Weapon Jamming (Merged Yet Again)

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Fu. Svedberg

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
1,413
16
0
Sweden
No it isnt mean that every 1 of 100 bullet will jam: it mean that 1% of chance to be jammed for EVERY bullet.

Which means essentially that 1 in every 100 bullets jams:rolleyes:

It means 1 of 10.000 bullets would jam, though it may be even first or 10th or 555th and every other bullet)

err...?:confused:

1% means that statistically 1 in 100 jam. But since it statistics it doesn't mean that 1 in hundered WILL jam. If you fire 10000 bullets you will have 100 bullets that jam.
But just because your last bullet didn't jam you won't have a bigger chance of jamming because you only have 99 bullets left to the next jam you will still have 1% chance for it to jam (probabillity has no memory).
If you make a bell curve of how many bullets you can fire for each jam you will get that the biggest probabillity will be 1 jam every 100 bullets. But statistically there still is a chance that you fire 9900 bullets with no jam at all but then suddenly you will have 100 jams in a row or vice versa.

But in the end 1% probabillity to jam basically means 1 jam per 100 bullets (assuming the randomisation algorithm is perfect (which it never is unless it takes **** loads of CPU time)).
In most cases tough you will probably have most of your jams in a span that is 50-150 bullets between each jam.

The 1% of all bullets fired. Only firing 400 bullets for a system like this might diverge a lot from the 1% but as you increase the number fired you will probably end up at 1% (i.e. when firing such a small number as 400 bullets you might get a jam frequency of 20% or 0,001% but if you fire 4000000 bullets you will probably get a value very close to the 1% with a divergency of only 1ppm or less).
Also remember that YOU might get 10 jams in a row which to you might seem to brake statistics but think of that this means that maybe the rest of the players on the server can fire 1000 bullets in a row without any jams at all nothing says that the distrobution of jams in a short span will be evenly distrobuted among the players (bell curve again) but in the long run it will even out (unless you are really unlucky).
 

Cuddles

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 2, 2006
1,507
2
0
Area 51
No jaming in RO its very anoying imo :mad: and if i remember correctly there was a server in RO:Combined Arms (mod) that had jaming mutator so why not make 1 for RO:Ost
 

Lemur

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 28, 2006
39
0
0
All I know, is that unjamming this:

when wearing these:

can be a bit troublesome.


I would not mind seeing jams in RO though. :cool:
 

Lemur

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 28, 2006
39
0
0
Those were not part of the winter gear. :rolleyes:
Might be a bit hard to reach the trigger with those and all.;)
 

Rapp

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 2, 2006
134
0
0
If jam is implemented I want my cigarette box in my breast pocket to deflect bullets, my bootlaces to become undone, female russian soldiers and a diving headbutt melee attack.
 

Dr. Peter Venkman

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 21, 2006
871
68
0
California
I maye have come up with a solution that you guys will think is a good compromise.

Anyone who has played Gears of War knows what 'Active Reload' is and what it does. I am suggesting a similar thing to be put into Red Orchestra.

In Gears of War, there is a thing called Active Reload which allows someone to reload their weapon much faster than if they were not to attempt it and also gives them a damage boost (but I am not suggesting the damage part for Red Orchestra). If the player messes up during this active reload, his weapon becomes jammed and the reload takes longer.

The way it works is this:

When the player reloads, a line and slash appears on the top right of their screen. If the player wants to reload faster, they must press their reload button again near the slash to do so. If they mess up, their weapon jams up and takes longer to reload.

-------------|--------------

Here is a video:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=QdHvAPqTco4

Maybe if the reload is messed up the weapon will jam immediately then, or sometime during the magazine.
Although it's not true weapon jamming, it's a start.
 

Kaputt PzKpfw V

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 23, 2006
9
0
0
I maye have come up with a solution that you guys will think is a good compromise.

Anyone who has played Gears of War knows what 'Active Reload' is and what it does. I am suggesting a similar thing to be put into Red Orchestra.

In Gears of War, there is a thing called Active Reload which allows someone to reload their weapon much faster than if they were not to attempt it and also gives them a damage boost (but I am not suggesting the damage part for Red Orchestra). If the player messes up during this active reload, his weapon becomes jammed and the reload takes longer.

The way it works is this:

When the player reloads, a line and slash appears on the top right of their screen. If the player wants to reload faster, they must press their reload button again near the slash to do so. If they mess up, their weapon jams up and takes longer to reload.

The reload time in RO is pretty reasonable so what's the benefit of using an "active reload" if it's just going to jam your weapon?

I don't feel they should add jamming to the game. Let the modders take care of that.
 

Teq

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 19, 2006
566
0
0
I maye have come up with a solution that you guys will think is a good compromise.

Anyone who has played Gears of War knows what 'Active Reload' is and what it does. I am suggesting a similar thing to be put into Red Orchestra.

In Gears of War, there is a thing called Active Reload which allows someone to reload their weapon much faster than if they were not to attempt it and also gives them a damage boost (but I am not suggesting the damage part for Red Orchestra). If the player messes up during this active reload, his weapon becomes jammed and the reload takes longer.

The way it works is this:

When the player reloads, a line and slash appears on the top right of their screen. If the player wants to reload faster, they must press their reload button again near the slash to do so. If they mess up, their weapon jams up and takes longer to reload.

-------------|--------------

Here is a video:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=QdHvAPqTco4

Maybe if the reload is messed up the weapon will jam immediately then, or sometime during the magazine.
Although it's not true weapon jamming, it's a start.

Looks nice :)

During the millitary service, I had a few incidents during a simulated mission.

We wer doing a hostage rescue, and I was going in to secure him inside a buildning.
I emtied a half clip, killing 2 bad guys, and did a tactical reload behind cover inside, but because I was really stressed, I fumbled and missed magazine **** twice...
it wasnt much time wasted, but just enough for the enemy to round the corner and shoot me...

So I love the idea you are posting, but instead of jams, weapon fumble would be cool to add...
Like having to press reload twice with specific timing :)
 

Dr. Peter Venkman

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 21, 2006
871
68
0
California
The reload time in RO is pretty reasonable so what's the benefit of using an "active reload" if it's just going to jam your weapon?

Faster reload speed in the middle of a firefight that without reloading fast enough will make you wind up dead.

Imagine the bolt-actions. Performing an active reload would have you load all of the five rounds in on the stripper clip in a single movement, no fumbling around with one round to push the others in.
 

Ornagy Tom

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 23, 2005
58
0
0
Adelaide, Australia
Faster reload speed in the middle of a firefight that without reloading fast enough will make you wind up dead.

Imagine the bolt-actions. Performing an active reload would have you load all of the five rounds in on the stripper clip in a single movement, no fumbling around with one round to push the others in.

I'd imagine Bolties would be a little different from magazine weapons. Imagine, you fumble on a bolt, instead of jamming the gun, the bullets jump the charger and fly everywhere except into the gun! Now you have pull out another charger......
 

[CoFR]BooBoo

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 12, 2006
706
0
0
Tarzana, CA, USA
www.cofr.net
I posted on this a long time ago, several pages back. My opinion is that while yes, jams happened, the scope of the game simply makes it impractical to implement with any sort of realism. That being said, however, there are certain specific types of malfunctions that should be considered IF jamming is implemented.

1 - Mosin-Nagant rifles were prone to one specific type of stoppage, that of misaligned rounds in the magazine. Due to the rimmed case of the 7.62x54R it was possible for the rim of one round to slip behind the one below. Often this happened when the rounds were loaded into the stripper clips, but it could also happen when a round "jumped" when the rounds were stripped into the magazine. When this happened the round would be blocked from moving forward into the chamber by the rim of the round below. The rifleman had to reach into the reciever and try to lift the jammed case out, which wasn't always as easy as it could be.

2 - As stated in my earlier post, extreme cold weather can cause a weapon to sieze up when the oil and grease used to maintain them congeal in the cold. It doesn't take much, even a light film of lubricant is enough to cause a stoppage. The only fix for this type of stoppage is to strip the weapon down and clean it of all traces of oil and grease (oddly enough, exactly the same way you prevent stoppages in extreme desert conditions).

3 - Another common cause of stoppages is improperly loaded or damaged ammunition. Dead primers, contaminated powder, ammo damaged by improper storage and handling, etc. and so forth. The stoppages ranged from simple misfires (click, but no bang) to hangfires (clickpauseBANG) to ruptured cases. You could also end up with a round that didn't provide enough gas pressure to drive the bullet out of the barrel (primer discharged only, or badly deteriorated powder - had it happen myself). While simple misfires can be cleared by just cycling the action to clear the defective round, ruptured cases and stuck bullets require special tools that line soldiers might not have access to. Clearing a ruptured case out of the chamber is no 10-second task, especially when the chamber is fouled from heavy shooting. Driving a stuck bullet out of the barrel is even worse. From a game standpoint these last two should really be considered as your weapon being made useless and require you to scrounge up another. (I won't go into tolerance differences between German weapons and Russian, except to say that Russian guns tend to be far more forgiving of the quality of ammo avialiable for them.)

There are tons of other things that can cause stoppages on the battlefiels, from dirty weapons to slamfires (for semi- and full-autos). Attempting to cover all possible malfunctions is impossible, and trying to select the few that would "improve" gameplay is sure to cause more than a few arguments. Honeslty I'd rather see the devs using their time to add more vehicles, more weapons and more maps rather than being distracted by this.
 

Kurtz

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 14, 2006
401
0
0
I think the most extreme weapon malfunctions should definetely be left out, although it would possibly be entertaining to have a squib round. First shot the sound and recoil are different (as the bullet didn't make it out of the barrel). Second shot has x probability of blowing up the gun and y possibility of wounding your hand/face, with z probability of killing you right there. ;) Most malfunctions that would completely render the weapon useless for the course of the round were the least common anyway.

Weapon maintenance is a huge factor (probably the single biggest factor) in weapons reliability, as are the conditions you're fighting in. Prolonged fighting in a hostile environment could render your weapon near useless. If you make all weapons of a single type have a fixed chance of jamming no matter what that's not really realistic either. So what do we do then in a situation like early war Russian front where soldiers might not have known their lubricant would freeze? Have a huge chance your bolt will stick shut from the very beginning of the round?

I'm not saying jamming is a completely bad idea, but if you actually wanted to implement it in a realistic fashion it could end up being a complete PITA...

Edit: should have just read BooBoo's post. He got it right, in the post right before mine no less.