Ofcourse not, but im judging the product as it stands today.
Too many people on this forum all talk about how great the future will be when they know nothing about what we can expect and how long it will take.
What do YOU think about zooming in?
- Thread starter Cyper
- Start date
Too many people on this forum all talk about how great the future will be when they know nothing about what we can expect and how long it will take.
I like the ironsight zoom, i also liked it when DH added it to their mod, but i do think the secondary zoom when pressing shift is overkill, and really just serves to make scoped weapons redundant.
There's no choice for liking one but not the other in the poll options though, so not gonna vote
There's no choice for liking one but not the other in the poll options though, so not gonna vote
Zoom does not make scoped weapons useless. While using the shift zoom, you are actually at 1x zoom(ie no zoom). The PU scope mounted on the Mosin-Nagant and SVT-40 is a 4x scope, that "4x" is applied on top of the 'zoom' gained by pressing shift or whatever key you use, it is not 4x zoom applied to your 70
RO 1 didn't need that kind of zoom and it was fine. I shot enemies in RO1 at all kinds of ranges so I'd like to see it gone. I fully agree with op.
I like that TW has given players the ability to see, recognize, and engage enemies at realistic distances. What I don't like is that the current maps are way too small, and this added feature only encourages (a substantial number of players) to sit back and try to relive Enemy at the Gates.
QFT.
The feature is great. I love not feeling like I left my glasses at home. The problem is we don't have room to stretch out and really use it.
Still have your vision? Because targets you should be able to see normally were just one pixel in RO1. But maybe you like squinting .
If you want to see people in-game as you see IRL, buy yourself image projector and enjoy the view. As it stand in game it gives you megazoom so you can camp all day. It would be OK if zoom was lower to the degree where you can actually see people without zoom and use zoom to make it bit easier not to gain eagle vision.
Verdict is: nutshot for every zoom lover.
p.s. even if your so called realistic view (zoom) is somehow realistic, then tell me why cant I zoom IRL? The part of realism that people dont care about. Just give them excuse to make zoom "realistic", they dont need anything else.
edit: Distance fog on lowest video settings is much worse than on medium. Can somebody explain realism or balance here? Or why doesnt zoom allow to partially see through fog (same as if you had higher video settings)? Zoom is ment to make everyone equal and allow people to see like they do IRL... yea right.
p.s. lowerst settings lags more than medium on my PC... damn it!
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God I hate this stupid argument.
Your field of vision isn't constrained to 30 degrees in real life. Try a little experiment. Trace your monitor against a cardboard box and cut out a monitor-sized hole in the box. Go outside, put the box on your head, and try to perform an activity (play a sport or something). You'll notice that it's really flipping hard, as you don't have any peripheral vision.
To overcome this, computer monitors take all of that peripheral information and squishes it into the edges of your screen, distorting your view. It makes everything look much farther away than it would be in real life, but it also lets you see what's going on in the corners of your vision.
The "zoom" merely gets rid of that peripheral imformation and shows you what you would see if you were looking through the box on your head. No peripheral, but everything is brought into actual scale, meaning you can properly judge distances and see what your normal human eyes would see.
It's a field of view switch, not a zoom feature. Your eyes can't zoom because they're not constrained to a 22" two dimensional plane sitting a foot away from your head. Mechanics must be built for that 2d plane to accurately represent reality.
I've seen that copypaste, whats use posting it again. Box on head or box on other part of the body I cant see that well IRL even if I magically focus onto something. If I cant see it I simply cant, even if try. But I can walk and look wherever I want and I know that if I can barely see a guy on the other side of a field its the same for him, he can barely see me. IRL you dont have vision of mole that can be changed into normal vision.
p.s. zoom is too big anyway, no way that guy a few steps away from me has a such a big face (with real life zoom on) that it seems like he's triing to kiss me.
p.p.s. There's an option for FoV, if you feel blind, tune it down a bit. But dont give me that god-vision button.
p.p.p.s. Toggable vision bonus is way less realistic than being able to see a little less than you do IRL. Its a game, game.
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tl;dr on most of the thread.
Just thought I would jump in to say that the zooming in is scientifically based on bringing the game to a 1:1 scale ( AKA what YOU would see if you were there ).
That being said afaik, there are some scaling issues that will make it larger then life or smaller then life on some monitors. I am not sure what size of monitor was used as a baseline. Perhaps some extra code is needed to deal with larger monitor resolutions, and if possible the actual size of the monitor ( Not sure if that is data the computer knows, but it should be available from some windows service / dll .....)
Speaking tactically. The maps in Hos are at best the same size, or a fraction larger then Ost. When you account for the improper scaling in Ost that made people look 2x further away then they really were, AND the compressed vision, it is now safe to say its probably 5x ( arbitrary number ) easier to see and hit people at range. Yet the maps are not much larger then before, and designed to funnel people so the average combat distance is probably 50M. What we need here are some large maps that let people shoot at eachother from 200 - 600 M without the bloody fog of war effect that is currently ingame on all maps. This will also help to actually differentiate the weapons, and put SMGS and rifles onto their own playing fields. As of now a mp40 can easily engage or surpress at 180-200M, at 400 it will be useless.
Just thought I would jump in to say that the zooming in is scientifically based on bringing the game to a 1:1 scale ( AKA what YOU would see if you were there ).
That being said afaik, there are some scaling issues that will make it larger then life or smaller then life on some monitors. I am not sure what size of monitor was used as a baseline. Perhaps some extra code is needed to deal with larger monitor resolutions, and if possible the actual size of the monitor ( Not sure if that is data the computer knows, but it should be available from some windows service / dll .....)
Speaking tactically. The maps in Hos are at best the same size, or a fraction larger then Ost. When you account for the improper scaling in Ost that made people look 2x further away then they really were, AND the compressed vision, it is now safe to say its probably 5x ( arbitrary number ) easier to see and hit people at range. Yet the maps are not much larger then before, and designed to funnel people so the average combat distance is probably 50M. What we need here are some large maps that let people shoot at eachother from 200 - 600 M without the bloody fog of war effect that is currently ingame on all maps. This will also help to actually differentiate the weapons, and put SMGS and rifles onto their own playing fields. As of now a mp40 can easily engage or surpress at 180-200M, at 400 it will be useless.
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If the distance fog is applied due for the same reasons as in DH we wont be seeing longer engagement ranges than those we see now unless the maps will be barren wastelands so the game effect for the Zoon/FOV change will remain the same - which is a zoom effect which makes it impossible for players to hide anywhere unless totally obstructed from view and thus not combat effective.
I don't expect to see any maps which will offer long range combat for RO:HoS - ever...
Zooming is a FOV change in real life where the small FOV from a scope/binocular is projected to the eyes FOV thus making it appear larger, by making it look like it takes up the entirety of the FOV instead of only a few degrees, than with normal vision though with less brightness and blurring due to less light hitting the retina than when viewing normally. This is the exact same effect a FPS game's FOV change does - it takes a small FOV and projects to the screen a larger image than one would normally be able to see on the screen due to hardware limitations, only difference is that the brightness is not lost nor is there blurring of the image.
So yes FOV change is zoom - whether one likes it or not is a totally different matter but I would not call it realistic. Realistic would be using 3 screens/1 huge one set up to encompass the entire field of view with differential FOV for Width and Height to match IRL eyesight.
I'm fine with having zoom/FOV change in the game but right now due to the small engagement ranges it takes away my sense of actually achieving something hard when shooting someone - If the RKKA and Wehrmacht had as good a hit accuracy IRL as the worst RO:HoS player WWII would have been over by a years time when the battle for Stalingrad began due to the countless millions more killed by aimed rifle and MG shots, remember it literally took thousands of rounds to make a single enemy kill not 1-3 like we see in this game. Firing range accuracy is one thing shooting at a living human being while being shot at your self is an entirely different matter...
If there aren't made any long range maps for RO:HoS due to distance fog being necessary for the maps to function without lag I would rather that the Zoom/FOV change be taken out so at least we can get the illusion of longer ranges by having too small game world dimensions displayed in order to make the firefights harder by making it harder to see the enemy - this will also add realism by making players expend more ammuniton per enemy KIA.
UE 2.5 is AFAIK, completely single threaded. ( heck lets test ).
Booting up RO 1, going practise and using the cheat command "loaded" gives me 999 grenades, now suiciding forces the game to spawn 999 objects at my feet, maxing out the game for long enough to see only one core jumping up in usage.
Luckily though UE3 is atleast basically multithreaded and can stretch out to quite a few threads, but depends on a main thread that designates work ( to the best of my understanding of its work distribution ). Note there are still threads for physics, sound, etc ( the big guys ), small work gets designated out.
Anyways. RO1 maxed out around 1400M view distance, that amount would be fine for an infantry map in HOS, even now view distance is maxing out aound 300-400M. Its longer on Gumrak, no idea how much longer. It really shouldent be all that hard to make a map like berezinia slightly stretched out and give the players a VD of 800-1500M. ( Heck at 1500M you can use them volley sights, and SS the shyte out of any lucky kills ).
Im not saying this would be easy, the game probably culls all the trees from even being drawn at a range of 1000M, this is something that will need to be worked on.
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i dont like, and i especially dont like the way it's implemented.
ARMA2 does it better:
click right mouse button to aim. HOLD right mouse button to zoom.
I dont like having to jam my pinky against the shift button the whole time. Then again it works in ARMA2 because the maps are massive. In RO2's corridor and choke infested maps, it turns every gun into a sniper rifle.
ARMA2 does it better:
click right mouse button to aim. HOLD right mouse button to zoom.
I dont like having to jam my pinky against the shift button the whole time. Then again it works in ARMA2 because the maps are massive. In RO2's corridor and choke infested maps, it turns every gun into a sniper rifle.
+1 to all of this.
The zoom/FoV switch would work better if it didn't share a button with sprint, and the reason everyone hates it is because the maps are too claustrophobic. I can't wait for the big, open maps to roll out. Everyone will be appreciating the system then.
it's very easy to set zoom to its own discrete button. there is a function called "exclusiveFocus" in ROInput.
Check off "disable sprint key zoom" in game, find something similar to this in ROInput.ini:
Change "ThumbMouseButton" to whatever key you want bound to zoom, and presto.
Check off "disable sprint key zoom" in game, find something similar to this in ROInput.ini:
Code:
Bindings=(Name="ExclusiveFocus",Command="Button bExclusiveFocus",Control=False,Shift=False,Alt=False,bIgnoreCtrl=False,bIgnoreShift=False,bIgnoreAlt=False)
Bindings=(Name="ThumbMouseButton",Command="ExclusiveFocus",Control=False,Shift=False,Alt=False,bIgnoreCtrl=False,bIgnoreShift=False,bIgnoreAlt=False)Change "ThumbMouseButton" to whatever key you want bound to zoom, and presto.
I use scroll of raise dead!
Just a thought about my dislike of zoom. I dont like it because even if its "real life vision" and not a zoom, it, still, doesnt allow the person without zoom to see the enemy shooting at him because the enemy is too far to see it with "normal" vision but the enemy have no problems seeing the poor guy (and camping). What I propose is to make muzzle flash more visible to people without zoom. While its not very realistic (zoom feature isnt realistic either) it'll allow people w/o zoom to see their enemies' muzzle flash like if they had a zoom (a gameplay feature, "real life vision" is a gameplay feature too). I think/hope it will appease both parties.
Just a thought about my dislike of zoom. I dont like it because even if its "real life vision" and not a zoom, it, still, doesnt allow the person without zoom to see the enemy shooting at him because the enemy is too far to see it with "normal" vision but the enemy have no problems seeing the poor guy (and camping). What I propose is to make muzzle flash more visible to people without zoom. While its not very realistic (zoom feature isnt realistic either) it'll allow people w/o zoom to see their enemies' muzzle flash like if they had a zoom (a gameplay feature, "real life vision" is a gameplay feature too). I think/hope it will appease both parties.