Weapons becoming shinier with use -- Does that make sense?!

  • Please make sure you are familiar with the forum rules. You can find them here: https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?threads/forum-rules.2334636/

Weapons becoming shinier with use -- Does that make sense?!

  • Yes, weapons should become dirty with use and experience

    Votes: 203 65.9%
  • No, weapon experience should bring shiny, brand-new weapons

    Votes: 105 34.1%

  • Total voters
    308

Reise

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 1, 2006
2,687
851
0
Maine, US
I think the "fresh" looking weapons are meant to represent not only a well maintained weapon, but also the fact that a very experienced soldier, or even a hero, would be given a better weapon, or a weapon in better shape, than that given to the lowest ranking soldiers. :)

Pretty much.

Soldiers who have been around the block would not only maintain their equipment better, but they would probably end up with the newer stuff than the greenhorns either by taking it themselves or being issued it first over the replacements.

It can be argued either way, really. I just think it makes MORE sense to have it so the weapons become better in appearance than worse as time goes by.
 

SchabeOink

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 9, 2011
123
23
0
It was common for veteran units to be issued new weapons and their older used weapons to be issued to raw recruits.Raw recruits didn't always treat their weapons the best cleaning and maintenance wise.And veteran soldiers knew the importance of good weapon maintenance and was thus more trusted with brand new weapons.

Definetly not true, both the Germans and the Russians more often then not equipped prestige units with new and modern weaponry which was basically wasted on the often green troops.

Weapon cleaning and maintenance is the first thing a soldier learns in boot when he's issued his weapon the first time. You learn its mechanics by heart before you shoot it for the first time. Add to that the fact that a functioning (not necessarily shiny) weapon is a matter of one's own life and death in the frontlines, I don't think that you could make a case of green troops having less weapon maintenance proficiency.

And Well Used doesn't mean that the weapon doesn't work anymore, it just looks worn and torn.

And this is another thing, its not like individual troopers, squads, platoons, companies, battalions and regiments had any choice in their equipment it was rather a divisional allocation.

The newby has a new gun because that's what he arrived with after a long trip on the train. The veteran has a used gun because using it made him a veteran.
 
Last edited:

MikkOwl

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 15, 2009
233
57
0
Sweden
So uh, why wouldn't the more senior and higher ranking soldiers be issued the newer weapons? Reward them for their long service and all that. The guy who has had no battlefield experience wouldn't be issued the weapon fresh from the manufacturing line, you know?

It's a bit of a non-issue.
I have been pondering this specific angle. First I will touch upon how things actually work - to my understanding. Then how it could fit into RO2.

Historically

As far as I know, the weapons/rifles were mass produced on a gigantic, rapid scale, and issued to the equally mass-recruited manpower (huge number of infantry units, in the Wehrmacht and Waffen S.S. for example). A large number of recruits probably received a brand new rifle that they used from basic training onwards.

They kept using this equipment until their division was refit and reorganized and the rifles were considered too worn out to warrant replacement. Optionally, in individual cases during deployment, if a soldier had his weapon break down or misplaced and supplies permitted, a replacement could be issued.

The replacement weapon would likely be either an armory refurbished weapon (logical and cheapest) or brand new.

Prioritized divisions (the experienced ones considered elite) would be more likely to get their hands on the highest quality weapons.

Non-combat units, or just less quality/priority guard types such as garrisons, probably were most likely to receive the lowest grade weapons.


In-game

The game portrays infantry that has been at the front lines for some time. Visible in how worn the soldiers look in their physical appearance and equipment. Combat veterans are the ones making the new rifles "well worn" to begin with. But this is not seen. Instead we see hardened veterans with greatly worn equipment, yet carrying fresh rifles all the time.

Yes, during refits the elite soldiers (although on a division scale, not individual basis) would be the ones to get new rifles. But refits do not happen after every skirmish. It was rare.

I propose that the 'condition' of the weapon be disconnected from some of the abilities of the level of skill of the player. Such as 'recoil control', 'sway', 'reload speed' not be tied to the condition of the weapon. In that way, no matter the state of the weapon, the player can rest assured that he is gaining benefits from the veterancy with that type of weapon.

Meanwhile, weapons degrade over time. Veterans will often be seen using worn weapons (that still perform well in most ways). Periodically, from spectacular battle performance, or X amount of hours put into the class or something else, the weapon is replaced. Here, the elite vets get issued a brand new rifle while the lower types settle for well worn or standard issue.

Having a personal weapon issued (give each a serial number for effect) that sticks with the player for a long time, will give the game a more realistic and personal flavor. The player can form a personal bond with his unique weapon. Having it replaced would be optional. Some would prefer to never depart with their personal weapon - sticking with the first one they were issued.

Related

If weapon reliability would be introduced (oh happiness) it would fit nicely with the theme above. Brand new weapons may be a bit stiffer to reload and cycle the action of until worn in. And worn out weapons would have a higher chance of jamming. Picking up weapons from the field (and judging them by looking at how worn they look) would be fun. "Is this a worn out POS that will jam on me?".
 

wooki

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 22, 2011
150
30
0
hhgallery.blogspot.com
Seconding poll missing the "don't care"-button. But my two cents:
Anybody remember "weapon was shot out of your hands". This has propably happened to a lot of you veterans. Hard to imagine a rifle would withstand that kind of treatment for too long. Also the veterans have had the pick of the battlefields and imagine the lust for something clean, new and pristine after spending months in the ruined hell of stalingrad. A gleaming rifle with a unscathed smooth grip must have felt like the epitome of beauty.

I'd pick the freshest and most goodlooking weapon upon choice. That's what my vets will do as well :)
 

MikkOwl

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 15, 2009
233
57
0
Sweden
And this is another thing, its not like individual troopers, squads, platoons, companies, battalions and regiments had any choice in their equipment it was rather a divisional allocation.

The newby has a new gun because that's what he arrived with after a long trip on the train. The veteran has a used gun because using it made him a veteran.
The divisional scale of things is a factor and is interesting. How about having the 'elite riflemen' types be more likely to be seen sporting cleaner and newer looking weapons? To reflect them being representative of a more prestigious unit (i.e. USSR Guard unit or elite Waffen SS).

In my long post previously, I support what you talk about - that graphically the weapon should look more worn on veterans because they are the ones who make weapons look worn to begin with. But at the same time, the performance of the weapon needs not be bad because of it.

EDIT:

Seconding poll missing the "don't care"-button. But my two cents:
Anybody remember "weapon was shot out of your hands". This has propably happened to a lot of you veterans. Hard to imagine a rifle would withstand that kind of treatment for too long. Also the veterans have had the pick of the battlefields and imagine the lust for something clean, new and pristine after spending months in the ruined hell of stalingrad. A gleaming rifle with a unscathed smooth grip must have felt like the epitome of beauty.

I'd pick the freshest and most goodlooking weapon upon choice. That's what my vets will do as well :)
I suspect they would prefer the personal and familiar unless it was malfunctioning. I.e. the weapon they had spent the most time with. If this weapon was not available for some reason, then I believe they would do what you said: go for the finest looking example around.
 
Last edited:

TheRealGunther

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 3, 2011
1,177
282
0
Blue Ridge GA
Definetly not true, both the Germans and the Russians more often then not equipped prestige units with new and modern weaponry which was basically wasted on the often green troops.

Weapon cleaning and maintenance is the first thing a soldier learns in boot when he's issued his weapon the first time. You learn its mechanics by heart before you shoot it for the first time. Add to that the fact that a functioning (not necessarily shiny) weapon is a matter of one's own life and death in the frontlines, I don't think that you could make a case of green troops having less weapon maintenance proficiency.

And keeping proper maintenance doesn't mean that the weapon doesn't work anymore, its just look worn and torn.

And this is another thing, its not like individual troopers, squads, platoons, companies, battalions and regiments had any choice in their equipment it was rather a divisional allocation.

The newby has a new gun because that's what he arrived with after a long trip on the train. The veteran has a used gun because using it made him a veteran.

During one battle this was the case but when it came to refitting units which was done often.Veteran and elite units often got first pick of the new weapons.To such an extent that even Wehrmacht units complained that SS units got the first picks on weapons.For example when the STG-44 was being issued few regular units seen this weapon for it was giving to the more "so called" elite units.

The bolt actions was replaced less due to the fact they was practically indestructible and many of the rifles that survived are still in good working order today.The automatic weapons was another story as their many moving parts and barrel would wear out and would often be replaced during refittings.

The same can be said for tanks/vehicles as well as guns when it came to refitting veteran units did get priority over raw recruits.
 
Last edited:

greenlemonade

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 20, 2010
793
189
0
The weapons are also in good shape because they are better taken care of. As someone becomes a hero, they care less about the cleanliness of their uniform and more about the effectiveness of their weapon. :)
 

SchabeOink

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 9, 2011
123
23
0
Brilliant post MikkOwl, I fully agree and like to add my two cents here:

Prioritized divisions (the experienced ones considered elite) would be more likely to get their hands on the highest quality weapons.

Now think of prestige formations such as Luftwaffenfelddivisionen for example where good and modern grade material was wasted on green troops who couldn't utilize it to its fullest effect and lost it to the enemy more often then regular but experienced troops.

Add to that a difficult supply situation on both sides throughout the war which only got worse and up to catastrophic at the Battle of Stalingrad itself for the Germans and Sovjet Bureacracy on the Russian side - and voil
 

FBOTheLiuetenant

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 20, 2006
640
104
0
www.righttorule.com
I don't think you undestand what the weapon condition is trying to accomplish. This is to represent that as a Hero you get preferential treatment when it comes to weaponry, where you are given match grade weapons straight from the factory.
 

SchabeOink

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 9, 2011
123
23
0
How about having the 'elite riflemen' types be more likely to be seen sporting cleaner and newer looking weapons? To reflect them being representative of a more prestigious unit (i.e. USSR Guard unit or elite Waffen SS).
I personally wouldn't like it as there is no reason why squads should be infused with single members of formations other than their own - and as it is right now every squad during every match on every map would have this little inconsistency...

that graphically the weapon should look more worn on veterans because they are the ones who make weapons look worn to begin with. But at the same time, the performance of the weapon needs not be bad because of it.
I think we both fully agree here - for me this is wholly a cosmetic issue.
While such minute and detailed game mechanic as you describe later would be interesting and maybe even fun, I think at this stage it's overkill ;)

But still you need to get the cosmetical things right as well:
Imagine RO2 being an attractive woman (of your personal taste ;)) with undisputable flaws, but very attractive non-the-less. Now what she does every morning before she sets off to work is not getting her cosmetics, her make-up, right...she puts the lipstick on her eyes and eyeshadow on her lips. :eek:
 
Last edited:

jolorulz

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 18, 2011
147
80
0
Manila
Aesthetically speaking, veterans should get dirtier and worn out weapons. It would make sense given that he'd have used it for a long period of time. However, if he's being issued newer models like an M16 (kidding!) it would make sense that it's shiny. It really is a non-issue for me.
 

MtnMan01

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 17, 2006
266
21
0
Bottom line is,,
A Battle harden Vet. Realizes that his weapon is his "life".
Polish/clean/test/grease/oil is a soldiers job when he's not on the front line fighting.

Well maintained Field equipment/Weapon's
are signs of well trained Soldier's


:cool:
 

Sifer2

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 16, 2011
207
28
0
Yeah it strikes me as really odd. Your uniform gets dirtier but your gun gets shinier.

If the logic is supposed to be that the Veteran is getting first dibs on nice guns as a reward for his service. Then how come they are not giving him a fresh uniform?

I think if the idea is to make it look like your a battle hardened Veteran then the gun should match the outfit to complete the look. Easiest solution of course is to let people use whatever appearance choices they have unlocked. So if I want to look fresh I can or if I want to look vet I can.
 

Prof

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 7, 2010
124
12
0
New recruits who are likely to die get old weapons, which can't be considered a big loss.

A soldier who has proven his worth on the battlefield gets a new weapon that is fresh from the factory, still in perfect working condition and with good sights.

This is called a "reward"

And it totally makes sense.

And we do not need a thread on it every few weeks.

This feature is realistic the way it is and nothing about it should be changed.
 

luciferintears

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 3, 2011
1,122
510
0
So uh, why wouldn't the more senior and higher ranking soldiers be issued the newer weapons? Reward them for their long service and all that. The guy who has had no battlefield experience wouldn't be issued the weapon fresh from the manufacturing line, you know?

It's a bit of a non-issue.

Probably because supply lines were cut and equipment was only trickling in; German logistics was in quite a crisis.

Essentially what you were given (a shiny new weapon out from the factory) was what you had throughout the the majority of the battle.

It would be nice to see some wear and tear on it.

I agree though, this is a non-issue but it would be an interesting thing to see.