RO2 Ways to slow down gameplay and prolong firefights?

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PsychoPigeon

Grizzled Veteran
Mar 11, 2006
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In Unreal
Red Orchestra 2 in comparison to Ost Front and Darkest Hour is more accessible but in what way and by how much? What are the determining factors that make gameplay more fast paced than in the other two games and how can they be measured?

I can't pin it down to just one function. I know that when I play Darkest Hour I value my kills more whereas in RO2 I don't have to use as much effort to kill another player, I tend to rack up kills. In Darkest Hour I find myself suppressing players more with my weapon rather than near instantly killing them, meaning I miss more shots and the player I'm shooting at has more chances to get away from my line of sight. This prolongs the firefight but is it too frustrating for the average gamer who buys the game and doesn't hit anyone? Which I'm guessing was a primary reason behind many RO2 decisions.

The categories that I believe all contribute are:

  • Weapon handling
  • Weapon Recoil
  • Shift Zoom
  • Stat bonuses
  • Movement
Let me try and elaborate on those.

Weapon Handling

This would cover making the weapon appear to weigh more by increasing the time it takes to pull out the weapon and the time it takes to go into iron sight, sway, reloading times, all these aspects add up and give players a chance to escape your line of sight.

Weapon Recoil

When comparing Rising Storm weapon recoil to Darkest Hour, try the M1 Garand you'll notice subtle differences nothing drastically different when using the M1 in DH but enough to let enemy players get a chance to break out of your line of sight if you were rapid firing. That extra second or two when you have to readjust your weapon back onto the target could be the difference between life and death.

Shift Zoom

Ironically, this feature I see endorsed often by Ost Front players but it is one of the reasons why level designers have to provide so much more cover than in Darkest Hour or Ost Front in order to give players a fighting chance to reach the objective. If you go back to those games you'll notice open fields with literally nothing in them and the only thing to use as cover is a subtle curve in the terrain or some grass, sure you can still die, but you can sprint through and survive - in RO2 it's like you hit a wall of bullets and it takes copious amounts of smoke and artillery to get across open ground, but not after dying many times first. Classic mode disabled this feature and the effects in gameplay were noticeable. By allowing the player to zoom in that much it means the defender can be a lot further back with a nice clear view of you which means open ground becomes problematic to say the least, you end up having to give the attacker stepping stones to the objective or just make the areas the attackers have to cross a lot smaller.

Stat Bonuses

While they're only small bonuses and not even noticeable when playing, they do add to the pace of the game.

Movement

Movement is more responsive in RO2 and I do appreciate that, between Realism and Classic modes, and the Overhaul Mod, Classic has a good balance and I remember clearly when that game mode was released slower gameplay occurring. The main feedback at the time was to increase stamina for sprinting just a tiny bit more and I could agree with that.


So if you had the chance to design RO2's gameplay at the beginning with only one game mode but you knew it had to be more accessible than previous games to attract a larger audience what would that look like? Is there some middle ground that can be reached between Ost Front, Darkest Hour, and RO2 and if so can you describe it?
 
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LugNut

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 12, 2011
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Uh... lessee.... IOM?

Do I win? :p

I'll agree with your overall assesment on all counts, but the biggest single factor is zoom. With it on and off is the difference between you sprinting between cover as bullets whiz by and you taking two steps & "BoomHeadshot!".

Secondly, slower movement speeds slow the pace. We saw that with Classic and IOM.
 

Lemonater47

Grizzled Veteran
Sep 25, 2014
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Recoil in IOM isn't authentic lol. Go out and use an actual gun. IOM is over the top.
 

Bane5

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 27, 2012
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Here is the thing:

In a lot of firefights, soldiers often spray bullets in the general area of their enemy to suppress. In RO2, EVERY shot is to kill.

Suppression effects need to be better. Not a greyscreen as is currently, but a blur effect instead. And not just a slight blur effect, a really big blurring effect that ensures you can only shoot in the general direction of the enemy.
 

Lemonater47

Grizzled Veteran
Sep 25, 2014
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Yeah MG recoil is increased and rightly so.

But other weapons it's pretty out there lol. The recoil on the bolt actions reminds me of my granddads break barrel shotgun rather than a .303.
 

titsmcgee852

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 27, 2013
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I think the fact that suppression was more effective in DH than RO2 (not sure it was as effective in RO:O) plays a pretty big role upon how long the firefights were drawn out. Most people didn't like the suppression in DH, but I liked it because it was far more effective than anything you see in RO2 (except for the mg42). You knew that when you were shooting a semi-auto or MG at a window, whoever was behind wouldn't be poking their head out any time soon.
 
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emcdunna

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 19, 2015
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I think another thing that makes RO2's combat fast is the extremely deadly hiding spots that experienced players have found and exploit. All the time I die from MG fire from over 100 m away and I have no idea where the person is.

So even if I could suppress them effectively, I wouldn't know where they are to shoot at.

For suppression, i'd like to see a blur to the screen (not black and white) and also a flinch, like even if you don't get hit with bullets, your character cringes and flinches and shakes around.

So increase recoil in general, take off the shift-zoom feature, and modify the suppression mechanic...

If you do all of that then I think you'd massively balance the game and get a lot more teamwork. It'd be a viable strategy to suppress the enemy so that your allies can move forward (right now it seems like a waste of time to try to suppress the enemy).
 

Lemonater47

Grizzled Veteran
Sep 25, 2014
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I think another thing that makes RO2's combat fast is the extremely deadly hiding spots that experienced players have found and exploit. All the time I die from MG fire from over 100 m away and I have no idea where the person is.

So even if I could suppress them effectively, I wouldn't know where they are to shoot at.

For suppression, i'd like to see a blur to the screen (not black and white) and also a flinch, like even if you don't get hit with bullets, your character cringes and flinches and shakes around.

So increase recoil in general, take off the shift-zoom feature, and modify the suppression mechanic...

If you do all of that then I think you'd massively balance the game and get a lot more teamwork. It'd be a viable strategy to suppress the enemy so that your allies can move forward (right now it seems like a waste of time to try to suppress the enemy).
I hated the blurry suppression in games like battlefield. Hurts my eyes. Even less realistic than desaturation.

MGs do supress quite a bit. Hell if you stand next to a friendly MG your character jumps when the MG fires.

5+ man banzai a suppression. Holy ****. After 2 seconds your character is looking at the sky.
 

emcdunna

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 19, 2015
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Still the fact is that we (as players) are way to fricken accurate with our guns, whether they are automatic or not.

You pop ur head out of cover and an enemy sees.... you die, in under 2 seconds. doesn't matter what gun he has.
 

LugNut

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 12, 2011
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I prefer ARMA's suppression, your heartrate and sway go through the roof, making returning accurate fire impossible. You can however still fire in the enemy's general direction, hopefully suppressing them.
 

emcdunna

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 19, 2015
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Also what about having a muzzle flash causing a slight heat haze effect... likke when you fire a MG there's a bigger muzzle flash but from far away there's also a hazy effect right around the place they shot from.
 

Lemonater47

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Sep 25, 2014
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I prefer ARMA's suppression, your heartrate and sway go through the roof, making returning accurate fire impossible. You can however still fire in the enemy's general direction, hopefully suppressing them.

That's what happens in this game. This game just has more features.

Keep in mind suppression is simulating a mental reaction. Which is something you can overcome.
 

LugNut

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 12, 2011
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What game? RO2? When I come under mg fire in RO2, I feel like I'm having a seizure, not that I am frightened.
 

Cwivey

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Sep 14, 2011
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In the hills! (of England)
What game? RO2? When I come under mg fire in RO2, I feel like I'm having a seizure, not that I am frightened.

Heart rate increases as well as sway and you cant control breathing when suppressed in RO2. Of course, RO2 has weapon resting which does help combat the effects slightly compared to ARMA.

Unless you're talking 'bout the close-by bullet whips.
 

LugNut

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 12, 2011
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Unless you're talking 'bout the close-by bullet whips.

No, those are fine.

I guess if the visual stuff wasn't so predominant in suppression, I might notice the heart rate and sway. I feel like my eyes are rolling back in my head and I'm about to pass out, not that I'm panicking. I've only been shot at a couple of times, but I've been plenty scared other times and when your adrenaline is up, you can see just fine, if anything, better than normal. I can understand that blurring or desaturation in games is effective at reducing your ability to return fire, but it doesn't simulate fear for me.
 

Lemonater47

Grizzled Veteran
Sep 25, 2014
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Strange how they mad t go black and White lol. If they thought of blurry they obviously didn't like it. I don't like blurry suppression. Given the choice I would choose desaturation.

Supresses causing larger sway and pushes your weapon off. Heartbeat does increase.

But really there should be any visual hinderence. And anyway in this game if you are being suppressed it's advised to put your head back down. As it's likely to be shot off in a second.

Bullet cracks might help. But they don't sound nice. Not all weapons would make them anyway.

But yeah desaturation of your vision only happens when you about to pass out due to the lack of blood reaching your brain. It's really weird but it does actually happen in reality. Not instant fade to black and white but the ability to perceive colours is greatly reduced.