What we are up to - Jan 13th "The Pacific Front" Edition
- Thread starter Yoshiro
- Start date
The following is what I think needs to be added/changed/fixed/tweaked/removed in order to give Heroes of Stalingrad the needed state of realism or what is being dubbed "RO Classic" here.
Not in order of priority nor urgency, everything written below is of equal importance.
* Slightly longer time to aim down sights
* Slightly increased weapon sway that varies in each stance position, enhanced sway when fatigued, encourage players to utilize the weapon stability feature that is so under used at the moment
* Attachable/Detachable bayonets (it adds a personal tension to in-game moments and gives a sense of ownership of the rifle back to the player)
* Remove rank leveling bonuses to player abilities
* Remove Enemy loadouts
* Adjust peripheral vision indicators to track BOTH enemies and teammates, not just enemies
* Inertia and momentum that is more noticable yet doesn't neccesarily hamper players (no more turning on a dime or ridiculously jerky movement)
* Gradual acceleration when sprinting as opposed to full speed right at the start
* Deceleration when players come out of sprint with an inability to instantly pull off accurate fire (enhanced sway)
* Enhance the lethality of grenades
* Reduce player speed when going up steep surfaces, ladders and staircases (other recent FPS games have manage to do this just fine)
* When picking up other primary weapons from the ground it will be switched out with the player's current primary weapon (no more all-in-one Rambo players, players must make a concious decision on whether to swap out their primary from the primary they pick up)
* Significant enhancements to Suppression, add blur, add more visual/graphical/audio feedback from weapons hitting near player's position
* Add more menacing suppresion effects to MG fire and make them as useful and fearful as they were designed to be from a fixed position
* Hamper MG hip fire;Reduce MG hipfire accuracy, require the player to click RMB to brace the MG and severly limit player movement speed when in this stance that is required to hip fire MGs (almost exactly how it was in Ostfront)
* Get rid of unlocks, even the playing field by giving classes their historically appropriate era kits (PPSH41 w/Drum Magazines, Remove MG saddle drums, remove MP40II, etc.)
* In depth menu selection screen with historical facts on current map, battle, faction and weapons like Ostfront
* Tank players should be able to leave their tanks and not locked in
* No spawning on Squad Leaders
* Native language for both factions as a proper in-game OPTION
* Weapons being shot out of player hands should be brought back in
* Stamina greatly reduced and visual suppression effects at max when hit
* Remove sidearm (Pistols) unlocks completely
* UI and Squad UI/Squad system needs significant improvements
* Tweak "Lockout" design or remove it completely
* Slightly longer reload times (should vary with weapon)
* Further reduce automatic and semi-automatic weapons on the battlefield (first tweak wasn't enough)
* Reduce Elite Rifleman slots
While I stress the current potential implementations of classic Ostfront features along with the rest of the long time RO players here, I also want to point out that additions that came with HOS shouldn't be completely wiped.
Evolution in my opinion should be important for the RO series to grow. In my opinion some of the newer features from HOS should be retained but tweaked to further accommodate a true Red Orchetsra "Classic" experience.
Recon planes shouldn't enter the map instantly after they are requested on command radio. There should be an allotted time where the commander has to wait before it is active in the map to simulate actual travel time. Also, Recon Planes shouldn't be available on every map.
Bandaging is such a touchy subject. I want to see a limb damage system similar to that of Ostfront but evolved. Status effects for certains wounds should be included (like reduce sprint stamina when shot in the leg, etc.) Bandaging time should be greatly increased, leaving the player vulnerable and should only be allowed to be applied on limbs to prevent bleed out (while not reducing any of the suggested status effects one would receive from an inflicted wound). No more omnipotent sustaining limbs as it is now in-game, reduce the resulting player to a status of "combat ineffective" (dead) if already hit in a bandaged area. As stated prior, weapons being shot out of player hands should be brought back in.
Slow Death Bleedouts should be retained. I like it, it adds diversity to the in-game deaths but shouldn't happen as often as they do now. Remove the ability to aim down sights when blacking out.
Heroes - Another touchy subject. I like to see Heroes remain, it would be great if the feature remains synonymous with the title of the game (Heroes of Stalingrad). Heroes must be reduced to one player per side regardless of team size/server slots. Mkb42/AVT should only be applicable to Heroes, no exceptions or completely remove them. You know, the way Heroes/rare weapons were originally advertised to us here on the forums pre-release.
Tank AI needs a complete overhaul, especially the hull MG gunner accuracy/ effectiveness and the ability to see through smoke.
Not in order of priority nor urgency, everything written below is of equal importance.
* Slightly longer time to aim down sights
* Slightly increased weapon sway that varies in each stance position, enhanced sway when fatigued, encourage players to utilize the weapon stability feature that is so under used at the moment
* Attachable/Detachable bayonets (it adds a personal tension to in-game moments and gives a sense of ownership of the rifle back to the player)
* Remove rank leveling bonuses to player abilities
* Remove Enemy loadouts
* Adjust peripheral vision indicators to track BOTH enemies and teammates, not just enemies
* Inertia and momentum that is more noticable yet doesn't neccesarily hamper players (no more turning on a dime or ridiculously jerky movement)
* Gradual acceleration when sprinting as opposed to full speed right at the start
* Deceleration when players come out of sprint with an inability to instantly pull off accurate fire (enhanced sway)
* Enhance the lethality of grenades
* Reduce player speed when going up steep surfaces, ladders and staircases (other recent FPS games have manage to do this just fine)
* When picking up other primary weapons from the ground it will be switched out with the player's current primary weapon (no more all-in-one Rambo players, players must make a concious decision on whether to swap out their primary from the primary they pick up)
* Significant enhancements to Suppression, add blur, add more visual/graphical/audio feedback from weapons hitting near player's position
* Add more menacing suppresion effects to MG fire and make them as useful and fearful as they were designed to be from a fixed position
* Hamper MG hip fire;Reduce MG hipfire accuracy, require the player to click RMB to brace the MG and severly limit player movement speed when in this stance that is required to hip fire MGs (almost exactly how it was in Ostfront)
* Get rid of unlocks, even the playing field by giving classes their historically appropriate era kits (PPSH41 w/Drum Magazines, Remove MG saddle drums, remove MP40II, etc.)
* In depth menu selection screen with historical facts on current map, battle, faction and weapons like Ostfront
* Tank players should be able to leave their tanks and not locked in
* No spawning on Squad Leaders
* Native language for both factions as a proper in-game OPTION
* Weapons being shot out of player hands should be brought back in
* Stamina greatly reduced and visual suppression effects at max when hit
* Remove sidearm (Pistols) unlocks completely
* UI and Squad UI/Squad system needs significant improvements
* Tweak "Lockout" design or remove it completely
* Slightly longer reload times (should vary with weapon)
* Further reduce automatic and semi-automatic weapons on the battlefield (first tweak wasn't enough)
* Reduce Elite Rifleman slots
While I stress the current potential implementations of classic Ostfront features along with the rest of the long time RO players here, I also want to point out that additions that came with HOS shouldn't be completely wiped.
Evolution in my opinion should be important for the RO series to grow. In my opinion some of the newer features from HOS should be retained but tweaked to further accommodate a true Red Orchetsra "Classic" experience.
Recon planes shouldn't enter the map instantly after they are requested on command radio. There should be an allotted time where the commander has to wait before it is active in the map to simulate actual travel time. Also, Recon Planes shouldn't be available on every map.
Bandaging is such a touchy subject. I want to see a limb damage system similar to that of Ostfront but evolved. Status effects for certains wounds should be included (like reduce sprint stamina when shot in the leg, etc.) Bandaging time should be greatly increased, leaving the player vulnerable and should only be allowed to be applied on limbs to prevent bleed out (while not reducing any of the suggested status effects one would receive from an inflicted wound). No more omnipotent sustaining limbs as it is now in-game, reduce the resulting player to a status of "combat ineffective" (dead) if already hit in a bandaged area. As stated prior, weapons being shot out of player hands should be brought back in.
Slow Death Bleedouts should be retained. I like it, it adds diversity to the in-game deaths but shouldn't happen as often as they do now. Remove the ability to aim down sights when blacking out.
Heroes - Another touchy subject. I like to see Heroes remain, it would be great if the feature remains synonymous with the title of the game (Heroes of Stalingrad). Heroes must be reduced to one player per side regardless of team size/server slots. Mkb42/AVT should only be applicable to Heroes, no exceptions or completely remove them. You know, the way Heroes/rare weapons were originally advertised to us here on the forums pre-release.
Tank AI needs a complete overhaul, especially the hull MG gunner accuracy/ effectiveness and the ability to see through smoke.
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THIS basicly^
wounds should have a major impact on your effectivness (annoying ones like running speed should be temp. like in ROOST but the initial hit should slow them down alot.) machineguns need to be put back into their role of "king of the killzone" ecpecually the heavy machineguns which need to be placed ALOT better.
Classic mode eh?
Before naming any one or two particular features/data points, I should say that my image of 'classic mode' is a balance that results in a more tactical flavour of game. This can be achieved in a number of different ways, so while each of us has our own ideas for little niggling bits, the main focus should be on the end concoction. ( Thats one of the areas where I believe RO HOS met some difficulty, almost all of the ideas in the game can stand on their own on paper, but the implementation, plus mixture makes some of them sore thumbs ).
Now to the details, It is worth re iterating at this point that the flavour of game I would like to see is more tactical, and for the game to take a slightly slower rhythm, and for combat to be less lethal, as well as simultaneously being more lethal. ( Explanation beneath ).
Here are some changes and tweaks that I feel will encourage players to adpot a playstyle / change the game flow.
- Add Inertia to player movement, and increase the time it takes to manipulate a weapon ( raise / lower ), this should also be factored for how long the weapon is, the lengthy mosin nagant being slightly more cumbersome then a Kar98.
(note, rested state = resting heart rate, not rested weapon )
- overhaul the surpression system, as well as the aiming and sway. As it stands now If I sling hold any one of my rifles I can manage to get a sway somewhat similar to the games, this is in a completely rested state; war is not a rested state. I am not suggesting a return to Ost sway, as that literally was ridiculous ( especially when rested ). Sway in the ingame rested state should be more then it is now, but not by much. Sway in a fatigued state, or when surpressed should be much greater than it is now ( approaching towards RO1 sway ).
The suppression system should also do a lot more to make it harder to return fire, the emphasis in a Machinegun surpression riflemen situation should be to encourage players to flank, not some variation of ro1 jack in a box riflemen.
Also added to this the fatigue system needs to change. Players need an option to walk again as they could in RO1, also I would suggest removing the stamina bar completely and letting them jog / sprint run as they can now ( which progressivly gets slower as you keep going ), the major negative to overusing the running is that it makes you a target, and the increased negatives of being fatigued. The artificial limit placed on players of one small dash before they are wiped is just an un necessary survivor of the arcade games that game before RO.
Getting back to 'flavour' the last three suggestions should work together to make combat 'less lethal' in that it will be harder to hit players, and the game will require more tactics and flanking where possible. Secondly it will make the game 'more lethal' in the next suggestion.
Kiss the bandaids good bye.
Here's the thing, I understand the logic behid the bandaging idea when it is on a pedistal and we are ONLY considering it. The problem is that in the game as it is now it has the effect of emboldening players to the point of the ridiculous, players laugh when they hear people say RO is realistic; as if a bunch of rambos running around at full sprint, stopping to shoot eachother, then the winner applies a bandaid and keeps going has anything to do with realism. Logically in the game context though, I think that RO Ost hit the nail on the head with 'dead when combat innefective'. Players often tried to play like rambo, but it ended badly some 99.95% of the time. This forced players to think more, and play tactically, which just gave the game a better feel.
Graphically ( if possible ) make round impacts have more visible effects, currently a MG spraying and landing rounds infront of you does little to obscure your vision, it should.
- Also, greatly reduce the enemy weapon selection, and make a teams on weapons the standard selection.
I'l add more later.
Before naming any one or two particular features/data points, I should say that my image of 'classic mode' is a balance that results in a more tactical flavour of game. This can be achieved in a number of different ways, so while each of us has our own ideas for little niggling bits, the main focus should be on the end concoction. ( Thats one of the areas where I believe RO HOS met some difficulty, almost all of the ideas in the game can stand on their own on paper, but the implementation, plus mixture makes some of them sore thumbs ).
Now to the details, It is worth re iterating at this point that the flavour of game I would like to see is more tactical, and for the game to take a slightly slower rhythm, and for combat to be less lethal, as well as simultaneously being more lethal. ( Explanation beneath ).
Here are some changes and tweaks that I feel will encourage players to adpot a playstyle / change the game flow.
- Add Inertia to player movement, and increase the time it takes to manipulate a weapon ( raise / lower ), this should also be factored for how long the weapon is, the lengthy mosin nagant being slightly more cumbersome then a Kar98.
(note, rested state = resting heart rate, not rested weapon )
- overhaul the surpression system, as well as the aiming and sway. As it stands now If I sling hold any one of my rifles I can manage to get a sway somewhat similar to the games, this is in a completely rested state; war is not a rested state. I am not suggesting a return to Ost sway, as that literally was ridiculous ( especially when rested ). Sway in the ingame rested state should be more then it is now, but not by much. Sway in a fatigued state, or when surpressed should be much greater than it is now ( approaching towards RO1 sway ).
The suppression system should also do a lot more to make it harder to return fire, the emphasis in a Machinegun surpression riflemen situation should be to encourage players to flank, not some variation of ro1 jack in a box riflemen.
Also added to this the fatigue system needs to change. Players need an option to walk again as they could in RO1, also I would suggest removing the stamina bar completely and letting them jog / sprint run as they can now ( which progressivly gets slower as you keep going ), the major negative to overusing the running is that it makes you a target, and the increased negatives of being fatigued. The artificial limit placed on players of one small dash before they are wiped is just an un necessary survivor of the arcade games that game before RO.
Getting back to 'flavour' the last three suggestions should work together to make combat 'less lethal' in that it will be harder to hit players, and the game will require more tactics and flanking where possible. Secondly it will make the game 'more lethal' in the next suggestion.
Kiss the bandaids good bye.
Here's the thing, I understand the logic behid the bandaging idea when it is on a pedistal and we are ONLY considering it. The problem is that in the game as it is now it has the effect of emboldening players to the point of the ridiculous, players laugh when they hear people say RO is realistic; as if a bunch of rambos running around at full sprint, stopping to shoot eachother, then the winner applies a bandaid and keeps going has anything to do with realism. Logically in the game context though, I think that RO Ost hit the nail on the head with 'dead when combat innefective'. Players often tried to play like rambo, but it ended badly some 99.95% of the time. This forced players to think more, and play tactically, which just gave the game a better feel.
Graphically ( if possible ) make round impacts have more visible effects, currently a MG spraying and landing rounds infront of you does little to obscure your vision, it should.
- Also, greatly reduce the enemy weapon selection, and make a teams on weapons the standard selection.
I'l add more later.
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Saw the word Pacific, thought this was the Pacific Mod.
...I was disappointed. But seriously, thats good, hopefully more people will get to play, meaning more people to kill >
EDIT: Read the post in all its glory.
Seems to be Im wrong.
...I was disappointed. But seriously, thats good, hopefully more people will get to play, meaning more people to kill >
EDIT: Read the post in all its glory.
Seems to be Im wrong.
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Consistent feeling in game play:
To me long range in HOS feels very campy WW1 trench warfare, while close quarter combat feels very run and gun. It would be nicer if both long and shorter range would feel somewhat more consistent in pacing. Slowing short range combat down (IS speed esp when running), while getting people to attack more on the long range (lowered zoom / more visibility in the fov mode).
The feeling of being in control of my character:
Unless you zoom in a all the time the chance is big that you would never see your possible enemy, this makes me feel like a horse with blinders. It should be possible to spot enemies even when not zoomed in, allowing you to make full use of your default wide fov view. Together with that I'd like to see things of equal size when running.
Free aim in iron sight feels to me as if the game got mouse acceleration which makes me want to pull my hair out, even if I would get a heavy penalty like sway, I would love to see an option to disable free aim and be able to replace it for another sort of penalty. Perhaps to make bolt action rifles more useful allow the bolt to have no free aim.
Most modern day shooters use holding a button to go to ironsight, heck even Killing floor got it, to me holding a button feels some much more intuitive than toggling.
Spoiler!
This gives a solid list in general:
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=73168
Summary of the main things I'd like to see change:
- Zoom - make it such that you do not need to be zoomed in to be able to spot enemies, and make it such that you can see things of equal size on the move. I can see things at a 1:1 size even when running together with a 180
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1. Slow down game Speed and Movements (longer reload times, longer times to toogle iron sights etc.
2. More weapon sway for all weapons, especially for hipfired mgs!!
3. 100 percent Body Collision
4. Surpression system of Darkest Hour mod!
5. Native Languages
6. Decrease just a little bit the FOV zoom for normal infantry not for snipers, so the sniper class is more important
7. Option to manualy remove unlocks!
8. Remove tank AI gunners, add keyboard keys (asd) to control and move tank turrent.
9. New larger maps with new vehicles (halftracks for both sides) and light tanks to support infantry (Stug, t 70 or kv 1/2, Panzer III).
10. Classic Role Selection Menu with descriptions like in RoOst.
Otherwise im not coming back, because at the moment the game is just g.......
2. More weapon sway for all weapons, especially for hipfired mgs!!
3. 100 percent Body Collision
4. Surpression system of Darkest Hour mod!
5. Native Languages
6. Decrease just a little bit the FOV zoom for normal infantry not for snipers, so the sniper class is more important
7. Option to manualy remove unlocks!
8. Remove tank AI gunners, add keyboard keys (asd) to control and move tank turrent.
9. New larger maps with new vehicles (halftracks for both sides) and light tanks to support infantry (Stug, t 70 or kv 1/2, Panzer III).
10. Classic Role Selection Menu with descriptions like in RoOst.
Otherwise im not coming back, because at the moment the game is just g.......
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Sounds good. Thanks TWI.
Here are my main "RO Classic" suggestions:
1) Require RMB (Right Mouse Button) click to hip-fire MG, like in RO1.
This should reduce the Rambo MG, and be realistic - as one needs to "brace themselves" before firing an MG hipped. Also, reduce movement speed when "hip deployed" like in RO1
2) Native voices on the menu (with subtitles as an option).
Seeing a YouTube video with native voices just felt more "right." But it's nice to understand what is going on - hence the subtitles option.
3) Nerf the tank AI hull gunner - point blank range only to kill those pesky AT guys with anti-tank grenades.
While realistic to have a fully manned tank, it's annoying to many players getting sniped from 500 yards with a single bullet to the head. Also, this would give an incentive to actually team tank, instead of it being a handicap. Obviously, no shooting through smoke. Might just be easier to have tank AI limited to the lowest level.
4) No Mkb / AVT
Classic mode, right? 'Nuff said
Anyways, that's my $0.02 worth.
Here are my main "RO Classic" suggestions:
1) Require RMB (Right Mouse Button) click to hip-fire MG, like in RO1.
This should reduce the Rambo MG, and be realistic - as one needs to "brace themselves" before firing an MG hipped. Also, reduce movement speed when "hip deployed" like in RO1
2) Native voices on the menu (with subtitles as an option).
Seeing a YouTube video with native voices just felt more "right." But it's nice to understand what is going on - hence the subtitles option.
3) Nerf the tank AI hull gunner - point blank range only to kill those pesky AT guys with anti-tank grenades.
While realistic to have a fully manned tank, it's annoying to many players getting sniped from 500 yards with a single bullet to the head. Also, this would give an incentive to actually team tank, instead of it being a handicap. Obviously, no shooting through smoke. Might just be easier to have tank AI limited to the lowest level.
4) No Mkb / AVT
Classic mode, right? 'Nuff said
Anyways, that's my $0.02 worth.
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Well as you can't make a particular game for each players.
"RO classic" for me?
1rst i would rename it into "RO series classic".
It's simple. No need to disable or remove all things.
Adapt our RO2 new things and features into a "RO:OST mind/spirit" of gameplay pace and logic (This include as well the sound design).
@my personal point: Pronounced suppression. Pronounced sound effect/drama.
"RO classic" for me?
1rst i would rename it into "RO series classic".
It's simple. No need to disable or remove all things.
Adapt our RO2 new things and features into a "RO:OST mind/spirit" of gameplay pace and logic (This include as well the sound design).
@my personal point: Pronounced suppression. Pronounced sound effect/drama.
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My RO Classic suggestion is basically what's been said on these threads:
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=73168
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=74150
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=74424
EDIT: But my top concerns are the bonuses given by leveling up, ADS speed, reloading speed, sway, lack of inertia, lack of player collision, bandages and lack of limb damage (without giving penalties for getting hit in the leg and arm).
EDIT 2: Forgot to mention that I hate lockdown and would like to see it disabled
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=73168
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=74150
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=74424
EDIT: But my top concerns are the bonuses given by leveling up, ADS speed, reloading speed, sway, lack of inertia, lack of player collision, bandages and lack of limb damage (without giving penalties for getting hit in the leg and arm).
EDIT 2: Forgot to mention that I hate lockdown and would like to see it disabled
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I'm not sure I like the sound of 'ro classic mode'. I would rather see a mode that aims to be more realistic, refining/tuning the current elements of this game.
Anyhow, things I'd like to be see in classic/realsitic mode:
- no stat bonusses: all stats @ level 0 except recoil for smg and lmgs @ lvl50
- More impact of fatigue: less hold breath-ability, more sway
- Add more sight misalignment
---- when going into IS
---- when transitioning between crouched/standing and lean/no-lean stances (this would help reducing pop-up accuracy and making cover funciton more useful)
---- when suppressed by bullets and explosions
---- when hit
- remove hull mg AI (it really kills the tanking fun)
- suppression: louder cracks / more like DH
- wounds similar to RO:Ost. Either make it temporary like in RO:Ost or make it treatable by bandaging (with longer bandage time)
- Allow us to bind the voice-commands to single buttons
- Slower movement on stairs/slopes
- Footsteps (but I guess this is a bug)
- Remove lockdown or make it a server option
- Remove spawn protection when reinforcements reach 0
- Require RMB for LMG hipfire
- Keep zoom. (possible improvement: allow it when moving)
Anyhow, things I'd like to be see in classic/realsitic mode:
- no stat bonusses: all stats @ level 0 except recoil for smg and lmgs @ lvl50
- More impact of fatigue: less hold breath-ability, more sway
- Add more sight misalignment
---- when going into IS
---- when transitioning between crouched/standing and lean/no-lean stances (this would help reducing pop-up accuracy and making cover funciton more useful)
---- when suppressed by bullets and explosions
---- when hit
- remove hull mg AI (it really kills the tanking fun)
- suppression: louder cracks / more like DH
- wounds similar to RO:Ost. Either make it temporary like in RO:Ost or make it treatable by bandaging (with longer bandage time)
- Allow us to bind the voice-commands to single buttons
- Slower movement on stairs/slopes
- Footsteps (but I guess this is a bug)
- Remove lockdown or make it a server option
- Remove spawn protection when reinforcements reach 0
- Require RMB for LMG hipfire
- Keep zoom. (possible improvement: allow it when moving)
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At least for me and I'm sure others too; its not all nostalgia, I was just playing RO1 a month ago and my dad + others have been playing it this week, 'just yesterday' doesn't really make my personal preferences nostalgia. For me its specific game design choices that are not satisfying to me.
In general, I prefer a slower paced game that rewards thinking and tactics; last I played RO2 it was a run' n gun' meat grinder on most maps with rambo MGs and smg snipers. I found it frustrating to play classes like MG where you could not stick your head up anywhere or deploy for more than a few seconds without getting popped by either:
A. Some random guy across the map with his binocular vision.
B. Some guy stopping from a full sprint and taking a snap shot at you in a second.
I probably sucked, I admit it but at least to me, the way the game is currently, MGs do not have that fearsome effect like they did in RO1. The game sort of pidgin-holes(fast pace, zoom, awkward deployments at times) you to going rambo or setting up in places that are not the most effective. Sometimes you might be able to get in a good choke point but a lot of the time your life is very short.
Some things I would like to see:
Slow the game pace down some by:
Slower iron sites/ADS
More sway while aiming offhand/kneeling/unsupported.
More sway after running long periods
No Zoom - It may be 'realistic' do to our limited fov due to out monitor however I feel it negates the advantages of the sniper/support class. Most of the time sniper is not needed because a standard rifleman/Smg with his zoom can get the job done. It also makes it taking precise shots easier, making it even easier to take out less mobile targets(Machine Gunners/Snipers). I also feel also 'negates' the size/range/balance of the maps especially when SMG can be effective at all ranges on the majority.
Bandaging- I feel it should be adjusted. Its a good idea but the time it takes to bleedout/bandage makes the feature feel tacked on. Non fatal bleed outs(Legs, arms etc) should take longer to bleed out but bandaging should also take longer dress.
Wounds - In relation to bandaging, wounds should also adversely effect the player in other ways besides death(bleeding out). Arm/hand wounds should make it more difficult to line up a shot, leg wounds should slow/hobble the player, Chest wounds could affect your stamina and so on. Bandaging would only stop bleeding, not the adverse effects.(Honestly not sure if there are non fatal chest wounds in RO2, not something I took notice of)
Lockdown: Not a bad concept, however the way it is implemented is a bit frustrating. Sometimes you are seconds away from controlling a cap zone with no enemies in it, however lockdown hits 0 and you lose even though you would have won/advanced to next cap if you had 5 seconds to spare. Its not fair to the attacking side.
I feel it should be either removed or adjusted to be less interfering while still fulfilling its intended purpose. Perhaps when it hits 0, instead of ending the game immediately, it would enter a sort of "sudden death" mode for the attackers. After the counter hits 0, the current players waiting for respawn can spawn but after that spawns are disabled. Commanders can use their Force Spawn abilities but normal spawns are disabled. Defenders spawns are unaffected. This would allow attackers to turn the tide or finish a cap that is rightfully theirs. It could be adjusted so that when the last wave spawns, a counter like the current countdown starts and will end the game when it hits 0 if none of the remaining troops are in the capzone(Think TF2 Payload games when the game goes into over time, if noone touches the cart when the time hits 0, they lose)
Also: Let us choose our 'upgrades'. Having a reflex sight is not wanted alot of the time as we prefer regular sights. Give us the choice.
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For me, classic RO is huge bullet cracks, whips and booms that make you drop down, and long distant, prolonged fire fights.
Great business model you guys have. Make "customers" work on your game through SDK and hope to profit of that in sales. I do the same thing in my small business but hey the customers are always right so why not make them work on the product lol. How this country still lingers is beyond me.
Anyway relealse some official content and I'll be glad to toss my hard earned money your way whatever the price is. I am tired of the same maps and the same server. Sadly, somehow your title is still worth it.
Anyway relealse some official content and I'll be glad to toss my hard earned money your way whatever the price is. I am tired of the same maps and the same server. Sadly, somehow your title is still worth it.
Thanks for informing us. I think gameplay changes should be for realism, not because it was in Ostfront. Not everything in Ostfront was necessarily realistic. The bandaging system is not really realistic at all right now. Taking less then a second to bandage? It ought to take longer then that. Either fix it or remove bleeding/bandaging all together. I think reloading times of Ostfront should return. That was realistic.
Ostfront with RO2 graphics, need no more.
On the topic of larger maps--while they certainly can slow down gameplay, I don't think that we necessarily need larger, more open maps to have a proper RO experience. Once we have a better wound system with penalties, slower bandaging, slower aim-down-iron-sights speed, a better stamina system, and more realistic loadouts, the kind of sprint-and-gun gameplay we're seeing in close quarters should be severely curtailed.
Currently, it's almost like playing a series of blitz-fast rounds for each objective, and in my opinion it makes attacking very difficult, because there is little to no flexibility as to WHEN a team can take an objective. If you take an objective with time to spare, the time remaining doesn't even seem to carry over towards the next objective! (Not sure on this, must confirm).
The biggest step Tripwire could take, in my opinion, to reduce the incentive to run-and-gun, is to make lockdown times more lenient in both countdown and territory. Currently, an offensive team has to bum rush almost every objective to beat the clock, with no option to explore alternative methods and routes towards taking objectives. They have to burn large amounts of reinforcements trying to put more of their own soldiers into the cap zone, and there is literally a dis-incentive to play slowly on maps like Station or Apartments.
Fewer reinforcements and much more lenient lockdowns (see my post on the first page before you reply saying how lockdown should be totally scrapped) mean that the attacking team can--and must--proceed more slowly to take an objective. It has the luxury of pursuing more creative strategies, but must pay attention to conserving lives. In short, the RUSH RUSH RUSH strategy pervading maps like Commissar's House and Red October utterly vanishes, and we should see a lot more slow fighting from room to room.
Thanks for considering gameplay changes though, Tripwire, I know my faith is not misplaced!
Currently, it's almost like playing a series of blitz-fast rounds for each objective, and in my opinion it makes attacking very difficult, because there is little to no flexibility as to WHEN a team can take an objective. If you take an objective with time to spare, the time remaining doesn't even seem to carry over towards the next objective! (Not sure on this, must confirm).
The biggest step Tripwire could take, in my opinion, to reduce the incentive to run-and-gun, is to make lockdown times more lenient in both countdown and territory. Currently, an offensive team has to bum rush almost every objective to beat the clock, with no option to explore alternative methods and routes towards taking objectives. They have to burn large amounts of reinforcements trying to put more of their own soldiers into the cap zone, and there is literally a dis-incentive to play slowly on maps like Station or Apartments.
Fewer reinforcements and much more lenient lockdowns (see my post on the first page before you reply saying how lockdown should be totally scrapped) mean that the attacking team can--and must--proceed more slowly to take an objective. It has the luxury of pursuing more creative strategies, but must pay attention to conserving lives. In short, the RUSH RUSH RUSH strategy pervading maps like Commissar's House and Red October utterly vanishes, and we should see a lot more slow fighting from room to room.
Thanks for considering gameplay changes though, Tripwire, I know my faith is not misplaced!
Why should semis have to wait for their weapon to settle between shots? That's ridiculous. Have you ever shot a real semi automatic rifle before? They will shoot as fast as you can pull the trigger. People in real life don't have to come to a complete stop to put a rifle to their shoulder and aim their weapon. I'd prefer if fantasy realism would be left out of the game.
Hm in no particular order
-Improved sound: From Grenades sounding like more of a threat to the distinct crack of gunshots present in Ostfront to the Artillery, it all improved immersion and the cracks of gunshots really got you to put your head down... This is lacking in HoS and NEEDS to be put back in. Despite the sounds being more "realistic" in the sequel, they don't make me want to dive for cover the way they did in Ostfront
-Stamina/ADS: Right now I think the sprinting is fine minus the complains mentioned about people easily sprinting up stairs, but I doubt that's so easy to fix. Anyways when my soldier is out of stamina to a point where he's pretty much gasping for air, he should also have trouble holding his weapon still. ADS on it's own is fine in my opinion, especially with long distance engagements where the very slight sway CAN and WILL screw a shot up. The problem with it is that from me testing it in game, the time it takes to bring up the sites is equal when you're say in full sprint mode, or just jogging along with the weapon at the hip. I can't recall right now but in Ostfront I remember I'd always travel with the weapon at my hips rather then sprint to have an advantage over the guys sprinting. These days I either aim down the sights preemptively or just sprint see a guy and ADS since it's almost instantaneous.
-Squad Leader Spawning: Squad leader spawning is just... a mess really. I try and use it when I can for that occasional time it decides to let me spawn but the main reason one of my friends doesn't and I don't blame him, is because when you DON'T spawn on your squad leader you're spawned seemingly at random at either 1 or 2. So this can be infuriating if you had 1 selected, see your squad leader and attempt to spawn on him, and then you end up at 2 with no reason given. I recall once on station I attempted to spawn on my German squad leader who was hiding behind a wall unable to be seen and in an objective we had capped already, the first time I spawn on him fine (But die to a grenade that I seemed to spawn on top of, P.S. DAMN MY LUCK), and the second time 20 seconds later I spawn at two and since I wasn't focused on that area of the battle, I had no idea what areas were "safe" and what areas to look out for. It was also confusing to say the least, as my squad leader hadn't moved each time and the area was just as clear the second time as it was the first. At the VERY LEAST people need to spawn at their previously selected spawn point if the spawn on squad leader fails.
Levelling System: This should be removed obviously, however I think people should still be able to level up their weapons class or whatever, but on the realistic mode people should all have level 1 stats. This allows people to level up their weapons and classes in case they decide to play on a relaxed realism server, preventing them from "falling behind" while also removing artificial advantages while promoting skill.
Uniforms/Models: I like the idea that with levelling and whatnot your character and weapons change their look, however I've already had games on say Commisar's where I'll spot this crazy russian hero rushing into my iron sights out of spawn 2. I shoot him, he dies. 15 seconds later I see the same guy do the same thing except this time he throws a grenade. It's the same symptom I have when I kill the same German with the same MKB over and over again, except this time it's the uniform. Bring back the random uniforms/models system Ostfront had, besides adding variety it also makes it harder to tell which enemy is which, and makes it less obvious when you fight the SAME PERSON and kill the SAME PERSON over and over again.
Heroes: I liked this system the way it was described in the trailers and interviews. One Hero per team. One MKB 42/AVT 40 per team. Oh, and just so that the AVT 40 is always seen, I think the hero should be forced to use either of these weapons. The reason being is to prevent the Russian/German hero from just being another guy with an MP40 or PPSH. Of course they can still loot whatever they please from the ground and drop said weapon if it annoys them that much. Other then have access to the "super secret rare technology" that every assault seems to have now, heroes would also still provide the morale boost when near friendlies.
Just a note, I tried to avoid providing ideas that would make Ro2 exactly the same as Ostfront, but rather would provide the same type of experience from Ostfront all the Veterans enjoyed. These changes to the mode, plus good maps should start to help with that. Oh, and of course these aren't the only thing that should be changed as there have been many good suggestions (And not so good suggestions) stated already that should be looked at. However I tried to focus on thing's that can for the most part be agreed on, only thing I can tell that wouldn't be agreed with is the Heroes suggestion, but then again that's just what I think would work.
Sorry for the wall of text and eh, just in case TWI or anyone forgot. Please fix the death screams in multiplayer. And eh, please add a cape or hoodie or something for russian Marksman/Sniper.... Most people should know what I'm talking about.
-Improved sound: From Grenades sounding like more of a threat to the distinct crack of gunshots present in Ostfront to the Artillery, it all improved immersion and the cracks of gunshots really got you to put your head down... This is lacking in HoS and NEEDS to be put back in. Despite the sounds being more "realistic" in the sequel, they don't make me want to dive for cover the way they did in Ostfront
-Stamina/ADS: Right now I think the sprinting is fine minus the complains mentioned about people easily sprinting up stairs, but I doubt that's so easy to fix. Anyways when my soldier is out of stamina to a point where he's pretty much gasping for air, he should also have trouble holding his weapon still. ADS on it's own is fine in my opinion, especially with long distance engagements where the very slight sway CAN and WILL screw a shot up. The problem with it is that from me testing it in game, the time it takes to bring up the sites is equal when you're say in full sprint mode, or just jogging along with the weapon at the hip. I can't recall right now but in Ostfront I remember I'd always travel with the weapon at my hips rather then sprint to have an advantage over the guys sprinting. These days I either aim down the sights preemptively or just sprint see a guy and ADS since it's almost instantaneous.
-Squad Leader Spawning: Squad leader spawning is just... a mess really. I try and use it when I can for that occasional time it decides to let me spawn but the main reason one of my friends doesn't and I don't blame him, is because when you DON'T spawn on your squad leader you're spawned seemingly at random at either 1 or 2. So this can be infuriating if you had 1 selected, see your squad leader and attempt to spawn on him, and then you end up at 2 with no reason given. I recall once on station I attempted to spawn on my German squad leader who was hiding behind a wall unable to be seen and in an objective we had capped already, the first time I spawn on him fine (But die to a grenade that I seemed to spawn on top of, P.S. DAMN MY LUCK), and the second time 20 seconds later I spawn at two and since I wasn't focused on that area of the battle, I had no idea what areas were "safe" and what areas to look out for. It was also confusing to say the least, as my squad leader hadn't moved each time and the area was just as clear the second time as it was the first. At the VERY LEAST people need to spawn at their previously selected spawn point if the spawn on squad leader fails.
Levelling System: This should be removed obviously, however I think people should still be able to level up their weapons class or whatever, but on the realistic mode people should all have level 1 stats. This allows people to level up their weapons and classes in case they decide to play on a relaxed realism server, preventing them from "falling behind" while also removing artificial advantages while promoting skill.
Uniforms/Models: I like the idea that with levelling and whatnot your character and weapons change their look, however I've already had games on say Commisar's where I'll spot this crazy russian hero rushing into my iron sights out of spawn 2. I shoot him, he dies. 15 seconds later I see the same guy do the same thing except this time he throws a grenade. It's the same symptom I have when I kill the same German with the same MKB over and over again, except this time it's the uniform. Bring back the random uniforms/models system Ostfront had, besides adding variety it also makes it harder to tell which enemy is which, and makes it less obvious when you fight the SAME PERSON and kill the SAME PERSON over and over again.
Heroes: I liked this system the way it was described in the trailers and interviews. One Hero per team. One MKB 42/AVT 40 per team. Oh, and just so that the AVT 40 is always seen, I think the hero should be forced to use either of these weapons. The reason being is to prevent the Russian/German hero from just being another guy with an MP40 or PPSH. Of course they can still loot whatever they please from the ground and drop said weapon if it annoys them that much
. Other then have access to the "super secret rare technology" that every assault seems to have now, heroes would also still provide the morale boost when near friendlies. Just a note, I tried to avoid providing ideas that would make Ro2 exactly the same as Ostfront, but rather would provide the same type of experience from Ostfront all the Veterans enjoyed. These changes to the mode, plus good maps should start to help with that. Oh, and of course these aren't the only thing that should be changed as there have been many good suggestions (And not so good suggestions) stated already that should be looked at. However I tried to focus on thing's that can for the most part be agreed on, only thing I can tell that wouldn't be agreed with is the Heroes suggestion, but then again that's just what I think would work.
Sorry for the wall of text and eh, just in case TWI or anyone forgot. Please fix the death screams in multiplayer. And eh, please add a cape or hoodie or something for russian Marksman/Sniper.... Most people should know what I'm talking about.
I think the scale of the game is too small to have the weight of tank crew re-enforcing infantry with sub machine guns. Tanks are powerfull enough without having them double as infantry every time their tank dies.
Perhaps the tank commander popping out the top with a pistol but thats it.
I do not want a battlefield game. Next thing you know when a recon plane is shot down we will see a bot parachute in from the flaming aircraft and run amuck.
Fact is you support your tanks with infantry properly or you do not. You don't go rambo with a tank jumping out and back in at will. Tankers would almost never consider this on the field... I know it happened but generally its silly and leaves the valuable tank open to losing its valuable crew along with a tank to the enemy in perfect condition.
Now in a game you know everybody will be doing it. Well thats what a half track is for, not a tank.
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