Vienna to honour Austria's Nazi army deserters

[Alexander Ostmann]

"The Austrian capital Vienna has announced plans to erect a memorial in honour of soldiers who deserted from Adolf Hitler's army, the Wehrmacht."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13179406

First time in history deserters are praised?

 

[LemoN]

Tbh, I think they would do better by officially honouring the soldiers who fought and died fighting for the Wehrmacht. Most of them were conscripts and didn't have a choice.

I find it appalling that deserters and people who rejected and fled from conscription get more recognition than the common grunt who fought for his country because he had to.

 

[Pagan]

Tbh, I think they would do better by officially honouring the soldiers who fought and died fighting for the Wehrmacht. Most of them were conscripts and didn't have a choice.

I find it appalling that deserters and people who rejected and fled from conscription get more recognition than the common grunt who fought for his country because he had to.

Lemon that is so ****ed up in so many multiple ways

 

[LemoN]

Lemon that is so ****ed up in so many multiple ways

Really?

I'm Austrian, am anti right-wing, am fully aware of my country's past, am interested in History, know a LOT more than your average Austria about WW2 and how we got there, and I've read more accounts from people actually serving in WW2 than I could count. Now, here's what I think of all this BS of ignoring the people who suffered for their country.

All these "monuments" to deserters, people who rejected conscription, etc. are put up by POLITICIANS who have absolutely no interest in discussing this topic, let alone the knowledge to actually do it. They don't erect these monuments because they want to "recognise" them, but because it's publicity and it's simply a horribly fake act of trying to "battle" Austria's National Socialist past. If they actually wanted to work on our past then there's a pretty easy start. Fight the extreme right wing party that currently is approaching 20% in our parliament (which has strong bonds to many Neo Nazi groups or groups close to them)! Invest in history classes to educate people, invest in good teachers so they can actually get the kids interested in that subject, SHOW us that this MUST NOT ever happen again!


But no, instead we have slimy politicians, dehumanising the poor grunts who fought and died because they had to and making the people who deserted (and it's a pretty lulzy thing actually, seeing as most deserters on the western front actually were genuine National Socialists who wanted to avoid capture, the people who didn't have much to fear actually let themselves get captured and weren't counted as deserters but as POW's) look like heroes. It's like saying anyone imprisoned in a jail that just happens to contain political prisoners alongside regular ones is a hero. I truly believe that people who stood up to their beliefs and died for it DO deserve recognition, but I'm against any kind of blanket statement in any direction, be it at dehumanising people who served in the Wehrmacht or making all deserters heroes.


On a sidenote, who are you to judge if you aren't Austrian and haven't even got any clue how it was back then? Just gotta love those people judging hundreds of thousands people without even having a clue and telling other people how and what to think and telling them how it's "Wrong and f****ed up in so many ways".

 

[Alexander Ostmann]

Lemon that is so ****ed up in so many multiple ways

I can't tell if this is a troll...

 

[213]

"The Austrian capital Vienna has announced plans to erect a memorial in honour of soldiers who deserted from Adolf Hitler's army, the Wehrmacht."

[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13179406[/URL]

First time in history deserters are praised?

don't they have better ideas for monuments?

 

[fiftyone]

My wifes uncle was Austrian, from Vienna, he simply done his military service.
His two brothers were killed on the eastern front.
I went to stay with them for a week back in the eighties.
Fine people.

I'm backing Lemon here.

 

[LemoN]

he simply done his military service.
His two brothers were killed on the eastern front.

One of my grandfathers served on the Eastern front, he had 4 brothers of which 3 died, two on the eastern front (one during the Brest assault), one during the Poland campaign. All of them served in the 45th ID, based in Linz, my hometown. Just as a quick note, the 45th ID alone sustained over 5% of the TOTAL casualties of all German divisions in the opening stages of Barbarossa.

My other grandfather was in the HJ and was pressed into Flak service when he was 13years old, just around the corner from my house. One day a JaBo came around and strafed the Flak, he told me that they found one of his friends, 14 years old, hung up by his entrails in a tree next to the Flak. I know that he had brothers but he never wanted to talk about them.

None of those guys was in the NSDAP, not one of them WANTED to fight (although the one killed in Poland was in the Austrian army before the Anschluss). They were simply poor buggers born at the wrong time in the wrong place.

 

[Peter.Steele]

I'm backing Lemon here.

This.

I'm not a huge fan of deserters, no matter whose army they deserted from.

 

[smokeythebear]

This.

I'm not a huge fan of deserters, no matter whose army they deserted from.

If you were aware of what was going on behind friendly lines would you have still fought in the Wehrmacht?

 

[Klaus]

I can only imagine it wasnt easy to desert from the Wermacht. As a former military officer I can respect that..
And Ostmann.. wasnt there some kind of monument or something in Canada for Americans who fled conscription for the War in Vietnam?
And LemoN - say what you want regarding forced conscription, you can "go with the flow", be threatened and have your life threatened.. but how far would you go into massacring civilians? it was hardly only the SS who did this things, the wermacht (while not every single soldier, true) were an instrument and followed orders without question - even if it meant liquidating an entire civilian population.

 

[Fedorov]

because they had to

You mean the deserters didn't have to?

 

[Shadrach]

If you are in any way aware of that your army/country is involved in the planned genocide of civilians on a massive scale, it is not only right to desert; it is your moral obligation to do so.

So those that did it on political grounds, not just because they were scared of the russians, they deserve to be honored with a monument, in my opinion.

And yeah, I think most were quite aware "something" was happening to the jews after deportation, they just preferred not to think about it, and had been brainwashed by decades of nazism to not really care what happened to them anyway. Europe before 1945 is really hard to imagine today, but thats not to say nazism can't happen again, just in a different uniform.

 

[NoxNoctum]

Draft dodgers in Vietnam have nothing to be ashamed of. That war was complete and utter BS, throwing kids into a foreign country to get chewed up over political garbage. Just a giant dick waving act on the part of the US government.

Not to mention the fact that a lot of college students got out of the draft automatically, which meant it was mostly poor kids getting sent over to die.

My uncle dodged it through transcendental meditation lol. He lowered his blood pressure so much prior and during the exam that he got off. Funny cause he's now Mr. Fox News and super "square" . But he's a good guy, and I'm sure glad he didn't get sent over there.

For once I'd like to see an American politician stand up and say "Yeah, I dodged the draft, and I'm proud of it, cause that war was unjust and wrong and I wanted no part in it." Instead they always get bonus points when they bring up some half-assed "military service" record from that era. Man I wish my country wasn't so filled with hawks. If national socialism rears its ugly head anywhere I'm worried it could be here... instead of the Jews though all the hatred would be focused on the Mexican immigrants "stealing our jobs". Seriously the rhetoric over here is scarily similar to the kind of crap that was being spewed by right wing parties in the 20s and 30s in Germany.

 

[[-project.rattus-]]

Well, the honouring of the deserters is mainly done because they were deemed as criminals only until recently.

And I do think that having the balls to refuse to do the service for an agressive war for a murdering regime in a country where you're getting shot for doing so is worth honouring.

Also, it's not like soldiers of the Wehrmacht are not honored. Every village here has a "heroe's monument" for the soldiers who fought and fell in both world wars.

 

[KrazyKraut]

I fully respect people who deserted from the Wehrmacht for political reasons or because of the senselessness of the war and the crimes they committed.

I would assume though most deserters simply do so because they don't want to die. Though I can understand that, honouring them takes it too far. As opposed to the intended purpose, you don't honour an a act of bravery but one of selfishness.

 

[Klaus]

If you are in any way aware of that your army/country is involved in the planned genocide of civilians on a massive scale, it is not only right to desert; it is your moral obligation to do so.

So those that did it on political grounds, not just because they were scared of the russians, they deserve to be honored with a monument, in my opinion.

And yeah, I think most were quite aware "something" was happening to the jews after deportation, they just preferred not to think about it, and had been brainwashed by decades of nazism to not really care what happened to them anyway. Europe before 1945 is really hard to imagine today, but thats not to say nazism can't happen again, just in a different uniform.

As a jew I have to note that while the holocaust issue is indeed where it is, it wasnt only that but many other crimes the wermacht soldiers themselves were involved in, crimes like the termination of polish/french population centers, the mass rapes (something that the russians are guilty as much as them), the wermacht brothels, the extermination of POWs, reprisels actions (like what they did after the assassination in the Czech republic), human experimentation - it wasnt only mengale but rather wermacht officials who conducted experiments like freezing living humans, living on sea water, drinking fuel, etc..
and more and more..

 

[PUTZ]

Political reasons aside, it's still strange that they'd honor "deserters". Full stop. It's not something you'd teach your kid...

 

[Nestor Makhno]

This all reminds me a little bit of the row surrounding the play "The Monocled Mutineer" about the events at

 

[dogbadger]

For once I'd like to see an American politician stand up and say "Yeah, I dodged the draft, and I'm proud of it, cause that war was unjust and wrong and I wanted no part in it.".

only american politicians didn't dodge the draft because of any moral objections - they were as scared to fight as anyone but unlike ordinary ppl could do something about it.
And many such people will continue to use thier connections to avoid fighting in any war however just the cause.