What do YOU think about zooming in?
- Thread starter Cyper
- Start date
I think zoom is very much needed. I have a very difficult time seeing players in HOS. Although, I think it should only zoom when you bring the sights up. I don't think it would take anything away from the game if it was like this, but it really needs to be auto so that it feels more natural.
That would be terrible. As I have it set up there is no zoom until I press the shift key, because IS become useless in close quarters and the zoom decreases your FOV when observing the battlefield. So, when I see an enemy at a range I zoom in to take a shot, and zoom out to regain my FOV back.
I do like the suggestion I read elsewhere (I forget where) where another game zooms in a little if you tap RMB, and if you hold it it'll zoom in all the way. Seems a lot more fluid, and it'll free up the shift key to eliminate accidental sprinting...
I'm against the second level of zoom for two reasons, but first I need to prefix my reasoning with something else:
I understand why the zoom is in game. I completely understand how FOV works and how it relates to computer monitors, I also completely understand why Tripwire decided to implement it as being able to represent correct size at range and proper range itself is important in some regards.
Now I've made that clear, I've two reasons why I think that the second level should be tweaked if not removed:
1) It's trying to fix something that's broken (normal 75 fov and related skewing of perception of size) yet works fine by applying something that is so jarring it could be classed a broken itself (despite it mathematically being correct).
The saying "Two wrongs don't make a right" is apt.
2) Gameplay.
As good as it is being able to accurately represent size and range, there's some big gameplay issues.
The lesser problem is the current maps being too small, especially the infantry only maps.
The bigger problem is that when combined with the rightfully accurate rifles, it nullifies snipers and turns the other guns into laser rifles of doom.
The really big thing for me though is that the second zoom feels incredibly wrong functioning as it does when you hold down the keybind for holding your breath.
I've been mulling over solutions and I've been edging around the following:
- Remove second zoom completely but in order to at least keep some range awareness, up the first ADS zoom to be somewhere inbetween the two, if not actually up to the same as second zoom.
This could go either way, might not make much difference, but it'll certainly feel a bit less jarring by having to press a second key to zoom (obviously you'd still do it to hold your breath).
- Remove the zooming entirely from ADS.
Obviously this will leave you with the problem that 50 meters looks like 100, but if you're honest, would it really be so bad?
Lots of other games function perfectly well without the zoom function and skewed sizes. It would certainly make camping harder and also make snipers worth while.
The real question here is not if zooming is correct or not, but if it's good for the game. I personally think that the answer is "No, it's not good for the game".
I understand why the zoom is in game. I completely understand how FOV works and how it relates to computer monitors, I also completely understand why Tripwire decided to implement it as being able to represent correct size at range and proper range itself is important in some regards.
Now I've made that clear, I've two reasons why I think that the second level should be tweaked if not removed:
1) It's trying to fix something that's broken (normal 75 fov and related skewing of perception of size) yet works fine by applying something that is so jarring it could be classed a broken itself (despite it mathematically being correct).
The saying "Two wrongs don't make a right" is apt.
2) Gameplay.
As good as it is being able to accurately represent size and range, there's some big gameplay issues.
The lesser problem is the current maps being too small, especially the infantry only maps.
The bigger problem is that when combined with the rightfully accurate rifles, it nullifies snipers and turns the other guns into laser rifles of doom.
The really big thing for me though is that the second zoom feels incredibly wrong functioning as it does when you hold down the keybind for holding your breath.
I've been mulling over solutions and I've been edging around the following:
- Remove second zoom completely but in order to at least keep some range awareness, up the first ADS zoom to be somewhere inbetween the two, if not actually up to the same as second zoom.
This could go either way, might not make much difference, but it'll certainly feel a bit less jarring by having to press a second key to zoom (obviously you'd still do it to hold your breath).
- Remove the zooming entirely from ADS.
Obviously this will leave you with the problem that 50 meters looks like 100, but if you're honest, would it really be so bad?
Lots of other games function perfectly well without the zoom function and skewed sizes. It would certainly make camping harder and also make snipers worth while.
The real question here is not if zooming is correct or not, but if it's good for the game. I personally think that the answer is "No, it's not good for the game".
Yes. Yes it would be. I'm not controlling my grandfather with his cataracts. I'm controlling a physically fit soldier who can actually see with relative clarity.
I'm sick of short range combat in games. It's bloody stupid that I have to get right up into someone's face in CoD, Counterstrike, Gears of War, Halo, etc. etc. etc. in order to even phase them for "balance" sake.
Guns are effective long range weapons. Humans are pretty good at taking advantage of the range and power of these weapons. Imagine that.
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But, while moving around, you wouldn't see that opfor 100m away, since you cannot zoom while moving. So you still have cataract when running around. The question that arises is: wouldn't it be better to have cataract all the time?
But, while moving around, you wouldn't see that opfor 100m away, since you cannot zoom while moving. So you still have cataract when running around. The question that arises is: wouldn't it be better to have cataract all the time?
No, because I'm dealing with the constraints of limited hardware.
It's the same reason I don't want a 30 degree FoV all the time. I don't go around with blinders on, human beings have pretty good peripheral, and it would be too obnoxious to go around like I had a cardboard box on my head.
So, zoomed out FoV while running around to give me some peripheral, zoomed in FoV while aiming so I can hit targets at realistic distances.
The only down side is the "immersion breaking" transition, which doesn't bother me in the slightest. I'd much rather have the benefits of both than be tied into one or the other.
True, it makes sense that way, but the problem is that weapons dont behave how they should, no sway after sprint, almost instant ads while sprinting and small maps make it like ARMA II would play on cod2 sized maps. You can easily relax and camp in some window behind the capzones and sniping everyone with a bolt. As it is now the sniper class is useless.
RO2 is not a milsim, so I dont get why it has a zoom like one, e.g arma, but the diffrence is that ARMA has huge maps while RO2 has not.
I like the zoom feature, honestly. I mean, in real life things don't become extremely grainy and hard to see out at 100m. On top of that, I don't know about you guys, but for me when I focus on something for a moment, it's easier to pick out details, though, much like zooming in, it does reduce periprial vision quite a bit.
I think the zoom is perhaps a liiiitle bit too much as it is, though. Personally, I would like to see the zoom function take a moment to engage, and at the same time, slowly losing detail of objects in your periphrial. This could be possibly a blur feature, or maybe darkening and monochome of the screen around the edges (That was grammatically horrible, but I don't know how else to put it). It'd reduce your ability to essentially gain magic binoculars, while giving a better representation of how extensive focus at a single point does indeed make it hard to see if someone's coming up beside you.
I think the zoom is perhaps a liiiitle bit too much as it is, though. Personally, I would like to see the zoom function take a moment to engage, and at the same time, slowly losing detail of objects in your periphrial. This could be possibly a blur feature, or maybe darkening and monochome of the screen around the edges (That was grammatically horrible, but I don't know how else to put it). It'd reduce your ability to essentially gain magic binoculars, while giving a better representation of how extensive focus at a single point does indeed make it hard to see if someone's coming up beside you.
The sniper class -isn't- useless, he's just not as good as the bolts below 150m, as the bolts have more peripheral. There just aren't big enough maps to give the support classes like sniper or MG the chance to really dominate at the ranges they're comfortable with.
I really think that map size is the real problem folks are having with the weapon handling. When we get some sprawling open maps, I think everyone will appreciate the weapon handling a lot more when the long shots are closer to 300-400 meters as opposed to 100-150m.
It's just not that hard to shoot someone across/down the street in real life. We don't have ranges that really test a rifleman yet.
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Meaning, they are useless. At least for now with these maps. I think still that zoom needs to be decreased.
I can outshoot a sniper any day of the week with my trusty K98. Decreasing zoom wouldn't make the sniper more effective IMO, it would just cripple everyone else. I think the only solution for the zoom is RO:Ost-esque maps with gigantic expanses that would be hard to shoot even WITH a scope.
Sniper scope zoom is about 1.5x normal zoom, not much of an advantage. I prefer MG to sniper rifle any day. I dont have to aim that hard, have aim thrown off by reload, worry about ammo, I just pick MG and do 2 more shots if the 1st one missed the target. With that kind of zoom RO2 might as well be a console game. Its just too easy.
Very bad. Pixel hunting stinks and it unrealistically drops your possible engagement ranges to ~150m or so when you should be able to tag people out to 300-400M with an un-scoped rifle and even farther with a MG.
I dont like zoom and I think it is one of the worst gameplay decisions made while creating this game.
Zooming makes hitting your targets far too easy and the sniper obsolete in the current maps becuase (semi-auto) rifles and the Mkb are far superior in these small ranges.
I dont care about the theories of it being realistic because in the end it influences the gameplay in a horrible way.
Zooming makes hitting your targets far too easy and the sniper obsolete in the current maps becuase (semi-auto) rifles and the Mkb are far superior in these small ranges.
I dont care about the theories of it being realistic because in the end it influences the gameplay in a horrible way.
Maybe TWI will sell you a map pack that you have to, uh, buy. Modders will probably create some great maps though.