What we are up to - Jan 13th "The Pacific Front" Edition

[RtD>Kräk]

RO Classic ~ Brother's Realism Mod W@W

RO Classic ~ Brother's Realism Mod W@W

I've never played RO, only HOS. I have played CoD World at War notably the "BROTHER'S REALISM MOD". If RO CLassic is like that, then fantastic! Not a full on sim like ARMA series.

 

[smokeythebear]

I just hope the people who chose the direction of RO2 are not part of making this 'RO classic' mode. It's one thing to offer up suggestions it's another to have a sliver of faith in the management.

 

[tejo.hr]

Good joob guys, keep it up.

As to meaning of RO Classics, I think first that come to my mind is the feeling of the RO1. But I would rather see something in between, the RO2 feeling with the suggestions made by us in previous months. That might bring game closer to the feeling of RO1, but unintentionally since the idea is to improve the gameplay of RO2. Good luck.

 

[Grimreapo]

Actually I like the fact that people are not wailing on the recon plane, I do know for a fact that British and the German did use planes to see movement on the ground, the only gamy things about it is that all players can see the info and that information is passed to the to Forward Observer rather to the battery itself. However I feel there could be a fairly simple change that would make it a bit more realistic, if a player goes prone, stays still and does not fire he should not show up as the recon plane buzzes pass...

Also reduce the the cooldown for rockets, I feel like I am the only commander who ever uses them...

 

[Darrosquall]

For me RO classic in RO2: Heroes of Stalingrad is:

- Less accuracy for MG
- More second for bendage because doesn't work well now, with people that can bandage himself under artillery for example. Now it works like Halo and FPS "modern shooter".
- Alternatively, localize damage, it will be better.
- Fall of the weapons when you shoot at arms.
- MORE SWAY AFTER A RUN when soldier is tired, closer to Ostfront.
-Removed prototypes like MKB
- NO IA in Tanks, spawn in war fields like Ostfront, not directly on tank.
- Koenigsplatz remake
- Slower movements when climbing the stairs.

 

[Falkenhorst]

RO Classic:
- No unlocks
- No prototype weapons
- No enemy weapon load outs
- No zoom button
- No bleeding system or improved one with slower bleed out and bandage time
- Detachable bayonets
- Leg shots slow you down

 

[Centy]

With that in mind we would like to see a focused (AND CIVIL) discussion by the community in this thread as to what "RO Classic" means to them.

For me it would be...

Limiting heavily weapons other than bolt actions

No more unlocks or stat increases

Lower accuracy when firing from the hip from all weapons and take longer to shoulder a weapon accurately

Tanks to play a more significant role in combined arms maps

Larger levels with more objectives

Detachable bayonets and scopes with negative sides like more recoil from the heavier front end of the rifle

Give the commander a pistol only, his job should be coordinating the battle not directly fighting it

Very sparse hud only very limited information when the tactical view is applied or the map is out

Gradual acceleration when sprinting as opposed to full speed right at the start and slow down time when you stop running, just a couple of steps before you can shoulder the weapon

Only 1 weapon slot none of this carrying a long range rifle and a SMG, leads to better role definition

Improved suppression effect, I want to actually feel scared by it rather than find it a minor annoyance as I attempt to aim.
Overhaul of the bleeding/damage system; dropping weapons from hand/arm shots, lower accuracy and slower reloading from them, no running when hit in leg

Lower accuracy on MG and with more tracers, the HMGs should also be in more covered positions with the ability to swivel round further to make them more of a sniper or rifleman target than someone 1 shotting with a PPSH or MP40

Improved sound, regardless if it's realistic or not the weapons sound weak in RO1 they had a proper crack and bang when firing that felt better

A lot of people seem to be complaining about reload times but I tell you what a real trained soldier would be able to reload that fast if his life depended on it so I am fine with this, Longer reloading while walking or running makes sense and quicker when in good cover or crouching.

Honestly I want some things from RO1 and a lot from the current RO2 I don't just want Ost Front HD, RO2 is frantic but rarely is it frantic in the same scary way as Ostfront more in the call of duty run and gun style which is not something I care to see in a game like this.

Just my opinions.

 

[Fafnir_6]

Hey guys,

For me the RO-Classic mode should have:

-Darkest Hour-Style Suppression
-SLIGHTLY less accuracy for automatic and semi-automatic weapons (you could even leave them as is IMHO)
-Historically common weapons available to all (no unlocks) with choosable upgrades (more uncommon upgrades (not bayos or PPSH drum mags)could be available based on player class level)
-No prototype/super-rare weapons (MP40-II, silenced M1895 or AVT (The MKB42(H) would be acceptable on Leningrad maps)).
-Fix bayonnets key with fix/unfix animations for all bayonnet-equipped
weapons with corresponding decrease in accuracy when bayo is fitted
-Tank crews spawn in the field (not in tanks) and can always enter/exit tanks during battle but will need to "un-button" DH-style and move to a crew station with an egress hatch using RO2's awesome crew movement animations to do so.
-Make Grenades a little nastier
-Make the role selection screen like the one in RO1 with the historical blurb about each faction and each role.
-Knock weapons out of hands if hit there
-Retard limb function based on damage level (yellow or red) and make loss of function permament until respawn.
-Remove MG hipfire or make MG hipfire recoil extremely difficult to deal with

Other general changes that would benefit the RO-classic mode as well as other play modes:
-Rework Tank warfare so that AT round penetration and deflections are closer to history
-allow tank commanders/tanks to level up and provide unlocks such as Bolt-on armour for PzIIIJ1 & PzIVF1/F2, smoke nades, German gun on captured KV-1s, etc (upgrades would need to be historically available).
-Keep the AI driver/loader/gunner maybe remove the hull MGer if he can't be nerfed effectively (slow target acquisition and less accuracy)
-Include custom uniform option selections in the role selection screen in addition to weaponry (greatcoats, winter uniforms, and custom uniform details for higher level players). There would still be a default for each map, but this would add a lot of immersion
-Remove super-rare./prototype unlocks (M1895 silencer or MP40-II, etc and add a choice of increased magazine, nade or bandage(quasi medic class) counts to replace them).
-Allow players to bandage teammates to staunch heavier wounds or stop some bleedouts.
-Keep bandaging and bleedout but make bandaging much slower
-More weapon sway for larger, heavier weapons
-Weapon sway and time to iron sights based on fatigue level
-Increased fatigue cost for rough terrain or stairs
-Make the German AT nade historically magnetic as an alt-fire function (you'll need to stick it to the enemy tank).
-Allow C96 users to top up their weapons from stripper clips like you can on rifles

More content is the answer to many of the issues that impact RO2's perceived lack of RO1-ness. I know you guys are working on this as is the modding community. keep up the good work everyone.

I hope this list helps,

Fafnir_6

 

[11_HARLEY_11]

* Slightly longer time to aim down sights

* Slightly increased weapon sway that varies in each stance position, enhanced sway when fatigued, encourage players to utilize the weapon stability feature that is so under used at the moment

* Attachable/Detachable bayonets (it adds a personal tension to in-game moments and gives a sense of ownership of the rifle back to the player)

* Remove rank leveling bonuses to player abilities

* Remove Enemy loadouts

* Inertia that is more noticable yet doesn't neccesarily hamper players (no more turning on a dime or ridiculously jerky movement)

* Gradual acceleration when sprinting as opposed to full speed right at the start

* Deceleration when players come out of sprint with an inability to instantly pull off accurate fire

* Enhance the lethality of grenades

* Reduce player speed when going up steep surfaces and staircases (other recent FPS games have manage to do this just fine)

* When picking up other primary weapons from the ground it will be switched out with the player's current primary weapon (no more all-in-one Rambo players, players must make a concious decision on whether to swap out their primary from the primary they pick up)

* Significant enhancements to Suppression, add blur, add more visual/graphical feedback from weapons hitting near player's position

* Add more menacing suppresion effects to MG fire and make them as useful and fearful as they were designed to be from a fixed position

* Hamper MG hip fire;Reduce MG hipfire accuracy, require the player to click RMB to brace the MG and severly limit player movement speed when in this stance that is required to hip fire MGs (almost exactly how it was in Ostfront)

* Get rid of unlocks, even the playing field by giving classes their historically appropriate era kits

* Tank players should be able to leave their tanks and not locked in

* No spawning on Squad Leaders

* Stamina greatly reduced and visual suppression effects at max when hit

* Remove sidearm (Pistols) unlocks completely

* UI and Squad UI/Squad system needs significant improvements

* Tweak "Lockout" design or remove it completely

* Slightly longer reload times (should vary with weapon)

* Further reduce automatic and semi-automatic weapons on the battlefield (first tweak wasn't enough)

* Reduce Elite Rifleman slots

I agree with this ^^

Plus the good old weapon being shot out of hands would nice. It was such a great game mechanic. The panic it caused was brilliant.

.

 

[NoxNoctum]

RO classic mode for me:

1. More sway when firing unsupported especially after sprinting for a while... I really liked how crucial it was in RO1 to mount your gun on something. I think this was one of the key factors in making RO1 have a "frontline" of sorts that ebbed and flowed. So this is crucial.
2. Remove bandaging all together or increase the time to fatal bleed out as well as increasing amount of time needed to bandage.
3. Longer time to pull up ironsights
4. Remove enemy loadouts
5. Make hip firing MG like in RO1 (require right click to brace MG, and reduce accuracy)
6. Make grenades more lethal
7. Make MG suppression more significant. See Project Reality and Darkest Hour. Make the screen go blurry or have "twitch movement". Anything that makes players act like they fear death, even if they don't, works.
8. Get rid of pistols for anyone but officers.
9. Ditch prototype weapons entirely.
10. Move spawns further back on all maps for both teams. (so you can't rush back into the battle quite as fast)
11. Ditch lockdown entirely.
12. Reduce sprint speed when running up stairs.
13. Get rid of unlocks, give PPSh drum mag by default... or maybe 1 or 2 drummags and then several 32 round clips. Similarly give snipers best scope by default. Get rid of things like double drum mag for MG34 and double mag for MP40 entirely.
14. Give acceleration when sprinting some momentum so you can't turn at a dime instantly.
15. Detachable bayonets.

I'm sure I could think of more but that's it for now.

 

[NoxNoctum]

Actually I like the fact that people are not wailing on the recon plane, I do know for a fact that British and the German did use planes to see movement on the ground, the only gamy things about it is that all players can see the info and that information is passed to the to Forward Observer rather to the battery itself. However I feel there could be a fairly simple change that would make it a bit more realistic, if a player goes prone, stays still and does not fire he should not show up as the recon plane buzzes pass...

Also reduce the the cooldown for rockets, I feel like I am the only commander who ever uses them...

Actually now that you mention it, definitely remove recon plane. It's ridiculously gamey.

 

[Apos]

Hello Tripwire and community,

I'd like to re-post my list of changes and improvements that I wish be released as Normal gamemode. First of all: please don't call us "classic", but "Red Orchestra" or "Normal" gamemode. I'm 25 years old however I still fell like 18 yo and I spent all my best years playing Ostfront .

In [this link] is my entire list. Please bear in mind: that list has already many likes and only few dislikes.
I'd like to inform (again) everybody who dislike it or "don't even care": These points does not change anything in current gamemode, so if you like current state of game - it won't affect you at all. I'm really glad that you like HoS today!

I suggest to watch videos below if you are not sure about these changes and think that HoS is enough realistic. Take a note: how gameplay, atmosphere, voices and other elements are similar in that video and HoS, and so much different than original RO.

Call of Duty - World at War ( PC Multiplayer ) - YouTube

You can ask yourself how similar it is this to this

Red Orchestra 2 Heroes of Stalingrad MG-34 gameplay - YouTube

or this

Red Orchestra 2 Mkb 42 Gameplay (HD) - YouTube

and so much different than this

Red Orchestra - Ostfront 41-45 - Gameplay 1/5 - YouTube

or this

Red Orchestra - Darkest Hour Gameplay #1 [HD] - YouTube


Worth to mention is that we don't want a carbon copy of Ostfront. We really like such features like mantling, bullet penetration and so on. We just want a real successor of award winning tactical WWII game: improved and better Red Orchestra, not that what we can see in first three videos.

I really would like to see many of RO vets coming back to Red Orchestra 2 with smile on their faces + newcomers who wanted to play a new and original tactical game, not "just another fps"...

thank you for reading/watching!

 

[Centy]

Hello Tripwire and community,

I'd like to re-post my list of changes and improvements that I wish be released as Normal gamemode. First of all: please don't call us "classic", but "Red Orchestra" or "Normal" gamemode. I'm 25 years old however I still fell like 18 yo and I spent all my best years playing Ostfront .

In [this link] is my entire list. Please bear in mind: that list has already many likes and only few dislikes.
I'd like to inform (again) everybody who dislike it or "don't even care": These points does not change anything in current gamemode, so if you like current state of game - it won't affect you at all. I'm really glad that you like HoS today!

I suggest to watch videos below if you are not sure about these changes and think that HoS is enough realistic. Take a note: how gameplay, atmosphere, voices and other elements are similar in that video and HoS, and so much different than original RO

....


Worth to mention is that we don't want a carbon copy of Ostfront. We really like such features like mantling, bullet penetration and so on. We just want a real successor of award winning tactical WWII game: improved and better Red Orchestra, not that what we can see in first three videos.

I really would like to see many of RO vets coming back to Red Orchestra 2 with smile on their faces + newcomers who wanted to play a new and original tactical game, not "just another fps"...

thank you for reading/watching!

Reading that and your other post you linked has made my neck sore from nodding in agreement on virtually every point you mentioned. THAT is the game I wanted. Currently I play RO2 the same way I used to play CoD:WaW just for the kills and a bit of arcadey fun, that will only last so long before it gets tiring and I move on to something else.

 

[UsF]

I think we need changes in the following areas
Stamina
- bigger stamina bar (the bigger maps showed it)
- slower replenishing of stamina
- stamina affecting weapon sway more as well as breathing faster/irregular when in iron sights (remember the irregular, spit swalloing breathing sound from RO1?)
- MG hipfiring affected a lot by stamina, also firing the MG depletes stamina, very quickly when done while running
- Stamina is greatly affected by non fatal shots to the torso area

Weapons
- MG hipfire deployment whereby you go into a walking, mg at the ready, stance that allows you to fire the weapon with less stamina drain while moving and no drain while standing still and firing.
- slower iron sighting for all weapons
- longer reload times
- no stats bonuses or ranking
-no unlocks, but choices for players (make the equipment have an effect for example Ppsh drum mag vs stick mag means bigger magazines vs more ammo in total or faster reloading)
- aiming affected when shot in the arms or hands (maybe temporarily again only)

Movement
- more inertia to players when trying to move sideways as well as switching sideway movement
- sprinting to ironsights should take more time than the current situation
- movement affected by shots in the leg, foot etc. (maybe temporarily again only)
- Weapon size affects turning speed, meaning a riflemen cannot turn himself with his weapon as fast as an assault soldier with an smg. The rifle should lag behind somewhat when turning quickly

Wounding:
- as mentioned above
- movement affected by shots in the leg, foot etc. (maybe temporarily again only)
- aiming affected when shot in the arms or hands (maybe temporarily again only)
- Stamina is greatly affected by non fatal shots to the torso area
- no or very slow bandaging with long bleeding time
- no ironsighting when in bleed out mode (outside animation shows a staggering human returning a few shots)
- added sway / no stamina when hipshooting in bleedout mode

Tanks
- less fast tank spawn
- no repairing at ammo dumps on the map
- dedicated repair area in the spawn area of the tanks
- slowed down repairing of tanks, no instant repairing
- visibility of those repair areas on the drivers tactical HUD

General
- I would prefer no forward spawning on most maps (maybe push it back 1 more point to give it more distance) Ogledow showed well how you value your life if you do not spawn at a capture point anymore
- no spawning at squad leader
- higher call in time for artillery
- less impacts per second for artillery barrages
- wider area of impact with above mentioned lighter density
- less good AI in tanks (it was mentioned they were there to help and not be superior to humans, see hull gunner)
- the penetration system might need some changes, probably lowering the damage of penetrating shots as well as giving ricochets through strong material or a chance of no penetration at all for lighter rounds

That is what I could think of so far.

I could think of a few more, that aren't part of RO Classic feel, but would add more to the realism, for instance when you make the sides balanced correctly, giving the russian side more smgs to start with than the germans. This could change the balance of power dramatically, so you could also change the number of players per team. It does not need to be equal all the time. Most of the time a defending force is at a considerable advantage, if both sides are equally well equipped per person. So you could have more attackers than defenders for example.

 

[Sensemann]

I am not going to write a list of improvements because everything has been mentioned in this thread and in numerous other ones already. Rak, Nikita, Colt and Falkenhorst's points are all straight to the point of what I think should be in.

The only point I want to mention is STATS. Do it the old way: give points for capping and kills. Maybe still give assist points and the points for killing somebody in/from the capzone but please do not seperate points. I think many people would play the game differently when at the end of the round, no determination of kill points and team points would be given. One total score, that's it.

 

[MrHello]

Longer aim down sights time.
Slightly slower running speed - more inertia.
A massively increased sensitivity with supression, especially in regards to MGs. (I want to know that I'm scared as a bullet flew by so duck)
Damage to different areas of the body cause different effects, e.g. shooting legs causes slower running speed.

 

[CopperHead]

RO Classic:
- No unlocks
- No prototype weapons
- No enemy weapon load outs
- No zoom button
- No bleeding system or improved one with slower bleed out and bandage time
- Detachable bayonets
- Leg shots slow you down

THIS. PLUS

-No AI in tanks
-No Ramboing MGs
-No "Ready" button
-No spawning on Commander or SL

 

[lazerBAR]

I really dont want it to be completely like Ostfront but to still have the "RO2" feeling, or a mix of both.

-Should give servers the options for AI in tanks.
-Make MG's have to get into firing stance when trying to shoot when going for a "rambo" stance but make them go slower when in stance.
-Longer bandaging and bleed out time.
-No enemy weapon loadouts.
-slower when running up stairs and on difficult terrain.
-More sway when very tired or low on stamina.
-Detachable bayonets.
-give us the option to use the unlocks of our choice(hood sights,double mag for mp40, etc..)
-more melee weapons like shovels and knives.

 

[Golf33]

Yoshiro, a fair bit of the focused and civil discussion you ask for has already occurred. See this thread: http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=74154

 

[|TG|Coridon]

I'm enjoying the game very much as-is, however, I could see some of the changes mentioned here being implemented to bring players [back] to the title.

The biggest suggestion I could make is to lower the player slots on a server in the next patch. 64 is what we want to play but we have to admit that it's unrealistic and servers falter at that number. Even with Rising Storm coming out, etc., we're still going to feel the game has many issues that are ultimately attributed to servers not being able to handle the load. 38 is a more realistic number for player count and when you play with a lower population the games are slower and the automatic weapons don't dominate as easily, since you can actually hit players while using the bolts. If I play on a 64 player server I can't take the game seriously, and instead rubberband, warp, and use the bayonet exclusively. I don't make the mistake of believing I'm a rifleman when I'm ultimately just a pikeman. When I accept this, I can enjoy the rounds, even on an overloaded server.

Again, a big reason automatic/semi-automatic weapons seem to dominate is because of the servers being stressed. Spray and pray and eventually you'll hit something, even if it's nowhere near where you were aiming.

I'm starting to see servers with population caps of 38-50 and this is welcomed, even though I still think 50 is a bit high with the hit-detection system currently in place. As the game is optimized issues are resolved the population cap can slowly be raised to levels servers can actually handle.

It would also be nice to see TWI adjust the squad sizes and classes more accurately for the lower population games so automatic weapons aren't so prevalent.

As far as specific game changes, I definitely think the tank AI hullgunner needs tweaked. Even if it's something as minor as someone making a mutator with a simple algorithm where if there is a bot in the position, then ammo = 0, and if a human is there, ammo = 5, or something similar.

I am also a fan of the spawn-on-squadleader option, but not in its current state. I do believe it encourages squad cohesion, but right now you never know if you can or can't spawn. What determines if you can is based solely on where the SL is physically located. Even an minor adjustment by the SL can make the difference between spawning and not spawning.

The lockdown timer, again, had the right idea to encourage the attacking team to get in the CP instead of sitting back and sniping, but it also doesn't really work. You still find much of the team sitting back and so the burden of wiping out the defenders falls to a small handful willing to get in the objective and clear it out. With the timer counting down, you feel you do have to rush around, running and gunning, trying to clear out the defenders before time runs out. I also feel like this, again, is why many players complain about the game being too fast paced and "arcadey".

Lastly, I'm not particularly supportive of the enemy loadout option. I feel like faster reload speeds, ADS, etc. should be the reward of leveling up a weapon, and that's enough. For instance, as machinegunner, why would you ever use the DP-28? You can achieve veteran status using the MG34 and never touch a DP-28, and never have to, even as a Russian!

Again, I'm a huge fan of the game, so these are just minor constructive criticisms. I think this title has a lot of potential and with a few minor tweaks here and there you could make this gem shine...