Weapon levels, unlocks BAD IDEA

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harvest4

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 31, 2011
16
2
0
I just don't understand the concept of leveling up in fps mulitplayer games... You supposedly gain experience as you play the game which allows you to be more accurate, reload faster, move faster etc...

I agree that as in real life when you practice anything over time you gain more experience and are more effective at certain tasks...

The thing is though that this is already modeled in every game ever created...because it is called real life... I already gain experience by learning the map, learning tips and tricks in game, being able to physcially move my mouse to shoot more accruately etc...

Also the idea of working toward something when playing an fps game does not compute with me. Someone said previously that there is no point to playing a game if there is nothing to unlock... I play to relax and become immersed in the game. It is like playing cowboys and indians or soldier when I was a little kid... Was I working toward leveling up or something? No I was just playing and having fun. Escapism.
 
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Black Valor

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 1, 2011
46
18
0
I just don't understand the concept of leveling up in fps mulitplayer games... You supposedly gain experience as you play the game which allows you to be more accurate, reload faster, move faster etc...

I agree that as in real life when you practice anything over time you gain more experience and are more effective at certain tasks...

The thing is though that this is already modeled in every game ever created...because it is called real life... I already gain experience by learning the map, learning tips and tricks in game, being able to physcially move my mouse to shoot more accruately etc...

Also the idea of working toward something when playing an fps game does not compute with me. Someone said previously that there is no point to playing a game if there is nothing to unlock... I play to relax and become immersed in the game. It is like playing cowboys and indians or soldier when I was a little kid... Was I working toward leveling up or something? No I was just playing and having fun. Escapism.

So the entire system should be removed since you don't get it?
 
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SunKing

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 7, 2006
243
76
0
Sacramento
A lot of people actually find that unlocks in first person shooters are very enjoyable- it's one of the reason the Call of Duty games are so popular. It adds something to work for, which can increase the length someone might want to play the game. I don't see any problems with unlocks personally, especially since they can be turned off on a server to server basis.

Unfortunately in this era of gaming, unlocks, exp chasing are the way the new generation of gamers play. Once they get their carrots they move on to chase others. No more gaming for the love of the game, it's all about unlocks and brags.
 

drswank

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 10, 2011
148
87
0
At this point, the unlock system is going to be one of the main things that keeps me interested in this game (personally)... until BF3 comes out.
 

Hans Haus

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 2, 2011
3
0
0
Aye, but respawning is a critical game mechanic. Doing something for no good reason that's unrealistic is utterly pointless, which is really my point at the end of the day.



No kidding, so at the point where it utterly destroys the videogame, your ability to play it, your life, your computer, your face, your family, and half a city block for the sake of realism is probably gone too far. That's a good reason to mitigate realism.

The above ^ are good reasons to mitigate realism. What's your reason for mitigating realism in this case?

Oh, look at that, here they are. >



Working in a videogame is just flat out wrong. Metagames are stupid. They are the most broken, pointless, meaningless game mechanics in the history of game design and they should die a thousand deaths in a million fires.

At the precise point at which the game transforms from fun to "work" is the point at which, for your own health and the sake of people around you, you should stop doing it. The fact that you even used the word "work," as though playing a videogame for digital breadcrumb rewards were real, constructive work, terrifies me. If you go do something in the real world and it produces a tangible reward, that is a thousand times more substantive and nourishing than any reward you will get in a videogame, I can assure you. Play videogames for their own sake and for nothing else, please, I beg of you.

I mean this is literally getting to the point where it's a health concern.



Sure, it's balanced, albeit poorly.

So the question now is whether the hit to game balanced caused by introducing this system is worth the advantage gained from getting a "simulation" type environment where progression is modeled.

Well first of all, we're getting into the territory of fabulously abstract ideas. We're literally transcending the concept of a game. We're not "simulating" the physical characteristics of weapons or corralling players into an artificial battle for dominance. Instead, what we're doing is roleplaying soldier. Yes, that's what you're suggesting, is something less along the lines of a first person shooter or a war sim and more along the lines of a roleplaying game. You want to feel like you're playing a role.

You seem to be arguing that the introduction of these roleplaying elements will have such a subtle effect on gameplay that they will be worth it to introduce some intangible "feeling" of being in war or being a soldier.

So that's not arguing from a realism perspective or a game balance perspective, or even a game design perspective in the traditional sense.

It's appealing to something that I know well, which is to roleplay a character in the hypothetical, which does tease my brain a little bit and stimulate my curiosity.

I will say I feel like the better option would be to drop the progression system and just make characters have randomized stat options and relegate this system to a side game mode for interested roleplayers, sort of in the same way that World of Warcraft has separate servers for roleplay and normal play. Or even for those that feel the progression system is worth it for the roleplay significance could have a game mode in which this progression system is included.

Approaching this from a pure game design or sim perspective, I still don't see the purpose of the system, but I see now I'm being a little hard lined when I do that.



In a real war the 10 year vet can get permanently disabled by a fragment from an artillery shell. He doesn't respawn with the same level of experience.



You can facilitate teamplay without a progression system. Like for instance, delegating certain specialized roles, or a class system like in Ost Front. The machine gunner, for instance, can't solo the team, and neither can a submachine gunner snipe at range.

You literally sound like the most unsufferable human being on this planet. I cannot wait to see you in game, where I can proceed to go all einsatzgruppen on you. My name is Hans Haus and I will end you; then you can continue to complain about how unrealistic the experience was for you.
 

Hans Haus

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 2, 2011
3
0
0
How is it realistic for veteran RO players to play veteran soldiers?

I've played thousands of battles in Red Orchestra and I was in a grand total of 0 battles in World War 2.

You literally sound like the most unsufferable human being on this planet. I cannot wait to see you in game where I can proceed to go all einsatzgruppen on you. My name is Hans F*cking Haus and I will end you; then you can continue to complain about how unrealistic the experience was for you.
 

Black Valor

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 1, 2011
46
18
0
Unfortunately in this era of gaming, unlocks, exp chasing are the way the new generation of gamers play. Once they get their carrots they move on to chase others. No more gaming for the love of the game, it's all about unlocks and brags.

Oh please, the "these darned kids and their newfangled vidya game unlocks" is simply ridiculous.

I've been gaming since the Atari computer and I find unlocks and character progression both interesting and rewarding, age and maturity has nothing to do with it. A progression system does nothing but add to the overall gameplay experience.
 
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SingeDebile

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 23, 2006
325
34
0
unlocks are fine,

there are some quibbles as to the accuracy of not having drum mags for the Pssh but that aside... I like the idea of differentiating players skill and loadout

...FPS games with RPG elements are great... if anything I would contend the difference between the two is in your head, every FPS is an RPG (I remember trying to convince people of this with regards to the first Deus Ex) and adding more elements to it only adds a sense of depth and weight to your playing it
 

Lastfaction

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 1, 2011
11
3
0
I personally like the unlock system they have though they could have made it a bit more KF like where you get the same gear no matter what just how good the gear is changes.

At 100m is the fact that you do more melee damage with the Mauser really going to matter against the noob? No, but what will is how good you can shoot your weapon, which is true of any FPS on the market.
 

Catalytic

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 2, 2011
7
1
0
While I do agree that it can cause some imbalance, I think that it depends on how it's implemented. For example, I would *love* to see it tied into the honor system if that's how it works. You want to teamkill a lot? Don't want to help out your team? Fine, but you're not getting any upgrades, jerk.