What KF2 needs? [Discussion + Poll]
- Thread starter Humam2104
- Start date
Honestly, at that point? I'm merely asking for closure. I won't detail what I said many, MANY times already. But I think it would be nice to wrap it all up and start thinking about KF3.
Until then, I believe it's wishful thinking to ask for a finalized upgrade system for example. It's probably gonna happen in KF3. Just like the Objective Mode.
So I guess we could have 2-3 "official" maps (as in, made by Tripwire) to settle it out regarding the lore (just like they did in KF1), give a T5 to the remaining perks. Make a HUGE balance patch as an ultimate update. Then move on.
And not just a patch that tweaks one or two skills or weapons. A proper overhaul of the medic and survivalist is more than due. And if the resources are just "not there" anymore... Then let's spare it ! Instead of spending time and resources to bring 2-4 weapons every trimester, let's instead work on that last update. Let it be the last push of content for the game.
I believe it's the wisest move to do. The game is becoming more bloated than the Abomination at that point.
Until then, I believe it's wishful thinking to ask for a finalized upgrade system for example. It's probably gonna happen in KF3. Just like the Objective Mode.
So I guess we could have 2-3 "official" maps (as in, made by Tripwire) to settle it out regarding the lore (just like they did in KF1), give a T5 to the remaining perks. Make a HUGE balance patch as an ultimate update. Then move on.
And not just a patch that tweaks one or two skills or weapons. A proper overhaul of the medic and survivalist is more than due. And if the resources are just "not there" anymore... Then let's spare it ! Instead of spending time and resources to bring 2-4 weapons every trimester, let's instead work on that last update. Let it be the last push of content for the game.
I believe it's the wisest move to do. The game is becoming more bloated than the Abomination at that point.
Kinda going off what you have to say with bringing closure to the game, I think that you are missing a rework to gamemodes as an option. A large majority of the player base are still on survival since its the base mode, plus it is the most stable and well constructed mode compared to the rest. Granted weeklies are getting some stuff (despite the fact that it took them a few years) but there are a few other modes that are left in the dust; Vs Survival, endless etc.
I wish that they continue their current trend of going back to their game modes and improving upon them. I do wish that, for example, they went back to endless mode and updated it to work similarly to Zedternal, where there is more chaos beyond a couple FP and Scrakes, and the custom class maker from level 0. Atleast from there the mode is distinguishable against long 10 wave survival and it offers something different like weeklies (should) do.
I fully agree, but at the same time... I doubt it's even doable at that time. A better way to make Endless interesting would be to make it even crazier, maybe even more random. I proposed some sort of "roguelike" option. But even if a very well-made mod already does that, a fully-fledged official roguelike mod would need quite the resources I think. Same thing for Versus... If we can even make that mod viable. I personally believe that Killing Floor just isn't made for versus. It's not Left 4 Dead, most zeds don't have very interesting capabilities and the mobility is far less pushed forward than in L4D, where you can pretty much jump everywhere, even to areas non-accessible to the human players.
I'm already very impressed that they even went back to add more weeklies. I thought they wouldn't ever touch the core gameplay of the game anymore and just churn out more weapons.
I personally think it won't happen. And I don't even think it should at that point. If they really have to polish out something, make it the core survival gamemode. Even the base mode is perfectible.
I do understand that something like this isn't very likely to happen, but one can dream. Through mods, I have been enlightened that something like this can be achieved, whether it be in KF2 or in the release of KF3.
Obviously versus is going to be far more difficult to overcome but I'm sure that it can be done. While it is considered completely separate from L4D2, it doesn't mean it can't have its own KF twist. When I went into versus I thought it would be similar to that of an arena, survivors have gotta rack up points by killing AI and player controlled Zeds, while the Zeds have gotta sabotage certain areas of the map and kill the survivors. They could take advantage of the secure objective or protect object to force the fight into certain areas of the maps to be treated like an arena (certain maps can and can't work for obvious reasons).
The original idea of Objective mode is a tough sell when you plan to improve on maps that don't need an objective mode tied to them. These kind of games perform better on maps that are more linear, and a large majority of the maps are far from that, so unless you planned to feed the map round-by-round, piece-by-piece, it would never work. I liked the idea of Outpost; gathering intel from a recon base to blow it to smithereens and get to da choppa, but since you can literally go anywhere at any time without any real consequence is trouble in of itself since it begins to feel like survival with mandatory tasks sown into them. So I was exciting myself with the idea of Biotic Labs as an objective mode since being able to take the more linear approach would work far better on a map like BL; you spawn in the reception room clearing it out of Zeds your main goal is to destroy the gene pools and the cloning assembly line. But since you aren't locked in an area of the map you can still do the usual kiting and cheese tactics whilst someone else in your party does all the objectives. (Also I HATE the trader voice for OBJ mode).
We're expecting more weeklies so I won't say any more on the subject *for now hehe*.
True, survival can be improved upon, but this is the formula that has worked since the start and its only been through the addition of secure objective that it has become a little more troublesome. I think that (other than removing the secure objective) the only thing that they can do to survival is tweaks, like they plan to do with the starting cash per round come easter. I wouldn't want them to actually add any new features to survival unless it was directly tied to the map, like Airship with the objectives to keep the blimp afloat (even though you can completely ignore the objectives for some bizarre reason).
Well... no offense, but waiting for openings to strike a killing blow still sounds very L4D-like to me
. And just like Valve's game, you'd need to have a proper team... Arguably even more so than in a Survival game. Because people are freaking dumbasses in casual play. They'll just rush blindly, no strategic or team talks, and being a waste of time. I'm well-aware to whenever you come across a great team, a game can be oh-so satisfying. But I'm afraid it might be more trouble than it's worth. I loved Objective Mode when it was actually... Story maps from KF1. Candlesmoke and the community-famous "Resident Evil Mansion" maps were absolutely awesome, very tough challenges that required a team of veterans and often lasted at least one hour. I believe it should be the best way to do it, should it ever come back. It sure ain't easy, I know the guy from RE1-Mansion worked on it for something like... 4-5 years? With breaks but still. I doubt Tripwire would bring a new one with every update. But once or twice a year (with at least 4-5 of them at launch) would be awesome ! Again, quite similar to L4D, but instead of having a campaign with 3 to 5 maps, you'd get a single, very large one, that just never stops throwing **** at you. And the perk system of course !
As for Survival maps... Honestly, the changes I would see are more related to systems as a whole (like the perk system, the upgrade system, the weapon system...) and thus not directly linked to the mod. It's self-explanatory really. Simple but efficient. Should we tweak the gamemode, I believe adding new zeds or game mechanics would be better than adding some unneeded objectives or such. If we truly want to change the flow of the mod, I think mutators are the way to go. I'm sure modders would be very creative with them.
Voted on...
Better Perk Balances
With the way higher difficulties are currently balanced, it's apparent to me that there's not too much room in flexibility in terms of what perks to play as, much to the point where I'd describe Berserker/Medic/Demo/Commando as the Suicidal Dream Team, which is probably not ideal since the game has one tank, one healer, 3 trash cleaners (SWAT, Commando, Firebug), 2 big game hunters (Demo, Sharpshooter), two jacks of all trades (Survivalist, Gunslinger) and one miscellaneous (Support. Dunno where to lump him since most of his utility comes from ammo resupply rather than zed killing).
I feel like perks need another good looking at if players want to bring their favourite loadouts to higher difficulties, rather than just being there to bump up the wave difficulties without being able to pull their own weight.
Better Syringe Loading Times
I'll be perfectly honest: The Medical Syringe is relegated to the Q key for me because I can name the very few reasons to not carry a Medic Pistol
1. You're a Commando with the HMTECH-401
2. You're a Support with the HMTECH-301
3. Your Survivalist loadout incorporates the HMTECH-201 as your designated trash cleaner, or you're playing SWAT for whatever reason and are using the aforementioned Medic SMG.
4. You're a Medic with literally any other weapon with a healing dart and you already maxed out your weapon capacity.
The point i'm trying to make is that the Medic Pistol in its current balancing is the new Killing Floor 1 syringe, and the Killing Floor 2 syringe isn't.
Better Weapons
Yeah, I know that we'll only get HRG guns as freebies moving forward, though I think this is still worth voting for mainly because they can still fulfill the "Better Weapons" vote by evaluating weapons that are currently underpowered or otherwise not satisfying to use. The Berserker's Katana's the first thing that comes to mind, honestly.
Better Outbreaks
I'm glad that we're getting new updates for 2021. I might actually start playing KF2 again outside of just building my holiday cosmetic collection.
Better Perk Balances
With the way higher difficulties are currently balanced, it's apparent to me that there's not too much room in flexibility in terms of what perks to play as, much to the point where I'd describe Berserker/Medic/Demo/Commando as the Suicidal Dream Team, which is probably not ideal since the game has one tank, one healer, 3 trash cleaners (SWAT, Commando, Firebug), 2 big game hunters (Demo, Sharpshooter), two jacks of all trades (Survivalist, Gunslinger) and one miscellaneous (Support. Dunno where to lump him since most of his utility comes from ammo resupply rather than zed killing).
I feel like perks need another good looking at if players want to bring their favourite loadouts to higher difficulties, rather than just being there to bump up the wave difficulties without being able to pull their own weight.
Better Syringe Loading Times
I'll be perfectly honest: The Medical Syringe is relegated to the Q key for me because I can name the very few reasons to not carry a Medic Pistol
1. You're a Commando with the HMTECH-401
2. You're a Support with the HMTECH-301
3. Your Survivalist loadout incorporates the HMTECH-201 as your designated trash cleaner, or you're playing SWAT for whatever reason and are using the aforementioned Medic SMG.
4. You're a Medic with literally any other weapon with a healing dart and you already maxed out your weapon capacity.
The point i'm trying to make is that the Medic Pistol in its current balancing is the new Killing Floor 1 syringe, and the Killing Floor 2 syringe isn't.
Better Weapons
Yeah, I know that we'll only get HRG guns as freebies moving forward, though I think this is still worth voting for mainly because they can still fulfill the "Better Weapons" vote by evaluating weapons that are currently underpowered or otherwise not satisfying to use. The Berserker's Katana's the first thing that comes to mind, honestly.
Better Outbreaks
I'm glad that we're getting new updates for 2021. I might actually start playing KF2 again outside of just building my holiday cosmetic collection.
100% correct on this. KF2 has accomplished what it needed to - pushed the series forward in many ways and laid out groundwork that can be expanded upon in KF3 (weapon upgrades, multiple bosses, new game modes). The novelty of KF2 has worn off and I don't think the playerbase is going to expand any more from what it is.
My personal opinion is that Tripwire already shifted priority to KF3 some time ago. I would be very shocked if significant time has not already been spent planning KF3 and testing early development ideas, if not more.
Even if Tripwire could make a fun versus mode (and I really don't think they did a BAD job), the playerbase has made it clear that they don't care about such a mode. This is not why we play Killing Floor. PvE is a completely different and in many ways more relaxing experience than PvP. I think many people who were drawn to Killing Floor stick with the game precisely because the game does PvE SO WELL. They are not looking for PvP, and if they were there are many PvP games that can do that better than Tripwire can.
So much nostalgia...PLEASE Tripwire, this is what objective mode in this game is supposed to be. I understand you cannot make stuff as lengthy as Candlesmoke, Perdition, RE-1 Mansion, etc. because you have so much going on, but let the community do it for you! Give us the tools to accomplish stuff like that.
As for Tripwire's Objective mode...maps like FrightYard, Transit, Steamland...were done excellently! Unique objectives that really felt as if they fit with the map. Not generic WELD THIS, ESCORT THAT objectives. We want objective maps to feel like they have a real story that was carefully crafted. We want every objective to make us think, "wow, okay THIS is going to be fun."
There is so much potential for Objective mode in KF3 and so many players like myself ready to sink hundreds of hours into this mode. But if it is going to be half-baked, as it was in KF2, please just don't waste your time on it.
Maybe... Possibly? I mean, I doubt it's over for Killing Floor as a franchise. I have no proper numbers to back up such claims, but I believe it is their most successful games as of yet, although they certainly have some renown for Red Orchestra as well. Now truth be told, holding series close to your heart doesn't mean that they will never end. And even if from a business standpoint, pleasing the fans and going for the big bucks seems like a no-brainer... I'm one of those naive people who still believe that you can't force art to happen.
So with everyone being so sure that a third game is cooking, I'll just that it remains to be seen. I would LOVE to ! I would get excited just as much as when KF2 was revealed. But I'm a bit wary... Maybe a spin-off is instead planned? Maybe they have nothing to announce as of yet because it's too early on. Or maybe nothing is cooking at all and they're working on a new franchise (or another one than Killing Floor) ! Again, if they don't abandon the saga, it's plausible that they would want to leave it on hold for a short while.
Thing is, KF2 was announced I believe a few months (or maybe a full year?) after KF1's last update rolled out. And well... Killing Floor 2 is apparently in for another year at the very least, with no announcement regarding an eventual "end of the line 2.0", again, I would hope that they're smart enough not to end up with a whimper rather than a bang. They have other matters to attend to, but even if the past year or so have been a bit disappointing, I'm hopeful that we'll get something better to close that chapter.
(Oh and I agree with your other two comments, hence why I won't comment further. I think PvP just isn't the game's forte while the objective mode could bring some much-appreciated lore while also being a fun twist to the regular PvE formula... It would maybe lack some replay value after a while, but just for the challenge and the prize of knowing more about the universe of the game would be neat)
I believe and insist that it would be a good visual aid, to add a sound or a symbol in the player's crosshairs, when a shot or a blow hits the bots (Zeds) which will give you a clear visualization that you hit the shot already that currently KF2 does not have it where you only shoot and shoot and you do not know if it hits or not, Optional add the damage on the screen (floating text) that is done to the bots either by a long shot (low damage) or close range (high damage), a shot to the head (high damage), body (medium damage), legs or arms (low damage) it is obvious to vary the damage depending on where it hits
I'm usually against the idea of adding diversity for the sake of it. It doesn't feel sincere and more like a way to fill up a quota, as if to say "look how progressive we are ! We just added the character you wanted, happy now?"
It also doesn't help that Killing Floor does very little with its characters... As in they barely interact with each other the way Left 4 Dead does for example. And obviously, they all play the same. And since it's an FPS game, well...You can't even see their cool outfits anyway.
BUT. It is true that three female characters, including one which is behind a paywall, is depressingly low. Considering how many people wanted to see Ash Harding back, it's fairly baffling they didn't bring it back... and instead opted for Mrs Foster, which is arguably just a redo of the Fostinator himself. Maybe the original voice actress wasn't available? It's a shame anyway, plus considering she's actually military, it would have made more sense for her to be a mercenary than Rae the data analyst or Ana the punk who loves pipebombs.
I personally would have loved a move similar to the addition of Classic Briar and Masterson... How could would that have been if they brought back the Trader from KF1 with new lines? Of course, it would be non-canon, just like Classic Briar/Masterson surely are, but it would have been a great gift to the OG players nonetheless.
Finally however, I believe Tripwire said (and I'll be cautious saying so this time considering I was approximating last time I said something similar) that the DLC characters didn't sell as much as they hopped for. And considering they hired actors of quite the caliber (Claudia Lee Black and Gary Busey), that's fairly disappointing indeed. Making new characters costs money ! It's not just making a new model and coming up with a backstory : you actually have to hire a voice actor and this can be (justifyingly) expensive. Something they probably aren't willing to do so late within Killing Floor 2's lifespan.
And again, considering there's very little incentive to choose any character over another, except for personal preference, I can understand both Tripwire having different priorities...and gamers being happy with what they have. No offense to Gary Busey nor Tripwire, but I'm personally not willing to pay 10 bucks for a character that won't change how I play the game...No matter how fun and well-voiced he is.