An option to skip unboxing/crafting animatics. While I do appreciate the work done in creating them, it gets old when you've unboxed several hundred vault crates and or crafted several hundered items.
What would you like to see in Killing Floor 3
- Thread starter Barot8
- Start date
Connecting to item servers takes a few seconds, the animation is there as a cover-up.
You could edit files and disable the animation but you'd still have to wait.
You could edit files and disable the animation but you'd still have to wait.
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Well... What could KF3 truly bring?
That's a real question. What meaningful changes, gameplay-wise most of all, would warrant having a third game? If we're merely getting some texture polish and maybe a few extra guns... It's not worth it. Hell, even adding a new perk or a new zed could be done in KF2 if needed.
Something most devs don't seem to get nowadays is that you cannot just release the same game with a new coat of paint and call it new. Most do it to bring back the fanbase, once the hype dies out. But if there's nothing new, people will stay there for like 3-4 months. Rinse and repeat.
Maybe KF3 could have a new game mode? Maybe it could be more story-focused this time? Maybe it could turn "hero-based shooter", since the characters already got more personnality in KF2. Maybe it could remove the perk system altogether that way. Or keep it, but allow for "mixups" , as in you could become a demolitionist/commando hybrid and all your ARs would have grenade launchers (and you'd have more explosive resistance), or a sharpshooter/berserker hybrid and you'd replace your grenades with hatchets that deals extra HS damage. Or MAYBE it would be the right time to finally polish and implement a real upgrade system?
I'm pulling ideas out of my ass. But the point I want to make is that KF3 should bring something that KF2 cannot. If it's only to get two new perks, one new zed and one new toy for each existing classes... I'd rather avoid another game.
That's a real question. What meaningful changes, gameplay-wise most of all, would warrant having a third game? If we're merely getting some texture polish and maybe a few extra guns... It's not worth it. Hell, even adding a new perk or a new zed could be done in KF2 if needed.
Something most devs don't seem to get nowadays is that you cannot just release the same game with a new coat of paint and call it new. Most do it to bring back the fanbase, once the hype dies out. But if there's nothing new, people will stay there for like 3-4 months. Rinse and repeat.
Maybe KF3 could have a new game mode? Maybe it could be more story-focused this time? Maybe it could turn "hero-based shooter", since the characters already got more personnality in KF2. Maybe it could remove the perk system altogether that way. Or keep it, but allow for "mixups" , as in you could become a demolitionist/commando hybrid and all your ARs would have grenade launchers (and you'd have more explosive resistance), or a sharpshooter/berserker hybrid and you'd replace your grenades with hatchets that deals extra HS damage. Or MAYBE it would be the right time to finally polish and implement a real upgrade system?
I'm pulling ideas out of my ass. But the point I want to make is that KF3 should bring something that KF2 cannot. If it's only to get two new perks, one new zed and one new toy for each existing classes... I'd rather avoid another game.
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If going completely rampant with some brainstorming, here are some thoughts:
Balance ideal kept from start to finish:
If you assign a role for a perk (for example, Commando being mostly a trashkiller), keep the perk that way (meaning, don't give that perk a heavykiller weapon such as the FAL). Imo, I don't mind all perks having some viability against most ZEDs, with obvious strengths and weaknesses - but then make that a thing from the very start.
Simplify the headshot mechanic:
Most shooters have headshots/weakspots deal more damage to a target's singular healthpool. KF doesn't have that, and this seperated head- and bodyhealth mechanic is unnecessarily complicated, and brings bad class synergies. For example; A flamethrowing Firebug contributes overall NOTHING to a Sharpshooter M14-ing a Fleshpound's head. Not only that, it also seperates the pros from the average players way too much, because headshots are so extremely important to land for good takedowns.
Slow down the enemies / make the default player movespeed much faster + enemy fighting fairness:
In KF2, either the enemies could be considered to be too fast (on higher levels) or a player's default movement speed could be seen as too slow (at least default runspeed is like running in mud). Making enemies slower or players faster would make the game, imo, feel much nicer to handle.
I know it's not the same game per se, but Deep Rock Galactic has balanced this kind of thing really well. If you're good, you can use your skills, equipment and powers to dodge basicly every attack. Heavy attacks from the big nasty enemies there are also particularly moreso dodgeable (but also very punishable if they land), and have very clear signs (both visually and audibly) that they are incoming, which makes the game feel MUCH more fair than KF ever has. In the KF-franchise, if you are a bit nooby, a Fleshpound will simply smash you to bits in notime (exacerbated further by the headshot-necessary gameplay - punishing non-pro players even more than necessary). If enemies spawn around corners in DRG, you'll both hear and see it (as they dig out of the environment which is very noticeable), giving you a heads up, rather than just a bull**** stealth attack out of nowhere, like in KF.
Game timeline and active perk powers:
So, this is more a random idea. Imo, KF could take a leap more towards a bit more futuristic timeline. Imo, modern day weaponry, while some certainly have appeal, is imo done to death. With a slightly more futuristic setting, you can have way more creative weapons and equipment (and still have a lot of inspiration from modern day weaponry ofc). The Horzine stuff is already rather futuristic, so why not go further in that direction?
And with that in mind, something that KF3 could bring as a whole new game mechanic: Active perk powers (made sense of lorewise by the players not just being random mercenary survivors, but mercenaries which have also agreed to be tampered with to grant them unique abilities to help them fight the evergrowing threat of the ZEDs). Random ideas, nothing serious:
* Firebug -> Combustion (meaning instantly make all burning enemies explode, dealing the remaining dot instantly and stunning them)
* Berserker -> Charge (at Zeds or allies)
* SWAT -> Energy Shield (a frontal barrier for tanking, so you don't have to rely on just armor for this perk's survival niche)
* Commando -> Hypervision (calls out invisible enemies and lets him see enemies through walls)
* Demolitionist -> Hover (to easier launch your projectiles without having your teammates in the way, or break high falls - maybe even a brief movespeed boost)
* Sharpshooter -> Autoaim (think railgun's lockon, but immediate)
* Medic -> Healing Pulse (think Airborne Agent, but not relying on RNG for it)
* Gunslinger -> Ultrafeed (shoot from your ammoreserves, temporarily bypassing the need to reload)
* Support -> Nanite Ammosupply (something you put down which everyone can grab ammo from)
* "Shadow" -> Stealth (selfexplanatory) and/or Magnetic Pull (pulls in all your nearby projectile ammo, like arrows, thrown blades etc, which could be a big thing for this martial artist-esque perk, think a sneaky hybrid of Berserker and Sharpshooter)
* "Engineer" -> Stasis Wall (a barrier you project, which enemies walk slowly through - and this perk could be the oft suggested "Scientist", which basicly uses high-tech weapons (akin to current Survivalist's specific ones), mainly for various supportive uses, like freezing and EMP etc).
Stuff like that.
EDIT:
Cosmetics and Microtransactions:
First, cosmetics. Something that I hate that KF2 has done (way more than KF1 did) is with the silly cosmetics. I mean, some humour is fine. Butyikes is it way over the top in KF2. Humongous cowboy hats is not only ugly, blocking your allies' vision, but it's also not funny whatsoever. Then there's the pajamases (spelling?). The Clot-backpack. And so on. Urgh. Please, can KF3 try to focus on being a BIT more serious than its predecessors? A lot of the cosmetics, like a bunch of the Cyberpunk stuff, was actually quite cool, so why not stick to that? And if humour is to be added, at least try not to make it so tacky and over-the-top, yeah?
And then, for cosmetic slots. Why is there only 3 attachment slots, when there's obvously more than 3 spots to place cosmetic on your characters (like back, arms, mouthpiece, face, top-of-the-head - and likely more that I can't think of right now).
Now, in regards to Microtransactions. I'm fine with Microtransactions under two very simple conditions:
1) No RNG - So lootboxes are a no-go. Gambling should NOT be promoted in videogames whatsoever. It's a low blow to people with potential for gambling addictions. I'm not one of those myself, but I know many people who are. If you want a skin, it should only be able to be bought straight up. It's fair, it's clean, and not only is it seen as the "good form" of microtransaction business, it's seemingly also the one version of microtransaction which people are the most willing to support and spend money on.
2) No game advantages - In other words weapons (or worse, perks!) should NOT be put behind any microtransaction barriers (this includes deluxe or crossgame "promos" like the Zweihander and Road Redeemer are guily of). I'm fine with stuff like XP-boosters and such, because with those the only thing you save is time. But weapons and things that have a permanent change to your game and gives you a potential advantage in the game are very icky being money-only.
I'll stop here to keep the wall of text not too massive...
Balance ideal kept from start to finish:
If you assign a role for a perk (for example, Commando being mostly a trashkiller), keep the perk that way (meaning, don't give that perk a heavykiller weapon such as the FAL). Imo, I don't mind all perks having some viability against most ZEDs, with obvious strengths and weaknesses - but then make that a thing from the very start.
Simplify the headshot mechanic:
Most shooters have headshots/weakspots deal more damage to a target's singular healthpool. KF doesn't have that, and this seperated head- and bodyhealth mechanic is unnecessarily complicated, and brings bad class synergies. For example; A flamethrowing Firebug contributes overall NOTHING to a Sharpshooter M14-ing a Fleshpound's head. Not only that, it also seperates the pros from the average players way too much, because headshots are so extremely important to land for good takedowns.
Slow down the enemies / make the default player movespeed much faster + enemy fighting fairness:
In KF2, either the enemies could be considered to be too fast (on higher levels) or a player's default movement speed could be seen as too slow (at least default runspeed is like running in mud). Making enemies slower or players faster would make the game, imo, feel much nicer to handle.
I know it's not the same game per se, but Deep Rock Galactic has balanced this kind of thing really well. If you're good, you can use your skills, equipment and powers to dodge basicly every attack. Heavy attacks from the big nasty enemies there are also particularly moreso dodgeable (but also very punishable if they land), and have very clear signs (both visually and audibly) that they are incoming, which makes the game feel MUCH more fair than KF ever has. In the KF-franchise, if you are a bit nooby, a Fleshpound will simply smash you to bits in notime (exacerbated further by the headshot-necessary gameplay - punishing non-pro players even more than necessary). If enemies spawn around corners in DRG, you'll both hear and see it (as they dig out of the environment which is very noticeable), giving you a heads up, rather than just a bull**** stealth attack out of nowhere, like in KF.
Game timeline and active perk powers:
So, this is more a random idea. Imo, KF could take a leap more towards a bit more futuristic timeline. Imo, modern day weaponry, while some certainly have appeal, is imo done to death. With a slightly more futuristic setting, you can have way more creative weapons and equipment (and still have a lot of inspiration from modern day weaponry ofc). The Horzine stuff is already rather futuristic, so why not go further in that direction?
And with that in mind, something that KF3 could bring as a whole new game mechanic: Active perk powers (made sense of lorewise by the players not just being random mercenary survivors, but mercenaries which have also agreed to be tampered with to grant them unique abilities to help them fight the evergrowing threat of the ZEDs). Random ideas, nothing serious:
* Firebug -> Combustion (meaning instantly make all burning enemies explode, dealing the remaining dot instantly and stunning them)
* Berserker -> Charge (at Zeds or allies)
* SWAT -> Energy Shield (a frontal barrier for tanking, so you don't have to rely on just armor for this perk's survival niche)
* Commando -> Hypervision (calls out invisible enemies and lets him see enemies through walls)
* Demolitionist -> Hover (to easier launch your projectiles without having your teammates in the way, or break high falls - maybe even a brief movespeed boost)
* Sharpshooter -> Autoaim (think railgun's lockon, but immediate)
* Medic -> Healing Pulse (think Airborne Agent, but not relying on RNG for it)
* Gunslinger -> Ultrafeed (shoot from your ammoreserves, temporarily bypassing the need to reload)
* Support -> Nanite Ammosupply (something you put down which everyone can grab ammo from)
* "Shadow" -> Stealth (selfexplanatory) and/or Magnetic Pull (pulls in all your nearby projectile ammo, like arrows, thrown blades etc, which could be a big thing for this martial artist-esque perk, think a sneaky hybrid of Berserker and Sharpshooter)
* "Engineer" -> Stasis Wall (a barrier you project, which enemies walk slowly through - and this perk could be the oft suggested "Scientist", which basicly uses high-tech weapons (akin to current Survivalist's specific ones), mainly for various supportive uses, like freezing and EMP etc).
Stuff like that.
EDIT:
Cosmetics and Microtransactions:
First, cosmetics. Something that I hate that KF2 has done (way more than KF1 did) is with the silly cosmetics. I mean, some humour is fine. Butyikes is it way over the top in KF2. Humongous cowboy hats is not only ugly, blocking your allies' vision, but it's also not funny whatsoever. Then there's the pajamases (spelling?). The Clot-backpack. And so on. Urgh. Please, can KF3 try to focus on being a BIT more serious than its predecessors? A lot of the cosmetics, like a bunch of the Cyberpunk stuff, was actually quite cool, so why not stick to that? And if humour is to be added, at least try not to make it so tacky and over-the-top, yeah?
And then, for cosmetic slots. Why is there only 3 attachment slots, when there's obvously more than 3 spots to place cosmetic on your characters (like back, arms, mouthpiece, face, top-of-the-head - and likely more that I can't think of right now).
Now, in regards to Microtransactions. I'm fine with Microtransactions under two very simple conditions:
1) No RNG - So lootboxes are a no-go. Gambling should NOT be promoted in videogames whatsoever. It's a low blow to people with potential for gambling addictions. I'm not one of those myself, but I know many people who are. If you want a skin, it should only be able to be bought straight up. It's fair, it's clean, and not only is it seen as the "good form" of microtransaction business, it's seemingly also the one version of microtransaction which people are the most willing to support and spend money on.
2) No game advantages - In other words weapons (or worse, perks!) should NOT be put behind any microtransaction barriers (this includes deluxe or crossgame "promos" like the Zweihander and Road Redeemer are guily of). I'm fine with stuff like XP-boosters and such, because with those the only thing you save is time. But weapons and things that have a permanent change to your game and gives you a potential advantage in the game are very icky being money-only.
I'll stop here to keep the wall of text not too massive...
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>Definitely yes for the balance ideal ! I was saddened that the berserker went from the "homemade weaponry specialist" to the melee perk once again.. Only to keep the VLAD and now get the Teslauncher. Same thing for most perks actually : at that point, you could probably play any team comp and still win.
>Haven't thought about the headshot mechanic, but you're right! That's definitely something not only strange but counterintuitive. It should get reworked entirely.
>Enemy fighting fairness however is a bit of a stretch for me. KF never struck me as a particularly hard game. However, it is true that it makes you pay your mistakes VERY HARD. You better NOT get boxed or you probably won't survive. You better look where you're running as a siren may have spawn on that side of the map. You better avoid getting sent into a horde of zeds by the raging fleshpound which punched you at the other side of the map... There are countless examples. But IMO, the game also have lots of elements to help the player. Think about it : everyone keeps getting mad at EDARs... Personally, I call that a free EMP. If you kill them at the right time, they're a blessing. Same goes for the kamikaze attack of the husk ! Hell, Fleshpounds are big and scary, but you can destroy them with explosives. Crawlers are pests, but nothing a rapid-firing gun or a flamethrower can't solve. I don't want to be the Dark Souls **** who calls players to "git gud", but let's just admit that there's nothing wrong with a bit of challenge and learning curve. It's perfectly normal to suck at the beginning. The first step to improvement is failure.
(Besides a few cheap tricks, of course. Like having two fleshpounds and three scrakes spawning on you !)
(Also, up until Suicidal, the game is really not that difficult... c'mon)
>I don't know about the futuristic weaponry. I know I wouldn't mind it, I'm a sci-fi addict myself. And I really dig the designs they thought of in KF2. But I know a lot of people are gun-nuts, even more so regarding Tripwire games (the handling of their guns have been a staple of their games). Hell, there has been some complaints about the vast amount of fictional firearms in KF2 compared to the first game... So yeah, I don't know about that one.
>Active perk powers, shown that way, remind me more of the suit powers from Call of Duty Advanced Warfare rather than "ultimates" in hero-based shooters...And that's definitely a good thing. I believe it would be neat to grant even more specific things to each and every perk. But ultimates are overdone at that point. And there's no point in having an ultimate capacity if you don't have other capacities to begin with.
>Haven't thought about the headshot mechanic, but you're right! That's definitely something not only strange but counterintuitive. It should get reworked entirely.
>Enemy fighting fairness however is a bit of a stretch for me. KF never struck me as a particularly hard game. However, it is true that it makes you pay your mistakes VERY HARD. You better NOT get boxed or you probably won't survive. You better look where you're running as a siren may have spawn on that side of the map. You better avoid getting sent into a horde of zeds by the raging fleshpound which punched you at the other side of the map... There are countless examples. But IMO, the game also have lots of elements to help the player. Think about it : everyone keeps getting mad at EDARs... Personally, I call that a free EMP. If you kill them at the right time, they're a blessing. Same goes for the kamikaze attack of the husk ! Hell, Fleshpounds are big and scary, but you can destroy them with explosives. Crawlers are pests, but nothing a rapid-firing gun or a flamethrower can't solve. I don't want to be the Dark Souls **** who calls players to "git gud", but let's just admit that there's nothing wrong with a bit of challenge and learning curve. It's perfectly normal to suck at the beginning. The first step to improvement is failure.
(Besides a few cheap tricks, of course. Like having two fleshpounds and three scrakes spawning on you !)
(Also, up until Suicidal, the game is really not that difficult... c'mon)
>I don't know about the futuristic weaponry. I know I wouldn't mind it, I'm a sci-fi addict myself. And I really dig the designs they thought of in KF2. But I know a lot of people are gun-nuts, even more so regarding Tripwire games (the handling of their guns have been a staple of their games). Hell, there has been some complaints about the vast amount of fictional firearms in KF2 compared to the first game... So yeah, I don't know about that one.
>Active perk powers, shown that way, remind me more of the suit powers from Call of Duty Advanced Warfare rather than "ultimates" in hero-based shooters...And that's definitely a good thing. I believe it would be neat to grant even more specific things to each and every perk. But ultimates are overdone at that point. And there's no point in having an ultimate capacity if you don't have other capacities to begin with.
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> About the balancing - Just for clarification, I wouldn't mind if all perks could tackle any enemy, which they basicly all can nowadays. But, as was my main point, then that should be a thing from the beginning.
In regards to the Berserker being the "homemade weaponry specialist", I feel that was doomed to fail pretty quickly, as that greatly limits weapon creativity - but I don't think it needs to be 100% melee-focused either (I can see throwing axes and such being added - something that would give a way better utility to the perk than the Fire Axe would - which feels like it was added just for nostalgia's sake).
If anything, the Survivalist (as per its very name and the makeshift-esque knife it has) would fit better to have the homemade stuff as its specific weaponry (while still being a jack-of-all-trades and wielding any weapon, mind you). I mean, the name Survivalist to me just outright screams "use whatever necessary to survive", so being able to use ANY weapon + having its unique weapons be homemade weapons made on the go fits like a T. But instead the Survivalist's specific weapons are the HIGH-TECH stuff? That's so ridiculously counter-intuitive, and those weapons would fit way better on a new high-tech based perk instead.
> Yeah, the headshot mechanic is basicly the bane of perk synergies and really needs to disappear. Having enemies by chance walk around (now harmlessly) after killing them with a weaker headshot could still be kept as a novelty feature of course.
> That's the thing though: The game is too bipolar (arguably mostly to blame on the headshot mechanics, actually). It's either ridiculously easy, or make a mistake and it fails ultraquick. If nothing else, changing the headshot mechanic alone could probably go a long way to not only make it a bit more noob-friendly, but also to make the difficulty less bipolar.
Also I don't really mind KF2 being more chaotic than KF1, as it does keep the game a bit more . But I still feel like the players (when playing perks without movespeed boosts) feel so ridiculously slow, and could be improved a bit.
And I agreed, challenge is important (especially in a PvE game), but challenge can be done MUCH more fairly than how KF has done it: Rage-spawn, stealthy around-the-corner-spawns, headshots-or-do-nothing mechanics, completely unavoidable near-instakill boss melee attacks, instakill boss rockets/lightning beam etc. It honestly has a LOT of unfair bull**** to toss at you.
And yes, it's not very hard until you're on Suicidal+. But that still doesn't take away the cheapness of its "difficulty" that does exist.
> Oh, it wouldn't be all plasma and lasers and stuff. But it could take a break from having to use specific modern day weapons so heavily, so creativity can flow a bit. As an example, Deep Rock Galactic has many bullet-based weapons, one of them being the rifle M1000 Classic which can be used either as a spammy battle rifle, or as a light pseudo-sniper rifle, just based on tapping or holding the trigger. And it looks and sounds VERY much like the M1 Garand, including having the "PING" on reload! To me, that's the perfect blend: Inspiration from classic weapons in regards to aesthetic and sound, but "futuristic" in the sense that you can get creative with the gun's mechanics and numerical values.
So yeah, if you do it right, it can please both the scifi nerds and the gun-nuts! I mean, I'm both of them myself
> Yeah the active perk powers are meant to further emphasize the perk's role in a rather frequent manner (rather than being "ultimates" as you put it). The Berserker often charging in to hack and slash the enemies, the Medic healing, the Sharpshooter going for weakspots etc. In fact, having powers like this could be a great thing to not only keep the game on its currently more chaotic side of things (hence suggesting a weakpoint autoaim for the Sharpshooter), but it would also be a clear reason why a KF3 would be made in the first place.
As for "grant even more specific things to each and every perk", if you by chance mean giving more than 1 active power to each perk, I've actually tried to come up with 2 active powers for each perk. Neither of them would be ultimates, just "basic" enhancers to solidify their roles and utilities. I feel having ultimates would be too extreme for a game franchise like Killing Floor.
EDIT: I also wanted to add 2 more things in my original suggestions post above (in regards to Cosmetics/MTX)
In regards to the Berserker being the "homemade weaponry specialist", I feel that was doomed to fail pretty quickly, as that greatly limits weapon creativity - but I don't think it needs to be 100% melee-focused either (I can see throwing axes and such being added - something that would give a way better utility to the perk than the Fire Axe would - which feels like it was added just for nostalgia's sake).
If anything, the Survivalist (as per its very name and the makeshift-esque knife it has) would fit better to have the homemade stuff as its specific weaponry (while still being a jack-of-all-trades and wielding any weapon, mind you). I mean, the name Survivalist to me just outright screams "use whatever necessary to survive", so being able to use ANY weapon + having its unique weapons be homemade weapons made on the go fits like a T. But instead the Survivalist's specific weapons are the HIGH-TECH stuff? That's so ridiculously counter-intuitive, and those weapons would fit way better on a new high-tech based perk instead.
> Yeah, the headshot mechanic is basicly the bane of perk synergies and really needs to disappear. Having enemies by chance walk around (now harmlessly) after killing them with a weaker headshot could still be kept as a novelty feature of course.
> That's the thing though: The game is too bipolar (arguably mostly to blame on the headshot mechanics, actually). It's either ridiculously easy, or make a mistake and it fails ultraquick. If nothing else, changing the headshot mechanic alone could probably go a long way to not only make it a bit more noob-friendly, but also to make the difficulty less bipolar.
Also I don't really mind KF2 being more chaotic than KF1, as it does keep the game a bit more . But I still feel like the players (when playing perks without movespeed boosts) feel so ridiculously slow, and could be improved a bit.
And I agreed, challenge is important (especially in a PvE game), but challenge can be done MUCH more fairly than how KF has done it: Rage-spawn, stealthy around-the-corner-spawns, headshots-or-do-nothing mechanics, completely unavoidable near-instakill boss melee attacks, instakill boss rockets/lightning beam etc. It honestly has a LOT of unfair bull**** to toss at you.
And yes, it's not very hard until you're on Suicidal+. But that still doesn't take away the cheapness of its "difficulty" that does exist.
> Oh, it wouldn't be all plasma and lasers and stuff. But it could take a break from having to use specific modern day weapons so heavily, so creativity can flow a bit. As an example, Deep Rock Galactic has many bullet-based weapons, one of them being the rifle M1000 Classic which can be used either as a spammy battle rifle, or as a light pseudo-sniper rifle, just based on tapping or holding the trigger. And it looks and sounds VERY much like the M1 Garand, including having the "PING" on reload! To me, that's the perfect blend: Inspiration from classic weapons in regards to aesthetic and sound, but "futuristic" in the sense that you can get creative with the gun's mechanics and numerical values.
So yeah, if you do it right, it can please both the scifi nerds and the gun-nuts! I mean, I'm both of them myself
> Yeah the active perk powers are meant to further emphasize the perk's role in a rather frequent manner (rather than being "ultimates" as you put it). The Berserker often charging in to hack and slash the enemies, the Medic healing, the Sharpshooter going for weakspots etc. In fact, having powers like this could be a great thing to not only keep the game on its currently more chaotic side of things (hence suggesting a weakpoint autoaim for the Sharpshooter), but it would also be a clear reason why a KF3 would be made in the first place.
As for "grant even more specific things to each and every perk", if you by chance mean giving more than 1 active power to each perk, I've actually tried to come up with 2 active powers for each perk. Neither of them would be ultimates, just "basic" enhancers to solidify their roles and utilities. I feel having ultimates would be too extreme for a game franchise like Killing Floor.
EDIT: I also wanted to add 2 more things in my original suggestions post above (in regards to Cosmetics/MTX)
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>Let us agree to disagree then ! I kinda learned to accept it, but I would have loved if they kept perks as separate to each other as possible. I wasn't fond of crossperked guns to begin with, but now that each and every perk has a weapon for everything... Your choice of perk pretty much stems from personal preferences at that point.
>That is very true. Actually that's how I thought the survivalist perk would be and I wouldn't have been so salty if they just took out the VLAD out of the zerk's hands to give it to the survivalist. It would have been a much more fitting "theme" and said perk could have had pretty much any kind of gun made of scrap. A shotgun? A rifle? A bazooka? You name it. Give it a look made of scraps and you're good to go ! And I obviously agree for the high-tech idea... Having one, or even two new perks would have been great (the scientist and the scrapped Martial Artist)
> Again, very little to add. I agree. The game doesn't need to become easier...Just fairer.
> So kinda like Call of Duty made a futuristic M1 Garand and MP40 too? Uh... I guess it could work. Again, I probably wouldn't mind it. As long as my gun goes "shooty-pew-pew", I'm happy. And I tend to enjoy weapons that are a bit less common that your average AK47 and M4. But again, I don't know if that would sit very well within a specific part of the playerbase... They may be a minority, but they aren't afraid to tell that they'd want more "realistic and life-accurate" guns!
>I didn't think of anything special by saying "granting more specific things to each and every perk" ! My idea is only to make them feel very different. As in you couldn't use the firebug to play the role of the SWAT. Or the support to handle the job of a sharpshooter. I'm obviously pushing the thing a bit far, but I would love to have proper "classes" with their own things rather than just "this one uses shotgun, this one uses assault rifles, both can deal with anything thrown at them". Of course,the Killing Floor franchise will always be trigger happy. But I'd go as far as to say that it would be beneficial to MERGE some perks together to have them feel very different from one another. And active perk powers are a nice step towards that.
> I couldn't agree more about the tone! That's actually something many microtransaction-heavy games struggle with... they keep adding more and more silly stuff. Bright camo paints, stupid dances, ridiculous outfits... It's all fun and games, but it really hinders the tone you want your game to have. A little is okay (kinda like the Chickenator in KF1, or just the fact Foster has a gas mask in addition to his shirt and tie...), but it really got way out of hand. With little themes to link them all together. It doesn't help that you don't get that many items in KF2, and whenever you do... It's either something bad, something you already have or, more often than not, BOTH! Zedconomy really needs a huge overhaul in the next game.
>And same thing for the microtransactions... Can't believe lootboxes are still a thing despite being outlawed in a few countries. Including mine! But I suppose our government didn't care that much. But even without being deemed illegal, that's just totally NOT user-friendly.
>That is very true. Actually that's how I thought the survivalist perk would be and I wouldn't have been so salty if they just took out the VLAD out of the zerk's hands to give it to the survivalist. It would have been a much more fitting "theme" and said perk could have had pretty much any kind of gun made of scrap. A shotgun? A rifle? A bazooka? You name it. Give it a look made of scraps and you're good to go ! And I obviously agree for the high-tech idea... Having one, or even two new perks would have been great (the scientist and the scrapped Martial Artist)
> Again, very little to add. I agree. The game doesn't need to become easier...Just fairer.
> So kinda like Call of Duty made a futuristic M1 Garand and MP40 too? Uh... I guess it could work. Again, I probably wouldn't mind it. As long as my gun goes "shooty-pew-pew", I'm happy. And I tend to enjoy weapons that are a bit less common that your average AK47 and M4. But again, I don't know if that would sit very well within a specific part of the playerbase... They may be a minority, but they aren't afraid to tell that they'd want more "realistic and life-accurate" guns!
>I didn't think of anything special by saying "granting more specific things to each and every perk" ! My idea is only to make them feel very different. As in you couldn't use the firebug to play the role of the SWAT. Or the support to handle the job of a sharpshooter. I'm obviously pushing the thing a bit far, but I would love to have proper "classes" with their own things rather than just "this one uses shotgun, this one uses assault rifles, both can deal with anything thrown at them". Of course,the Killing Floor franchise will always be trigger happy. But I'd go as far as to say that it would be beneficial to MERGE some perks together to have them feel very different from one another. And active perk powers are a nice step towards that.
> I couldn't agree more about the tone! That's actually something many microtransaction-heavy games struggle with... they keep adding more and more silly stuff. Bright camo paints, stupid dances, ridiculous outfits... It's all fun and games, but it really hinders the tone you want your game to have. A little is okay (kinda like the Chickenator in KF1, or just the fact Foster has a gas mask in addition to his shirt and tie...), but it really got way out of hand. With little themes to link them all together. It doesn't help that you don't get that many items in KF2, and whenever you do... It's either something bad, something you already have or, more often than not, BOTH! Zedconomy really needs a huge overhaul in the next game.
>And same thing for the microtransactions... Can't believe lootboxes are still a thing despite being outlawed in a few countries. Including mine! But I suppose our government didn't care that much. But even without being deemed illegal, that's just totally NOT user-friendly.
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> We can most certainly agreed to disagreed As a further note though; I agreed that perks should have still have clear strengths and weaknesses.
> Yup. I'm actually quite sad that there's been no intention to add the Scientist or Martial Artist. They have so much potential to cool niches or styles:
*** Scientist could be offensive support (Freezethrower being a good guideline for the idea), maybe even an off-healer (considering there's plenty of trashkillers, heavykillers, and some tanks, but only one true healer). Fits a LOT better than the Survivalist to be the one focusing on using the Horzine-based experimental weapons.
*** Martial Artist (or as they had called it internally: "Urban Ninja") could be a unique "agile and sneaky" hybrid of Berserker and Sharpshooter. On one hand swiftly using melee weapons which are more finesse-based and sometimes with more range (Kusarigama, Nunchucks and other similar cool "bendy" weapons, crossperk the Katana, various spears and polearms), and complement it with midranged weaponry (Bolas, which could be explosive or elemental, Shuriken and other throwable stuff, Blowdarts, Longbow, maybe crossperk the Crossbow, throwable discs) and even a combo of both (like Claws with a dart-launcher, and similar creative weapons).
There's just so much untapped potential there!
*** For KF3, I'd not be beyond having a perk that deals with psionic stuff (Mind control, head explosions, telekinesis etc). But that's maybe going a bit too far?
> Never played the Call of Duty games, but after a quick look: Sure, something similar to those. And hey, if the gun-nuts complain, I'd personally just direct them to play KF2 (which actually I feel is a game that should still be kept alive after KF3's release, partially cuz of the potential timeline differences and thus atmosphere differences).
> Yes, I too feel that active powers can really help clarify their roles and intended uses! While we maybe don't fully agreed on the "harddrawn roles"-thing, I still wanna say that it's interesting that you mention the perk-merge ideas! When I was brainstorming KF3 ideas by myself, I found that diversifying a perk's weaponry beyond "Commando uses Assault Rifles" was an important thing to emphasize, to make a perk feel less repetitive - something I think perk merging could help alleviate. As a good example: Contrast the "uses X weapontype" vs the "uses X elemental/role type" - the elementally/role focused ones (like Firebug, Demolitionist, Medic) I feel have WAY more interesting weapon variety than most of the weapontype-based perks (mostly so for the Commando with all ARs, and SWAT with all SMGs). Crossperking helped some perks with that imo (The lever-actions for Gunslinger), and it could still be expanded upon (like the SG500 and Benelli M4 for SWAT?)
To me, broadening a perk beyond just a specifc weapontype is something I'd like to do very much, if possible. Just to give you some look into various thought that I've pondered (and abandoned, rinse repeat):
* Commando could merge with Gunslinger to get pistols too, and make pistols more realistically not all just "heavyhitters" (or at least more focused on killing mediumsized enemies, rather than for toppling Scrakes/FPs). Somehow I just feel pistols could fit the Commando (the heavier hitting ones could be for Sharpshooter). Also, give it potential "scouting" tools or sorts?
* Support could, rather than just be all about shotguns, be focused on weaponry that shoots in cones and "lines" (Like, imagine something like the Line Gun from Dead Space) and more welding stuff (melty nail-launching weapons, which can weld doors from afar), breaking doors (underslung doorbreaches, doubling as a melee mega-bayonet, basicly). And/or merge the perk with SWAT - at the very least the tanking / battering ram stuff - to give it a more close-range protector kind of feel. If it doesn't get the SMGs, then the Commando could get those.
* Gunslinger (if not merged with another perk) would be interesting if it got something that wasn't just shooty shooty run run. Think, making it some "rallying military officer", with beneficial auras or whatnot. I feel this perk needs more to it than just pistols, at least (if kept as a seperate perk).
* Demolitionist could also get some mild welding prowess, but with more focus on setting explosive traps (something KF2 already delved into)? Maybe even have a new enemy which plants a trap on the map, with the Demolitionist being the far best/safest one at dismantling them?
... I'm rambling now, sorry...
> And I don't even mind the silly dances (those are at least only temporary distractions)! I just feel that the game has taken a very... childish(?) turn, which doesn't fit its really dark theme. I'm not saying it needs to be "grimdark" or anything, but at least tone down the cringe, please! And Foster having a gas mask, shirt and tie... what's wrong with that? He just seems like a survivalist to me.
> Yeah, it strikes me as rather odd that the lootboxes are allowed to stay to be honest. Sure, there's the "eventually guaranteed" thing added to some of it, but it's still gambling to me.
...
Sorry for another wall of text! xD
As a further note though; I agreed that perks should have still have clear strengths and weaknesses.> Yup. I'm actually quite sad that there's been no intention to add the Scientist or Martial Artist. They have so much potential to cool niches or styles:
*** Scientist could be offensive support (Freezethrower being a good guideline for the idea), maybe even an off-healer (considering there's plenty of trashkillers, heavykillers, and some tanks, but only one true healer). Fits a LOT better than the Survivalist to be the one focusing on using the Horzine-based experimental weapons.
*** Martial Artist (or as they had called it internally: "Urban Ninja") could be a unique "agile and sneaky" hybrid of Berserker and Sharpshooter. On one hand swiftly using melee weapons which are more finesse-based and sometimes with more range (Kusarigama, Nunchucks and other similar cool "bendy" weapons, crossperk the Katana, various spears and polearms), and complement it with midranged weaponry (Bolas, which could be explosive or elemental, Shuriken and other throwable stuff, Blowdarts, Longbow, maybe crossperk the Crossbow, throwable discs) and even a combo of both (like Claws with a dart-launcher, and similar creative weapons).
There's just so much untapped potential there!
*** For KF3, I'd not be beyond having a perk that deals with psionic stuff (Mind control, head explosions, telekinesis etc). But that's maybe going a bit too far?
> Never played the Call of Duty games, but after a quick look: Sure, something similar to those. And hey, if the gun-nuts complain, I'd personally just direct them to play KF2 (which actually I feel is a game that should still be kept alive after KF3's release, partially cuz of the potential timeline differences and thus atmosphere differences).
> Yes, I too feel that active powers can really help clarify their roles and intended uses! While we maybe don't fully agreed on the "harddrawn roles"-thing, I still wanna say that it's interesting that you mention the perk-merge ideas! When I was brainstorming KF3 ideas by myself, I found that diversifying a perk's weaponry beyond "Commando uses Assault Rifles" was an important thing to emphasize, to make a perk feel less repetitive - something I think perk merging could help alleviate. As a good example: Contrast the "uses X weapontype" vs the "uses X elemental/role type" - the elementally/role focused ones (like Firebug, Demolitionist, Medic) I feel have WAY more interesting weapon variety than most of the weapontype-based perks (mostly so for the Commando with all ARs, and SWAT with all SMGs). Crossperking helped some perks with that imo (The lever-actions for Gunslinger), and it could still be expanded upon (like the SG500 and Benelli M4 for SWAT?)
To me, broadening a perk beyond just a specifc weapontype is something I'd like to do very much, if possible. Just to give you some look into various thought that I've pondered (and abandoned, rinse repeat):
* Commando could merge with Gunslinger to get pistols too, and make pistols more realistically not all just "heavyhitters" (or at least more focused on killing mediumsized enemies, rather than for toppling Scrakes/FPs). Somehow I just feel pistols could fit the Commando (the heavier hitting ones could be for Sharpshooter). Also, give it potential "scouting" tools or sorts?
* Support could, rather than just be all about shotguns, be focused on weaponry that shoots in cones and "lines" (Like, imagine something like the Line Gun from Dead Space) and more welding stuff (melty nail-launching weapons, which can weld doors from afar), breaking doors (underslung doorbreaches, doubling as a melee mega-bayonet, basicly). And/or merge the perk with SWAT - at the very least the tanking / battering ram stuff - to give it a more close-range protector kind of feel. If it doesn't get the SMGs, then the Commando could get those.
* Gunslinger (if not merged with another perk) would be interesting if it got something that wasn't just shooty shooty run run. Think, making it some "rallying military officer", with beneficial auras or whatnot. I feel this perk needs more to it than just pistols, at least (if kept as a seperate perk).
* Demolitionist could also get some mild welding prowess, but with more focus on setting explosive traps (something KF2 already delved into)? Maybe even have a new enemy which plants a trap on the map, with the Demolitionist being the far best/safest one at dismantling them?
... I'm rambling now, sorry...
> And I don't even mind the silly dances (those are at least only temporary distractions)! I just feel that the game has taken a very... childish(?) turn, which doesn't fit its really dark theme. I'm not saying it needs to be "grimdark" or anything, but at least tone down the cringe, please! And Foster having a gas mask, shirt and tie... what's wrong with that? He just seems like a survivalist to me.
> Yeah, it strikes me as rather odd that the lootboxes are allowed to stay to be honest. Sure, there's the "eventually guaranteed" thing added to some of it, but it's still gambling to me.
...
Sorry for another wall of text! xD
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In a recent interview with PC Gamer Tripwire started to hint waht's after Chiv 2
Tripwire is thinking about what's next for Maneater and the Killing Floor series
At the PC Gaming Show, president John Gibson hinted that early talks are underway for a new Killing Floor.
www.pcgamer.com
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A few more new enemies. Maybe an option to upgrade your weapons like adding attachments to it like more powerful scopes, larger magazine cartridges and bayonets for close melee combat.
Even better a few more new enemies to deal with and maybe some new bosses.
Even better a few more new enemies to deal with and maybe some new bosses.
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That's... exactly what someone else sent me on another topic. And my answer is the same : it means jack**** so far.
It could be another slew of updates for KF2. It could be yet another spin-off. Hell... It could even be something as trivial as merch or something. It certainly doesn't confirm a future game.
Don't get me wrong : even though I don't see anything new that KF3 would truly bring, besides maybe going forward with some half-assed ideas like weekly outbreaks, a story mode or a brand new upgrade system... I would LOVE to have my expectations subverted. But so far... I don't think we'll get anything besides new updates every 3-4 months.
Speaking of which, it's probably asking too much for a five-years-old game...But it would be nice to change up the pace a little bit. As in : do something else for each update. I'm someone who LOVES to be surprised and honestly, besides a funky gun once in a while (like the blunderbuss or the HRG buckshot), it's been something like...two years, since we've seen something truly wild?
And besides, Maneater just released. Even if KF3 is in the pipes, it probably won't release until 2-3 years.
It could be another slew of updates for KF2. It could be yet another spin-off. Hell... It could even be something as trivial as merch or something. It certainly doesn't confirm a future game.
Don't get me wrong : even though I don't see anything new that KF3 would truly bring, besides maybe going forward with some half-assed ideas like weekly outbreaks, a story mode or a brand new upgrade system... I would LOVE to have my expectations subverted. But so far... I don't think we'll get anything besides new updates every 3-4 months.
Speaking of which, it's probably asking too much for a five-years-old game...But it would be nice to change up the pace a little bit. As in : do something else for each update. I'm someone who LOVES to be surprised and honestly, besides a funky gun once in a while (like the blunderbuss or the HRG buckshot), it's been something like...two years, since we've seen something truly wild?
And besides, Maneater just released. Even if KF3 is in the pipes, it probably won't release until 2-3 years.
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What game changes would justify a third iteration of KF? I would suggest changing how the game is played. How about making it a story mode coop style like L4D series wherein Zed Hunters must fight their way to a number of save havens to accomplish some particular theme or objective in it's final stage. This seems more fun than just coop deathmatch and the next logical progression of any coop game.
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I think some new enemies would be nice, as well as some new weekly challenges. A return to the game's original horror roots would be nice. A new difficulty that makes the game harder without just making zeds bullet spongy. Possibly when that difficulty is acttive the zeds use different tactics.
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Judging by how the story mode has been implemented so far... God I hope not.
Or they'd have to really think about it on a deeper scale. Because otherwise, it's honestly gonna be a borefest.
And KF has always been playable solo. I think it should stay that way. I'm actually fed up with games forcing you to play with others.
Or they'd have to really think about it on a deeper scale. Because otherwise, it's honestly gonna be a borefest.
And KF has always been playable solo. I think it should stay that way. I'm actually fed up with games forcing you to play with others.
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All my yes' to that ! Don't know exactly which kind of new enemies you have in mind, but I think they should have gone further with both the weekly outbreaks and upgrade system. It should be the backbone of a future game.
And while KF2 became more of a "b-movie" kind of game, with a nice sci-fi layer, I do believe they shouldn't delve even further into wackiness. It's enough that we got so many silly customization options. I think it would be nice to keep it mild : having a day trader with a gas mask or a guy in a chicken suit as mercenaries are enough harmless jokes, same goes for the one-liners. No need to add neon-skins and big heads.
And for the difficulty...I actually had a debate with somebody else on these very forums and we both figured that the game should be a bit more fair in its difficulty. As it stand, Killing Floor is not a hard game unless you get boxed. Similarly, you could perform very well, or even roll on everything the game throws at you. Then suddenly you have a siren protected by two fleshpounds that spawn behind your back and it's game over.
A good game should punish you for playing wrong. Not for being good. In KF, whenever I die, it is usually because of random difficulty spikes rather than my own mistakes. That something that needs to be changed.
I don't want Killing Floor to become "the Dark Souls of first-person shooters", and having some random elements help to keep players on their toes. But it shouldn't rely ONLY on random spawns.
And while KF2 became more of a "b-movie" kind of game, with a nice sci-fi layer, I do believe they shouldn't delve even further into wackiness. It's enough that we got so many silly customization options. I think it would be nice to keep it mild : having a day trader with a gas mask or a guy in a chicken suit as mercenaries are enough harmless jokes, same goes for the one-liners. No need to add neon-skins and big heads.
And for the difficulty...I actually had a debate with somebody else on these very forums and we both figured that the game should be a bit more fair in its difficulty. As it stand, Killing Floor is not a hard game unless you get boxed. Similarly, you could perform very well, or even roll on everything the game throws at you. Then suddenly you have a siren protected by two fleshpounds that spawn behind your back and it's game over.
A good game should punish you for playing wrong. Not for being good. In KF, whenever I die, it is usually because of random difficulty spikes rather than my own mistakes. That something that needs to be changed.
I don't want Killing Floor to become "the Dark Souls of first-person shooters", and having some random elements help to keep players on their toes. But it shouldn't rely ONLY on random spawns.
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You know, I could see an in game thing where wearing a neon item attracts zeds so it could be a tactical thing. Or as a weekly maybe bait player. The mode would be player wears neon noise making bait but earns money by moving around map while others kill zeds. Bait player would maybe have to carry item so as not to use weapon and would gain dosh by how much longer they made the round last than whatever the average round runs instead of dosh versus number of kills. Other players still get money vs kills.
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- More horror atmosphere and music.
- Zeds talking creepy **** like in KF1 classic(they don't seem to talk in KF2)
- Better way to swap primary weapons when you have more than 2
- Balanced Skill choices. Too many skills in KF2 are simple better than the other option.
- More in depth way to upgrade weapons. Forget stats... give us attachments.
- Less reliance on Medic class for HoE.
- Firebug based on KF1 FB where burning DOT/status is useful and matters.
- More active mechanics for each perk, like the Explosive door welding. Support welds faster and can repair doors, the other perks could have something like this too...
For example: Commando could deploy 1 small barricade per wave to block zeds for a bit, SWAT could equip a riot shield(once per wave) that breaks after some hits(or 2-3 HVT hits) but has 100% dmg reduction and draws aggro. Firebug could deploy a few oil barrels around that anyone can shoot to burst an area into flames... things like that.
- A few Dark maps where you actually have to organize your team a bit to deal in dark environments(Give half the perks a way to help the team with that)
It was fun having the flare molotov in the old Firebug. It just doesn't need to be so hard to deal with the darkenss, just picking one or two perks good for it would be more than enough.
- Day/Night cycle for each map(can be based on wave). Randomly start the map at Night or Day.
- Different Zeds that only come at Night/Dark places.
- Some kind of zed that fears light, so you have to put your flashlight on its face, or use a perk that deploys flares/light sources.
- No robots, please. It's a zombie game.
- Zeds talking creepy **** like in KF1 classic(they don't seem to talk in KF2)
- Better way to swap primary weapons when you have more than 2
- Balanced Skill choices. Too many skills in KF2 are simple better than the other option.
- More in depth way to upgrade weapons. Forget stats... give us attachments.
- Less reliance on Medic class for HoE.
- Firebug based on KF1 FB where burning DOT/status is useful and matters.
- More active mechanics for each perk, like the Explosive door welding. Support welds faster and can repair doors, the other perks could have something like this too...
For example: Commando could deploy 1 small barricade per wave to block zeds for a bit, SWAT could equip a riot shield(once per wave) that breaks after some hits(or 2-3 HVT hits) but has 100% dmg reduction and draws aggro. Firebug could deploy a few oil barrels around that anyone can shoot to burst an area into flames... things like that.
- A few Dark maps where you actually have to organize your team a bit to deal in dark environments(Give half the perks a way to help the team with that)
It was fun having the flare molotov in the old Firebug. It just doesn't need to be so hard to deal with the darkenss, just picking one or two perks good for it would be more than enough.
- Day/Night cycle for each map(can be based on wave). Randomly start the map at Night or Day.
- Different Zeds that only come at Night/Dark places.
- Some kind of zed that fears light, so you have to put your flashlight on its face, or use a perk that deploys flares/light sources.
- No robots, please. It's a zombie game.
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I do like dark maps and atmosphere. I feel like the firebug should be able to shoot flares to light up a room or area. Maybe flares are an option for all classes in the vendor but Firebug either gets a larger amount with longer burn time or can buy them cheaper.
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