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Welding: fixing what ain't broke since Killing Floor 2

flashn00b

Grizzled Veteran
  • Feb 1, 2011
    917
    109
    Another copy-paste from the Steam forums, but after seeing the door locks in the new Gorefast trailer, I can't help but think that someone at Tripwire really loathed KF1's welding tool.

    To those unfamiliar, door welding in KF1 and 2 were largely similar, though the huge and most important difference between KF1 and 2 is that whenever a door breaks down in the first game, it immediately respawns at the start of the next trader time.

    KF2 implemented permadeath mechanics to those doors where if a door gets broken down, it's dead for good and respawning it as a Support takes way too long that it's usually not a good idea to waste time reviving them.

    KF3 seems to just do away with welding entirely, replacing the welding tool with a mine that holds the door for a certain amount of hits before detonating the door like a weaker version of Demolitionist's door traps.
     
    Welding, while serving a useful purpose in the KF franchise, hasn't been the most fun and engaging experience.

    Those who will admit they like to play games while staring at a wall and holding down the mouse are a fairly rare group I assume.

    As always, when we develop a new game in a franchise, we like to see how we can bring things forward and improve systems while retaining what people enjoyed about them or the experience they provide.

    In KF 3, one of the gameplay options that players can bring into the field is the explosive locking trap, which can be seen in the new Gorefast reveal video. It is designed to be a great tool to help players hold down locations they want to fight in, while giving them some options.
    • Need that door/hole closed? Explosive Locking Trap is your new best friend
    • Need it closed again? Try deploying another (you did remember to bring a few right?)
    • Want it to last a bit longer or use it in combination with other gadgets? ..... well you'll just have to wait for more reveals!
     
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    I dunno if the locking trap will do much in the long term. If door mechanics are anything like KF2, I imagine the most effective way to flee from zed hordes would be to leave doors unwelded, since even enraged Fleshpounds would take a short pause to politely open unlocked doors, only really raging at them when they've been welded shut.

    If zeds still interact with unlocked doors like they do in KF2, i imagine the door traps might not be all too useful if you can just close the door behind them and keeping them unlocked. The only way i can see the door traps being useful is if zeds will just attack doors indiscriminately.
     
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    Welding has always been implemented extremely awkwardly in these games because it never particularly flows well with the rest of the rooty-tooty-point-'n'-shooty that the games run off, so I won't reflexively say no to anything that shakes it up.

    KF2 implemented permadeath mechanics to those doors where if a door gets broken down, it's dead for good and respawning it as a Support takes way too long that it's usually not a good idea to waste time reviving them.
    I'm going to nitpick the use of "permadeath" here because you absolutely can revive them through the use of a Support specialist. Think about why that mechanic was implemented:

    In KF1, you could hold a door infinitely unless it was broken down by a massively damaging attack that usually flattened it (and any player unlucky enough to be on the receiving end of the same Patriarch rocket, for example, that destroyed the door), but as long as the door didn't explode you could hold that door the entire round as long as it was constantly being welded.
    It wasn't fast by any means, but it fit better with the first game's slower, more deliberate pace.

    Among the many balancing decisions the dev team implemented for KF2 was limited maximum door health, i.e. doors have both a current and maximum hit point total (that is, even if you keep it at 100% current health, the door will eventually explode after it takes enough damage).
    This was done as part of the balancing changes to keep players on their toes with regards to making a hold on the same spot harder, so that you can't cut off an entire avenue for the Zeds to approach by parking a Support at that door and forcing them to hold Mouse1 the entire game. We can attribute this to at least a couple of reasons:
    • to avoid circumventing the devs' intended design of constantly being under threat by getting surrounded
    • it makes for unfun game design having a player devote 45 minutes to an hour of their precious time on this planet to play Welding Simulator while the other players actually get to shoot Zeds
    That said, the devs also knew that they'd need to rebalance welding to give players a reason to use it, hence the ability for Supports to rebuild broken doors and Demos to place explosive traps. So in KF2 you still have to commit to rebuilding and welding doors if you want to make use of them as active tools.

    It's not a universally useful on-demand ability, no, but it's a situational tool that players can absolutely take advantage of when needed. The reason it takes Support so long to rebuild doors in the first place is so you don't have the stopping powers of the full weld nor the trash-killing power of door traps on command; unless you are extremely dedicated and devote entire teams to keeping the Support protected, you can basically get one per round on Hell on Earth.

    To put it another way: if door traps and welding were any better than they currently are, they would absolutely kneecap the game's pacing because so much of it would be dependent on players constantly stopping to weld and trap doors.
    I don't even like the traps that much in KF2 because when players randomly trap doors, it usually isn't to help me out; it forces me to check my fingernails for a few seconds while I wait for the doors to explode and pick off whatever comes through all the fog and smoke, with the Demo smiling knowing that they added a couple of crawlers to their scoreboard count.
    If used badly, they're counterproductive.

    KF3 seems to just do away with welding entirely, replacing the welding tool with a mine that holds the door for a certain amount of hits before detonating the door like a weaker version of Demolitionist's door traps.
    Now we're getting into hypotheticals here, but: If the devs are leaning into more action-oriented mechanics, then something that's faster and less-obtrusive makes sense.
     
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    Welding, while serving a useful purpose in the KF franchise, hasn't been the most fun and engaging experience.

    Those who will admit they like to play games while staring at a wall and holding down the mouse are a fairly rare group I assume.

    As always, when we develop a new game in a franchise, we like to see how we can bring things forward and improve systems while retaining what people enjoyed about them or the experience they provide.

    In KF 3, one of the gameplay options that players can bring into the field is the explosive locking trap, which can be seen in the new Gorefast reveal video. It is designed to be a great tool to help players hold down locations they want to fight in, while giving them some options.
    • Need that door/hole closed? Explosive Locking Trap is your new best friend
    • Need it closed again? Try deploying another (you did remember to bring a few right?)
    • Want it to last a bit longer or use it in combination with other gadgets? ..... well you'll just have to wait for more reveals!
    I really liked being able to weld armored vests to other players in KF1. What memories...
     
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    I really liked being able to weld armored vests to other players in KF1. What memories...
    Uh? Was it a mod or something? Or an ability from the very first KF mod (which I never played) ? Because I can't recall being able to do that in Killing Floor 2009.
    If I recall, very early in KF2's life, the support class could repair armor. It was not well liked, and due to feedback, it was removed. Common feedback was that it led to hand pain, feeling pressured to constantly keep everyone's armor at 100% was distracting, and players would rather shoot things rather than repair the team's armor.
     
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    If I recall, very early in KF2's life, the support class could repair armor. It was not well liked, and due to feedback, it was removed. Common feedback was that it led to hand pain, feeling pressured to constantly keep everyone's armor at 100% was distracting, and players would rather shoot things rather than repair the team's armor.
    Medic certainly could by darting other players. That was dropped with one of the early reworks for basically all those reasons.
    An oft-cited complaint on the various boards was that it turned Medic exclusively into a machine that only hammered out darts from the start to the very end of the match because having armor at all available times was too good to pass up, so you'd mash the dart button the entire game and nothing else.
     
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    Medic certainly could by darting other players. That was dropped with one of the early reworks for basically all those reasons.
    An oft-cited complaint on the various boards was that it turned Medic exclusively into a machine that only hammered out darts from the start to the very end of the match because having armor at all available times was too good to pass up, so you'd mash the dart button the entire game and nothing else.
    That's pretty much what KF1 medic's gameplay was all about too !

    Until he got access to the M7A3 anyway :p
     
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