice does anyone have who wants to move away from mainstream developers? This is why people turn to indie devs, not to feel like they're making the same mistakes as the mainstream are currently making.

RO2 has allowed me to find Mount & Blade though, which might not have happened otherwise. That multiplayer is something I can enjoy a lot. Otherwise its just old games like CSS. I have a feeling I will end up going futher from RO1 type games though and make the move into ARMA type games. RO2 didn't need to be RO1 with better graphics, but it needed to be in the same genre and not try too hard to copy mainstream trends. Theres a difference between changing direction a bit but still going the way way, rather than almost taking a 180 turn. RO2 with RO1 style gameplay was a step in the right direction though given what happened at launch