What I've been seeing in the past months...

  • Please make sure you are familiar with the forum rules. You can find them here: https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?threads/forum-rules.2334636/
Makino

Makino

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 9, 2005
576
86
0
Brazil
www.hitconfirm.com.br
Nenjin said:
I've been here since KF. *points up* That's not as long as the really old RO hands, but long enough I feel like I can say something about how comments get interpreted here.

1. Rude feedback, even totally justified, gets you nowhere, with anyone. You don't walk into someone's house and piss on their carpet and expect not to get slapped for being a *****.

2. Exaggerated feedback isn't tolerated much better, even if it's structured or put in a 45 paragraph post.

3. Honest feedback, delivered calmly and not posted by reflex (ie. when there are 5 threads on the first page) gets read and allowed to stand.

4. You have to have a semi-thick skin around here. TWI moderators do not baby sit every comment.

5. TWI moderators DO have good memories. If you repeat the same complaint (whine, lulzy statement, troll, whatever) in every thread you can, they'll remember it and they'll moderate you accordingly. Simply put, if you're being a whiny ***** every time you post, even as you steadfastly claim to be a community member, you're going to get treated like a whiny *****.

It's not like this is even special to the TWI. This is just netiquette in general. The only real thing that stands out about the TWI forums is there is a fair amount of elitism here. On good days, it's done in good humor. Lately, since the roll up to release, it's becoming an annoying meme spewed by people who want to fit in.
Click to expand...

True facts.

It works everywhere, if you want to complain about something and be heard, do it:

- In an educated manner. Raging/Sarcasm gets you nowhere.
- Concise, don't need to repeat the same thing many times on the same post.
- If you say something, try to back it with arguments. Yeah, you think thing x is a problem but you cant assume ppl know what you are implying if you dont argumentate.
- Don't DEMAND things, its rude.
 
D

daschewy

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 9, 2006
1,514
16
0
34
Yuppie
The customer is rarely right, when I worked at Kroger (a supermarket) I dont know how many times Ive been *****ed at for something being a couple of cents off the supposed price they claimed. When we sent someone to check theyd ***** and moan we were wasting their time. In the end they were mistaken and they would ask to talk to a manager. I wanted to kill them so badly but what could we do. After finishing high school I swore to god there was no ****ing way I was going to work a job like that ever again.

The current job Im working its that magnified by 100, nothing is more annoying than a project engineer telling a control engineer how to do his job.

I honestly dont care TWI has pulled through in the past and I dont see why they cant do it again. The changes this game has gone through from 1.2 to RO 2 are massive and they deserve props for pushing it through. I just wish they had delayed the game a few more weeks or cut out features that seemed to work inconsistently at least for release and then patch them in later.
 
Last edited:
Extension7

Extension7

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 22, 2010
1,766
323
0
East Coast USA
www.createphpbb.com
Makino said:
The real problem i see in this is when the complaint is done in a non-constructive way.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I didn't really think I had to mention that. It's not that I hate the people complaining, I side with them in my head most of the time too.

It's just that when people complain in a cruel, troll-like, angry way, then demand things, THAT'S what the forums are more often coming to these days.
 
Nenjin

Nenjin

Grizzled Veteran
Apr 30, 2009
3,879
480
83
Sub-Level 12
I didn't see RO2 as being a "bid" or a "AAA expected game". The game is a sequal to a amazing old shooter, that lots of people still played at the time. It was to have amped up graphics, and features. The only thing they did different this time was the PR.
Click to expand...

I didn't see this earlier.

I totally disagree. From the size of the game, to the amount of features, the polish points like the SP campaign, the whole look of the game, and most importantly, the PR....

TWI wants in to the AAA market with this game. That's who they're marketing it to. Don't let the less-than-$60 price tag fool you, or the size of their team, which is by far smaller than most recognized AAA dev houses.

Or you can just compare the peak player counts of the two games. I think that really says it all.
 
L

luciferintears

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 3, 2011
1,122
510
0
Extremity said:
I do think TWI's massive PR was a really good thing and a really bad thing.

Brought more people to love, play, and buy RO2

But it also brought more people to whine, complain, and critisize the game.
Click to expand...


complaints and criticism are good things; they are the driving force behind change.

If we did not complain or criticize, then chances are TWI wouldnt put in so much effort patching. Why would they, we are all content?
 
Nenjin

Nenjin

Grizzled Veteran
Apr 30, 2009
3,879
480
83
Sub-Level 12
luciferintears said:
If we did not complain or criticize, then chances are TWI wouldnt put in so much effort patching. Why would they, we are all content?
Click to expand...

Because they're not content. TWI stays with their games. KF by comparison in scope is a tiny B title, and yet they put out tons of maps, did several large community-driven balance passes, hosted map making contest, added new content and then continued on with free and low-priced DLC just for flavor.

They even did the holiday reskins...which kept them busy and earned them exactly zero dollars other than new sales on Steam.

Most major games never grow beyond their original designs without paid DLC, and even that is generally just adding more of what's already there. TWI tend to grow over time.

As I put it somewhere else on RO2, I'd rather have a dev try to do too much so they see a future for their game, then do too little and just take their monies and start plotting a new profit engine.
 
Last edited:
Extension7

Extension7

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 22, 2010
1,766
323
0
East Coast USA
www.createphpbb.com
Nenjin said:
I didn't see this earlier.

I totally disagree. From the size of the game, to the amount of features, the polish points like the SP campaign, the whole look of the game, and most importantly, the PR....

TWI wants in to the AAA market with this game. That's who they're marketing it to. Don't let the less-than-$60 price tag fool you, or the size of their team, which is by far smaller than most recognized AAA dev houses.

Or you can just compare the peak player counts of the two games. I think that really says it all.
Click to expand...

I'm actually surprised at how the game ran out, and how they had to delay it due to mass pre-orders. They get good support unpayed from various companies/speakers/youtube stars and that makes me happy ^_^

Now that I think about it, what defines a AAA game these days? The graphics? The PR? Or the quality? Or maybe it's the companies who slave to make the learning curve a straight road?

I'd actually really like to know what you guys think makes a game/company AAA...
 
Nenjin

Nenjin

Grizzled Veteran
Apr 30, 2009
3,879
480
83
Sub-Level 12
Now that I think about it, what defines a AAA game these days? The graphics? The PR? Or the quality? Or maybe it's the companies who slave to make the learning curve a straight road?
Click to expand...

It's an interesting question with no solid answer. It's unclear who even really defines it, the consumers or the dev houses.

In the end, I think it's largely marketing. When you're rolling out full-page ads, in return for which paid journalists are writing big spreads on your game...when you're referencing yourself to the whole market paradigm to begin with.....you're AAA.

Your game may not be however. I play a ton of indie games, and I consider indie a game or dev house that doesn't court the media; the media courts them. Ever heard of Terraria? A tiny group of guys that made a game in 6 months and literally made $1 million within a few weeks of launch. When the internet saw what they were making, it ****ing flipped out and made them rich.

Are they AAA? I'd say no. Because they wouldn't call themselves AAA. Would Tripwire call themselves AAA right now, at this moment? Now _that's_ a question I wouldn't mind an answer to.
 
L

luciferintears

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 3, 2011
1,122
510
0
Nenjin said:
Because they're not content. TWI stays with their games. KF by comparison in scope is a tiny B title, and yet they put out tons of maps, did several large community-driven balance passes, hosted map making contest, added new content and then continued on with free and low-priced DLC just for flavor.

They even did the holiday reskins...which kept them busy and earned them exactly zero dollars other than new sales on Steam.

Most major games never grow beyond their original designs without paid DLC, and even that is generally just adding more of what's already there. TWI tend to grow over time.

As I put it somewhere else on RO2, I'd rather have a dev try to do too much so they see a future for their game, then do too little and just take their monies and start plotting a new profit engine.
Click to expand...

That's true.

However i feel that happens soley because the developer really enjoys what they're doing.

with the risk of sounding sort of gay im going to say that, when playing RO and KF i could feel the amount of love that went into the games. They did it not for money, but because they TRULY enjoyed it.

I'm not getting that same vibe from RO2; seems a bit souless to me, if that makes any sense...

As a programmer its happened to me as well. Occasionally i get a project that i just cant put down. I go above and beyond whats needed because im enjoying the whole creative process. Then there are times when i get a project that i quite frankly half-***; i work on it until it runs, fix any major issues and then get rid of it.
 
S

sprinkles

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 29, 2006
46
6
0
I think its a bit ridiculous to say that the people "complaining" aren't being calm. Really, you must not go on a lot of online game forums. If there wasn't any complaining about complainers, this forum would be the most humane I've probably posted on.
 
Nenjin

Nenjin

Grizzled Veteran
Apr 30, 2009
3,879
480
83
Sub-Level 12
with the risk of sounding sort of gay im going to say that, when playing RO and KF i could feel the amount of love that went into the games. They did it not for money, but because they TRULY enjoyed it.

I'm not getting that same vibe from RO2; seems a bit souless to me, if that makes any sense...
Click to expand...

Well, you're a programmer so you get it.

I know where you're coming from with KF vs. RO2 and how you feel. To me, I still feel the love. You don't make tank interiors like that because you're serving a market need, you make stuff like that because you can't sleep at night without seeing ****ing tank interiors in your dreams.

If RO2 feels like it lacks that "certain something" KF did.....again, I point to what RO2 wants to be. TWI didn't face the pressure to succeed they did with KF. They didn't set themselves up for that kind of stress. They didn't plot a game that would cause them that kind of stress. In trying to reach deadline, you make sacrifices and one of the first things is getting stuff to that "certain something" that equals magic.

All that mushy philosophical crap aside, the game is great IMO. Magic? Maybe if it had worked flawlessly on release. As it is, I'll settle for post-release magic.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom