What would you rather see for the future of KF2 and the inevitability of KF3?

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What would you rather see implemented now and in the future?

  • Modes/challenges that receive constant love + affection, that excites during the game's lifespan.

    Votes: 3 15.8%
  • In-depth class options that provide further role customization and improve team composition.

    Votes: 10 52.6%
  • A handful of polished maps that stand out from one another, whilst staying grounded thematically.

    Votes: 3 15.8%
  • Limited weapon selection that makes each weapon unique, fun to play, and effective in a meta.

    Votes: 4 21.1%
  • A stronger focus on QoL so that the game is at it's best condition, with a sacrifice of new content.

    Votes: 8 42.1%
  • A high-quality progression system that makes end-game entertaining and worth while.

    Votes: 6 31.6%
  • Less seasonal updates through the year that are higher quality and have a bigger impact on release.

    Votes: 7 36.8%

  • Total voters
    19

Aze

Grizzled Veteran
Mar 19, 2010
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The thing with KF2 is that headshots actually do not increase the damage output you deal outside specific perk bonuses that have an "on headshot" condition. Instead, you're relying on a lower pool of head health more than anything.

In KF1, most weapons dealt 10% more damage on headshots with the exception of most pistols (2x multiplier), the M14 (2.25), Crossbow (4.0), Seal Squeal (3.65 to 4x), knife, machete and Fire Axe (those melee weapons have a 1.25 multiplier)
This is almost entirely true. Only error is that one actually does do more damage with headshots in KF2. Just 10% more, but still.

And the head vs body pool is technically correct; If you have 4x more bodyhealth vs headhealth, you deal 4x more damage on headshot... sorta. Aside from damagetype dissynergies - you also NEED to do nigh perfect continuous headshots to make that bonus even count (since you need to decap the head for it to matter in the first place). That's a huge skill-floor issue KF2 has, which makes it very unwelcoming and "elitist" by nature of its own designs.
 
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OnionBubs

Active member
Apr 27, 2021
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In hindsight, I could've worded my post a little more clearly.

My implication was that the head health/decap mechanics have been a thing for two games thus far, clearly put in via developer intention. The decap mechanics are there as a second form of risk/reward: you have to play more difficult perks/weapons to take advantage of that mechanic, but doing so lets you delete Zeds faster than perks/weapons which can't headshot.

Removing that mechanic for all Zeds (instead of just bosses) is removing a key balancing factor among the perks. Or to put it another way: other than just for giggles, why would one bother playing Sharpshooter vs Demolitionist without this mechanic? You'd have to really incentivize playing the precision perks with this type of setup, like Sharpshooter doing 4x the total health damage per shot compared to Demolitionist to compensate for having to aim.

Obviously this is all an educated guess without Kittenmittens, Yoshiro, or someone else from the dev team coming in to confirm that, but it seems a reasonable inference.

Aside from damagetype dissynergies - you also NEED to do nigh perfect continuous headshots to make that bonus even count (since you need to decap the head for it to matter in the first place).
Not necessarily. Perks like Sharpshooter have 1-shot builds that remove the need for basically anything other than a couple of preparatory headshots for the sake of building Rack 'em Up stacks.

Even perks like Commando are forgiving enough past the first few waves once you start getting better weapons, where some of the nastiest trash Zeds can just die outright to one bodyshot from the AK.

Playing something like M14 Sharp is a different story, but given that M14 Sharp is probably the most demanding perk to reliably perform well with (just like in KF1), it's basically a self-imposed challenge. Actually the hardest one is Support but that's because I'm bad at it because I'm allergic to non-hitscan shotguns but let's just ignore that

That's a huge skill-floor issue KF2 has, which makes it very unwelcoming and "elitist" by nature of its own designs.
Killing Floor 1 had the same thing going on and it was considered a feature rather than a bug.

Regardless, I would argue that's a case of skill ceiling rather than skill floor. This game's skill floor with regards to just killing Zeds is pretty undemanding, considering the chaos perks are basically the game's skill floor in a nutshell, and even the precision perks have received weapons that promote not aiming at the cost of hurting their skill ceiling/potential (here I side-eye the Beluga Beat). You absolutely don't have to play headshot perks to win, but the option is there for those that want to reap the benefits of the appropriate perks.

In fact, I'd say the game has basically a reverse issue where the chaos perks are strong enough at their roles (and then some) to the point where it almost disincentivizes learning to play the precision perks. Some of this can be blamed on certain mechanics (Zed spawning in its entirety; some official maps are just literally squares with spawn points that dump Zeds right on top of the players ,etc.), but if anything, the game's playerbase has leaned more towards chaos perks over time. Just look at the Steam forums and even the suggestions on this forum insinuating that Sharpshooter is one of the weakest perks in the game (a viewpoint which I completely disagree with).

And honestly, TWI is definitely partially to blame for this, but that's a whole other story which I could easily make a long-winded thread. In fact, I just might; it would probably make for a good discussion on its own accord.

Mostly I was talking about the "balancing being a fustercluck" thing you mentioned from your previous post. What part of the game's balancing do you take issues with?

Not that I don't have issues with it but I want to hear other perspectives.



EDIT: I left out the other suggestion from this thread I was going to comment on: I like the seasonal events and I'm perfectly OK with them. HOWEVER--rather than mandating the Zed skins for everyone, I would suggest making the universal holiday Zeds client-side toggle options, except for the relevant stages that would have guaranteed skins. Also, please bring back the Hillbilly skins from KF1 and call it either "Killbilly" or "Psychobilly" because Dad jokes.

This would include stuff like removing the sword-swallower hitboxes because I don't like that as a rule for consistency's sake. Cool programming and it shows how far TWI was able to take this game's engine with regards to hitbox accuracy but god having shots blocked is irritating.
 
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flashn00b

Active member
Feb 1, 2011
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Actually, one thing that i do wanna see in a new killing floor are alternate starting weapons, so as to give players an incentive to prestige. Of course, these weapons would still be accessible to players who don't have any amount of prestiging by visiting the trader pod.
 

CitronVert

Member
May 17, 2015
79
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Lemme explain it with numbers, see if that helps:

<...>

KF2 As I'm suggesting (very roughly, needs balancing ofc)
  • Gorefast has 200 health.
  • Shooting the head deals 4,4x damage.
  • You're still getting heavily rewarded for headshots, regardless of your class and talent choices. Now there's just 100% damagesynergy between all perks.
By making such a change you'd be giving a massive buff to all headshot perks, because they would be less penalized for missed headshots.

Taking your example and damage factors, a sharpshooter lvl 25 with 9mm currently needs 2 headshots to kill gorefast (25*4.4*2=220) or 1 headshot + 7 bodyshots (25*1.1+25*7=202.5). With your change, it would need 1 headshot + 4 bodyshots (25*4.4+25*4=210), so 3 less shots.

There are many thresholds in the game that would be drastically affected by a change like this, for example, one M99 headshot currently leaves a QP alive with 1 hp, meaning to kill it you must arrange to have 1 ReU stack, or shoot it once in the head with 9mm (which can be surprisingly tricky). With your change a bodyshot with 9 mm or bash would be enough to finish it.

I understand where you're coming from, but I'm pretty sure this would be a net downgrade to the sharpshooter balance and maybe require a redesign of thresholds, not going to happen. I could see it becoming especially OP on Gunslinger with Bone Breaker.

While this headshot/bodyshot synergy issue exists I don't consider a big problem for the game. There are other variables that are much more important for synergy, for example, zerk does headshot damage, yet synergizes much worse with headshot perks because it makes zeds stumble and impossible for other perks to aim at their heads.
 
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EveryUsernameIsTaken11111

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 6, 2018
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I'm goinng for better in depth class system because right now, we choose from 2 options every 5 levels and some outright suck.

I don't know anyone that uses stumble because it doesn't do much, and unlike L4D you can't reload when doing the action and I think it's a very poor perk.

Right now firebugs are trash killers, zerkers are their own, and medic heals. The rest are all just there to deal damage.