Vienna to honour Austria's Nazi army deserters

[LemoN]

Also, it's not like soldiers of the Wehrmacht are not honored. Every village here has a "heroe's monument" for the soldiers who fought and fell in both world wars.

Have you ever seen a monument to those who served in WW2? That's what I'm talking about. Regarding dodging conscription, well, the sentence for that was death.

The main problem I have with honouring deserters is that most people who "deserted" earlier than 1945 would be recorded as POW's, not deserters. My point stands that many deserters in the last months of the war were actually NSDAP members who wanted to avoid capture.

 

[DraKon2k]

Well what do you expect from a city governed by left-wing social democrats and green party.

 

[[-project.rattus-]]

Political reasons aside, it's still strange that they'd honor "deserters". Full stop. It's not something you'd teach your kid...

Why not? Would you rather teach your kids to blindly follow orders?

And I don't get your point lemon. Deserting doesn't nullify your NSDAP membership, and deserters did not automatically become POWs. Many hid from the german authorities without surredering themselves to the allies. And there are many deserters who did so when they were drafted, before actually becoming part of the Wehrmacht, and a long way away from any kind of frontlines or allies to surrender to.

Of course, many of them were found out and killed.

But I think that the term "deserters" is the wrong one. I'd rather call the persons to be honoured "conscientous objectors", which would make clear who is meant and who isn't.

Well what do you expect from a city governed by left-wing social democrats and green party.

As if the right wing would do any better. The conservatives (

 

[DraKon2k]

[QUOTE='[-project.rattus-]but your statement is borderline stupid.[/QUOTE]
Looking at how I'm living in Wien-Favoriten(district with most foreigners and highest criminality) for 19 years now I'm afraid you don't have the right to tell me that. You might need a reality check. Also, a funny example: In my current work as more or less social pedagogue(alternative service but I gotta do pretty much everything, of course I don't have the education for that area) I have to bring a 7year old boy to school everyday. Right next to the school is a muslim kindergarten. Everything on the outside is written in what I guess is turkish, all the kindergarten pedagogues wear headscarves. The only thing written in german is on a big sticker on the front door saying "This kindergarten is supported by the City of Vienna"(Dieser Kindergarten wird von der Stadt Wien gef

 

[LemoN]

/facepalm

Thanks to Drakon2k, this thread deserves a lock.

 

[[-project.rattus-]]

In my current work as more or less social pedagogue(alternative service but I gotta do pretty much everything, of course I don't have the education for that area)

Honestly, that is IMHO the most alarming statement in your post...

And I agree with lemon.

 

[LemoN]

But I think that the term "deserters" is the wrong one. I'd rather call the persons to be honoured "conscientous objectors", which would make clear who is meant and who isn't.

Agreed, that's why I said I'm against these blanket statements.

 

[DraKon2k]

Honestly, that is IMHO the most alarming statement in your post...

And I agree with lemon.

Yes I figured that might come off wrong. I'm not calling myself something I'm not, it's just that my duties are 80% the same at the moment. But yeah that did come out wrong.

Also sorry if we might have derailed the thread, but I wouldn't let that stand if I see the reality everyday.

 

[Freak1]

Really weird situation and i really cant talk about all deserters in Austria..

I only know that in Slovenia a lot of austrian deserters joined partisan forces,they also had an Austrian company(early 45') in brigade,imo soldiers on both sides should be honoured.

 

[BlackLabel]

Political reasons aside, it's still strange that they'd honor "deserters". Full stop. It's not something you'd teach your kid...

Teaching kids not to bear arms for a country or a odd concept like a "nation" to hurt other humans from other "nations" is wrong ?

 

[hockeywarrior]

Oh boy I'm staying out of this one ...

 

[Merin Redplate]

 

[Zetsumei]

Dragon2k you scare me with your thoughts and mindset.

 

[fiftyone]

Oh boy I'm staying out of this one ...

Me too ...

 

[Alexander Ostmann]

And Ostmann.. wasnt there some kind of monument or something in Canada for Americans who fled conscription for the War in Vietnam?

There is? That's pretty disconcerting...

 

[Bluehawk]

There's a monument for colonists that fled in 1776 to avoid the Republic... does that count?

 

[Alvin Fuchs]

Teaching kids not to bear arms for a country or a odd concept like a "nation" to hurt other humans from other "nations" is wrong ?

Unless you're living in some fantasy utopia then yes, it is wrong.

 

[Murphy]

Well, the honouring of the deserters is mainly done because they were deemed as criminals only until recently.

Exactly.
Not having fought for Nazi Germany in ww2 just shouldn't count as a criminal act anymore and that's why they get "honored" now. Doesn't have a lot to do with awarding their bravery, as far as I know, but more with how their families don't get certain retirement bonuses because they still count as criminals.

Have you ever seen a monument to those who served in WW2? That's what I'm talking about.

In almost every bigger settlement, from villages to cities, in Germany you will find either a monument with a plate, or just a plate, with the names of everyone of that village (and surrounding settlements) who fell for Germany in ww1 and ww2. The caption for those who died in ww1 is usually a little more patriotic, while the ww2 one is usually kept neutral.
But the dead still have their names on memorial plates.

 

[NoxNoctum]

Unless you're living in some fantasy utopia then yes, it is wrong.

Or unless you value human life more than ideologies.

But then again, I guess valuing human life is an ideology. It's mine.

I wouldn't raise a weapon to kill even if it meant my death (no I haven't been in that situation but I have been robbed and "in fear for my life"). If it meant my family's death I'd just shoot the guy in the kneecap . And if my country (USA) were ever invaded I would dodge the draft and just try to help as many civilians as I could get out of town and into safety.

Call me a coward, I don't care. I'm not killing another human being.

 

[Fedorov]

It's not something you'd teach your kid...

I would.

YouTube - George Carlin - Dealing with BS Part 1

I don't think you appreciate your kid enough if you don't care about having him in a situation in which they will potentially, get killed, crippled, become a murderer, a rapist, exposed to cold, hunger, humiliation, suffering, PTSD inducing situations and horrors he will remember for the rest of his life... etc... THAT, is something I would teach my kid to avoid, instead of worrying about him playing Mortal Kombat or listening to atheist music.