Weapons in early war
- Thread starter Sanders
- Start date
Yes, and everyone knows the only people that saw any REAL action were the marines. Yea the Army was at Guadalcanal, but by the time they showed up a large portion of the Japenese forces were either defeated or were in hiding.
Pretty safe to say that weapons will be properly implemented where they are documented. And if anything occurs on Guadal I seriously doubt it would involve the US Army.
Which is what I mean by balance. I don't mean "weapon A has to be as strong as weapon B in every situation" when I say balance. When I say "something has to be balanced to be fun", I say that because its not fun when one team has an unfair advantage over the other in a situation where they should be evenly matched.
Edit: Also, overall team balance may be solved by limiting the class-selections, but I am also a firm believer in every class being just as useful to the team overall when played correctly as any other class. Simply because its a lot more fun to play as a rifleman when you know that you are actually affecting the outcome of the battle, rather than everyone fighting over the sniper spots or assault troopers spots or ETC because they know they have an advantage in the majority of situations over a plain rifleman.
Edit: Also, overall team balance may be solved by limiting the class-selections, but I am also a firm believer in every class being just as useful to the team overall when played correctly as any other class. Simply because its a lot more fun to play as a rifleman when you know that you are actually affecting the outcome of the battle, rather than everyone fighting over the sniper spots or assault troopers spots or ETC because they know they have an advantage in the majority of situations over a plain rifleman.
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There are unbalanced maps in ROOST that are fun too.
The assault on Basovka, right at the start where you rush the trenches. The germans are out in the open and the Russians are 'safe' inside their trench systems.
The last part of this map also involves Germans rushing through open terrain to reach the train station, while the Russians are inside of it with quite a few nice shooting points.
Or another map, Kryukovo i believe, which is basically a large open expanse the Germans have to cross, while the Russians can lie low in foxholes taking shots at the advancing enemy. Another great fun map.
To obtain true balance one would have to mirror a map, like 2fort in TF2, with both teams on the attack.
Not exactly the kind of maps one would expect or want in a game like RO.
The assault on Basovka, right at the start where you rush the trenches. The germans are out in the open and the Russians are 'safe' inside their trench systems.
The last part of this map also involves Germans rushing through open terrain to reach the train station, while the Russians are inside of it with quite a few nice shooting points.
Or another map, Kryukovo i believe, which is basically a large open expanse the Germans have to cross, while the Russians can lie low in foxholes taking shots at the advancing enemy. Another great fun map.
To obtain true balance one would have to mirror a map, like 2fort in TF2, with both teams on the attack.
Not exactly the kind of maps one would expect or want in a game like RO.
you can obtain balance in other ways that pure mirroring of a map, (although for competitive purposes you still need to play both sides like you play on both sides of the field in football). Positional advantage as in your examples is just one of many factors that can be used to obtain balance.
A capzone can be super hard but the total map still balanced. A team could be given more time for a capzone, no matter how small the chance of success ,statistically eventually you'll make it. One side can have a shorter spawn time than the other side. One side can spawn closer to the cap than the other side. Weapon load outs could be changed or reinforcements could be lower for one side (although that would only work as a balance method with individual reinf).
Its all about a statistical balance here, aka if you play a map 1000 times that the axis win about 50% of the time. Believe it or not Basovka is actually pretty balanced in that sense (at least in clan matches as I don't have public match statistics). Player amounts and how good sides work as a team affect the balance a bit as well. Which is why its important to know what group of people (could be an average) a map is created for.
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If anything I fear that with countdown we might see too many cap zones that offer hardly any territorial advantage to the defenders, as the balance feature of different reinforcements, respawn time, and spawn distance cannot be used with only 1 life.
Which is exactly why I would like either of the 2 solutions below:
1: Give the attackers some sub objectives, they can clear to respawn, so the attackers can respawn a bit more than the defenders.
2: Allow the attackers to replay an attack for a cap-zone if they loose it for X times. So the defenders loose when the final cap is captured by the attackers, and the defenders win if they win against the attackers for X times.
edit: just created a thread about this
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?p=596865#post596865
A capzone can be super hard but the total map still balanced. A team could be given more time for a capzone, no matter how small the chance of success ,statistically eventually you'll make it. One side can have a shorter spawn time than the other side. One side can spawn closer to the cap than the other side. Weapon load outs could be changed or reinforcements could be lower for one side (although that would only work as a balance method with individual reinf).
Its all about a statistical balance here, aka if you play a map 1000 times that the axis win about 50% of the time. Believe it or not Basovka is actually pretty balanced in that sense (at least in clan matches as I don't have public match statistics). Player amounts and how good sides work as a team affect the balance a bit as well. Which is why its important to know what group of people (could be an average) a map is created for.
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If anything I fear that with countdown we might see too many cap zones that offer hardly any territorial advantage to the defenders, as the balance feature of different reinforcements, respawn time, and spawn distance cannot be used with only 1 life.
Which is exactly why I would like either of the 2 solutions below:
1: Give the attackers some sub objectives, they can clear to respawn, so the attackers can respawn a bit more than the defenders.
2: Allow the attackers to replay an attack for a cap-zone if they loose it for X times. So the defenders loose when the final cap is captured by the attackers, and the defenders win if they win against the attackers for X times.
edit: just created a thread about this
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?p=596865#post596865
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As Tony pointed out, it depends on the scenarios we choose for each location. Marines and Army troops fought on many islands/operations and sometimes in direct support of or in the same Combat teams. If we pick a Marine combat where no Army troops were present, you simply have only Marines to work with. On the other hand, many Japanese units were mixed up in their composition between regular army, Special Landing Forces, etc. and in those cases you may have a wide range of roles/types to choose from. We'll see how things develop as it is too early to tell much as of yet. We are still in a heavy research and proposal stage. But it's always fun to theorize!
..hence these forums guys - keep the suggestions coming
yes....THESE forums
can i suggest to not finish setting up the seperate forums on the new site and instead keep the discussion in this central location?
I'm afraid for the mod to prosper in terms of community we need to loosen the grip of the old TW forum trolls on it and bring in new blood.
Also it means we can banz0r people when WE want, so watch out Chris
hehe - JK, of course.
Also it means we can banz0r people when WE want, so watch out Chris
hehe - JK, of course.
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Which means that your goal is not to be an attachment to the community but a complete separate split off entity
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The goal is to make a successful mod and, if the best way to do that appears to be to create specific RS forums, then they will be created, regardless of how hurt the feelings of one or two kilo-post individuals might be.
I don't want to get into a big debate but these prognostications of doom and gloom are beginning to irk me. We have a mod to make - I will leave all the hand-wringing to you guys.
As regards this forum here - I think that perhaps, if you are very worried, you could start a specific 'RS is killing RO:HoS' thread and post all your worries in that rather than hijacking other threads in this section.
I don't want to get into a big debate but these prognostications of doom and gloom are beginning to irk me. We have a mod to make - I will leave all the hand-wringing to you guys.
As regards this forum here - I think that perhaps, if you are very worried, you could start a specific 'RS is killing RO:HoS' thread and post all your worries in that rather than hijacking other threads in this section.
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Where as your goal is to make the best mod, my goal has always been to try and bring people together in the RO community and help that community as much as possible. Sure I understand and respect your reasons, but that can't stop me from being disappointed as it does the opposite what I try to achieve.
When you respond to our answers and the discussion flows in this direction it's not that rare or weird that we will respond back, if you did not want this discussion you could have asked us to stay on topic or brought your answers to pms. Personally attacking and ridiculing me is not really the nicest way to try and get things done.
My wording perhaps wasn't the best chosen and I truly apologize for that, English isn't my first language, as can be accounted by the weird grammatical constructions and spelling mistakes in my sentences. However I should have been more thoughtful, and I am truly sorry for that.
Anyway I'll leave things be now, this has been derailed too much.
When you respond to our answers and the discussion flows in this direction it's not that rare or weird that we will respond back, if you did not want this discussion you could have asked us to stay on topic or brought your answers to pms. Personally attacking and ridiculing me is not really the nicest way to try and get things done.
My wording perhaps wasn't the best chosen and I truly apologize for that, English isn't my first language, as can be accounted by the weird grammatical constructions and spelling mistakes in my sentences. However I should have been more thoughtful, and I am truly sorry for that.
Anyway I'll leave things be now, this has been derailed too much.
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that's all i meant by my statements as well. appologies if any of you RS guys took it the wrong way. if you want, i'll be happy to make a new thread (in these forums
) to discuss the suggestion to avoid anymore thread derailment 
NOOOOOOOO!
I'll join anyway, another forum to showcase my superrior spamming skills.
NOOOOOOOO!
I'll join anyway, another forum to showcase my superrior spamming skills.
you are always welcome
you are always welcome
Just watch out, I once managed over 150 posts on a board in my first day.