Making the bolt rifels more "accurate" opposed to the semis is exactly that, balancing. Bolt guy has ONE chance..semi has 5-6 till the bolter reloaded.
Weapon balance
- Thread starter MattyDienhoff
- Start date
Making the bolt rifels more "accurate" opposed to the semis is exactly that, balancing. Bolt guy has ONE chance..semi has 5-6 till the bolter reloaded.
If you do things realisticly then you won't have to balance things, when you introduce unrealistic things into a game that is when you to do balancing.
Just keep it as it is in RO:O. Each weapon has place to fight. And please don't blame "it's ridiculous to play rifle in close combat" etc. Skilled player can easly kill SMG player on krasnaya apartment. SMG player can easly kill enemy bolt player on baksan walley when he flanked enemy positions or use cover to move closer.
Some players just don't know how to play or don't want to play better and starting blaming gam balance.
The only ridiculous thing here are console players with their pads which will play RO:HoS.
Some players just don't know how to play or don't want to play better and starting blaming gam balance.
The only ridiculous thing here are console players with their pads which will play RO:HoS.
Bolt-action rifles ARE more accurate than semi-autos. Always.
But yeah, the G43 scoped was a lot less accurate than it should be and I agree that on average engagement ranges you won't notice much of a difference.
As for weapon balancing, just keep them the same as RO. I wouldn't mind less recoil on the sub machine guns. RO doesn't need artificial balancing, if a weapon was good or bad in real life it should be good or bad in-game.
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The bolt guns are more accurate, but you won't notice the difference until past 300-400 meters.
The PPSH-41 clearly has too much recoil. Look at some youtube videos, and you can see that it clearly has less recoil on full auto.
The PPSH-41 clearly has too much recoil. Look at some youtube videos, and you can see that it clearly has less recoil on full auto.
that's a good point. i would rather see no artificial balancing for the weapons. they should more or less be based on how they functioned in reality.
i used to think that balancing was necessary so that players fighting each other with different weapons will have more of an equal chance. but a system like that expects a certain behavior from its players, and takes away from the fluidity of combat. when certain weapons are pitted against eachother, there's almost a procedure to be followed. things like realistically analyzing the environment and assessing options and choices take a backseat to who's better at memorizing the routine.
i think it's hard for players to accept that sometimes certain weapons are just no good, and will never be good in certain situations(barring lucky shots and other flukes), that's why players must decide how to use it and rely on more than just the basic "gamey" techniques. that's the point of a game like this. giving more control to the player in a way that makes sense. their wits, rather than the weapon stats should matter more.
for example, if a map is mostly close quarters combat, the player that is unlucky enough to have a kar would need to adapt to the environment. they will have to learn to avoid tight areas and find places that allows for long range combat. or force the opponent into the open. this breaks the formulaic shooter mold, and allows for much more freedom.
Also, to realistically balance the PPSH-41, we can give them the 35 round magazines.
The drums were phased out in favor of the magazines, for many reasons.
In real life, when the magazines became really available, the Russians generally carried one drum and a few mags.
The magazines became available in 1942, so they should be in Stalingrad.
So in close quarters maps, give the PPSH-41 one drum and a few mags, and in open ended maps give the PPSH-41 all drums.
This way it will be balanced out better, but the insane recoil can be cut down to more realistic levels.
The drums were phased out in favor of the magazines, for many reasons.
In real life, when the magazines became really available, the Russians generally carried one drum and a few mags.
The magazines became available in 1942, so they should be in Stalingrad.
So in close quarters maps, give the PPSH-41 one drum and a few mags, and in open ended maps give the PPSH-41 all drums.
This way it will be balanced out better, but the insane recoil can be cut down to more realistic levels.
You know what would be nice to see implemented? Jams. That would be a major disincentive from using the drum mag for the PPSH-41 if you had a choice. The drum mags would often have feed problems, and therefore you would get a jam. This didn't happen as often with the stick mags. So, stick mags = less ammo, less jams. Drum mags = more ammo, more jams.
If you have jams with the PPSH then every gun should be able to jam then. The thing I don't like about jamming in a game is that it never happens for a reason other then "You fired X amount of rounds and it's time for a jam." And it's a game so you can't implant reasons why they would jam so I would rather have no jamming.
Yes but at typical distances you won't notice the difference in RO the accuracy was quite dramatic with semi autos vs bolt actions.
Another thing I hope they fix in HOS was that in Ostfront I thought the guns in first person mode were too high up for being at the hip supposedly, they looked like they were shouldered.
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I wouldn't say that the jam would have to coincide directly with x bullets fired. Instead it could be calculated by the weapons tendency to jam with how many rounds were fired in a short time frame (IE the more they full auto the poor thing, the more likely it is to jam). At any rate, if developed I'd rather see jams be a very rare occurrence even then. Otherwise, I'm happy with the idea of morale/stamina/suppression affecting reload times.
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SMGs weren't given a lot of recoil for balance reasons in RO:Ost, they were just set up like that because we thought real weapons acted like that. Now that we have had a lot of trigger time on some fully automatic weapons (SMGs, Assault Rifles, LMGs, etc) we know better how they really handle. That is why the weapons handle like they do in ROHOS, because we've made them more realistic based on our new real world experience. And we won't make them behave unrealistically for balance. Balance will be handled in other ways such as respawn times, spawn locations, etc.
This is why I don't like jams in games. At least not multiplayer games.
Sounds good. What about stick mags for the PPSH-41?
I was under the impression that the PPSh was much more often used with 35-round stick mags rather than drums since they're cheaper and more reliable. Though since it has such a high rate of fire, it may be hard to not use the whole mag on one target.
I think it would be really cool to have drums and sticks at the same time, so a part of your ammo is in the drum, and the rest is in the sticks!
I know, I meant for all guns. As for the jamming, if it were to be implemented, the "X amount of rounds and it jams" would be fine. It's not like we're taking care of the same weapon over a very long period in game, so it wouldn't make much sense to base it on being dirty/cold/wet etc
This is what I said, and from what I have read, this what the Russians did later in the war.
But, the loadout can vary between maps, as I suggested.
This is one way to realistically balance the game.
Maybe even randomize it every respawn. Would be really nice to have some variation like this in the game.
Weeheee..
First time me on this forum are suprised positive way. And yes im a negative and cynical man. So that quite much.And thats what i have been trieing to say inside MN. That you dont need to balance weapons if you can balance maps. You dont need to balance maps if you can balance gameplay.
So basicly side can got even double time better smg's if otherside got double time more smgs. There can be so many smgs on sides as you want if the map have also places where the rifles are far better.
And that spawn thing was really good way. Havent thought it before.
But if you need to wait more while dead to get a better gun. Thats quite
fair i think.
How ever i allways felt in RO: Ost that Stg was unpowered compared to
stg's on close range. So i eneded up to conclusion that MP40 makes more
damage. Like the rifle did more dame than Smg's.
Will something happen to that, as i dont think there is much different how huge the bullet is. It does got lot to do how far bullet can fly straight, but i
believe that the damage is allmost same, if the target is so close that i can
hit it by smg.
Semi automatics from WWII should not be compared to modern semi-automatics.
The G43 in all probability was not the most accurate rifle on the field by any measure. As inaccurate as its portrayal in Ost Front? I would have no idea.
Anyway, consider that G43 was literally the second semi-automatic rifle introduced into the German military aside from Walther's previous effort, the piece of crap G41.
I imagine their performance was not nearly up to snuff.