I think you should re read the post of mine that you first quoted.
Lmao at yet another ignorant post though.
Venting rage.
- Thread starter TheBoobyTrap
- Start date
I think you should re read the post of mine that you first quoted.
Lmao at yet another ignorant post though.
Friend of mine soloed 89 zeds on HoE, wave 8, including a 2 man health FP, and 3 Scrakes using the flamethrower and Mac 10 only.
Another freind has done more than that with the Commando, using AK and Scar.
Changing the FP mechanics, reducing zerker speed, reducing damage resistance, will not do anything, unless it's reduced to the point of breaking the class. The other zeds need to be changed.
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@ 1st Wasted
Well in response, the idea isn't to make it impossible, its to make it BLOODY hard so that everyone and their nan can't do it without some serious practise.
I remember I managed to kill a fleshpound using the axe tactic from 2 attempts with the game as it is. I tried to do it as with a slightly lower level zerker and I severely struggled. Why? Because I'm slower, and therefore making the hit and stepping back out of the way is much harder.
Regarding the Firebug and Commando, they weren't really the point of my post, so I'll place my answer in a spoiler.
The Berserker sadly is more awkward, since he can kill a solo Fleshpound I think in 5 axe swings. However: -
- with a reduced speed making each strike is alot harder, because the window for attack is alot smaller.
- the pausing rage while out of LoS mechanic makes it so that any screw ups cannot be saved by simply turning a corner then healing before having another go.
- the pause rage effect while missing a swing instead of resetting the rage counter also forces the Berserker to rush this move.
It is still doable, but it is alot harder to pull off.
Well in response, the idea isn't to make it impossible, its to make it BLOODY hard so that everyone and their nan can't do it without some serious practise.
I remember I managed to kill a fleshpound using the axe tactic from 2 attempts with the game as it is. I tried to do it as with a slightly lower level zerker and I severely struggled. Why? Because I'm slower, and therefore making the hit and stepping back out of the way is much harder.
Regarding the Firebug and Commando, they weren't really the point of my post, so I'll place my answer in a spoiler.
Spoiler!
The Berserker sadly is more awkward, since he can kill a solo Fleshpound I think in 5 axe swings. However: -
- with a reduced speed making each strike is alot harder, because the window for attack is alot smaller.
- the pausing rage while out of LoS mechanic makes it so that any screw ups cannot be saved by simply turning a corner then healing before having another go.
- the pause rage effect while missing a swing instead of resetting the rage counter also forces the Berserker to rush this move.
It is still doable, but it is alot harder to pull off.
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You can laugh and toss insults all you want. But somehow you always refuse to answer or to explain any confusion.
Where is this assumption that kiting is an exploit coming from? I thought it was an intentional mechanic. Personally I think moving around and fighting within axe's reach is far more entertaining than standing in a small room shooting for an hour, but that's just me.
The zerker could use a damage resistance nerf (it's too forgiving of mistakes made against melee specs), but other than that it's fine.
The zerker could use a damage resistance nerf (it's too forgiving of mistakes made against melee specs), but other than that it's fine.
@undedd
The FP was not wounded, I got the 1st one, then got killed by 2 Ninja Sirens.
He simply kept shooting it once or twice with the Mac10 (enough to start the burn) before breaking the LOS. It took a long time, but he got it. It was om Wyre, outside.
The FP rage thing change would not bother me. To be honest, it's gotten pretty easy to kill them.
The FP was not wounded, I got the 1st one, then got killed by 2 Ninja Sirens.
He simply kept shooting it once or twice with the Mac10 (enough to start the burn) before breaking the LOS. It took a long time, but he got it. It was om Wyre, outside.
The FP rage thing change would not bother me. To be honest, it's gotten pretty easy to kill them.
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That is just something the zerker haters, or extreme dis-likers say. TWI left the FP rage mechanics as it is because they said they wanted the Melee class to have a chance against it.
I agrree with you completely on your point about entertaining. I got completely burned out on camping a very long time ago.
On that point, IMO, camping inside a room, welding, and welding, and re-welding doors to keep zeds out, while the rest of the team funnels the zeds into a bottle neck, and then mows them down with shotguns, explosives, and automatic weapons is no different than kiting. The only diff is that it's faster, and requires less talent (Hate using the word skill) to do.
A damage resistance reduction will not change anything. Before the Beta and all the changes, zerkers could do the same things they do now, we just used the xbow to deal with FPs because it was faster, and more ofthen than not, we used the medic class due to faster run speed, faster healing, and God like Kevlar.
I'm not against a damage resistance reduction, I thought the pre-beta was fine, my biggest thing was getting the katana auto fire implemented.
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I’m not even talking about “in the right hands”. I define “overpowered” as when the perk overshadows other perks, basically rendering them useless. Killing fleshpounds with the M14 isn’t too tough, but it is still easier to take them out with demolitions or support. You’re not always presented with the ideal circumstances that you have in testmap. Sharpshooters aren’t exactly killing fleshpounds before demos can lay down their pipes.
I never argued against a new difficulty mode. The biggest problem right now is how support is always a superior option and the ridiculous amount of dosh you receive as bonus between waves. I joined a game the other day on wave 6 and was given nearly 4000
Ah I get you, I did say using the break LoS exploit, but no big deal, tad bit of miscommunication.
Ah I get you, I did say using the break LoS exploit, but no big deal, tad bit of miscommunication.
Ooops, my bad, sry
Well, Berserker needs his speed and resistance, he has to run to enemies to kill them and beacause he's fighting face to face with zeds, he also needs damage resistance.
But how about giving him increased speed only if he's running forward? Therofore kiting would be much harder for him and he would have to take hits from fp, but it still would be doable. Also his resistance only applying to melee damage would be good idea.
But how about giving him increased speed only if he's running forward? Therofore kiting would be much harder for him and he would have to take hits from fp, but it still would be doable. Also his resistance only applying to melee damage would be good idea.
Rage fp on zerker does the trick, i do agree that it causes problems.
I only wish people could enjoy zerker without me being annoyed how boring they made it.
I'd reduce the money and perhaps add a few more zeds per wave. If you need to truly make every shot count and don't have enough dosh to stack 10 crossbows and M32's the game would be significantly tougher but still fair.
Regarding support, it's not the money factor as much as it's the incredible damage output, 24kg of carrying capacity and subtle speed boost with no downside at all. Sure, berserker doesn't have a downside either but doesn't really have a way to shiny with a normal, non-kiting team in most circumstances. There's already a topic on this with hundreds of pages so I don't want to repeat myself, but I feel this affects your average game much more than a team of kiting zerkers that you can simply ignore.
If you're not kiting (which can be avoided by simply moving to another server) and the map isn't Farm a berserker is underpowered at best and useless at worst. This is why I honestly don't think kiting is ruining the game and the actions to be taken should be up to the kiters themselves. I'm sure most people won't care if they all stop playing, but to lose one-third of the HoE/suicidal playerbase in a game that is over two-years old is probably not something that TWI would want.
Id say:
Decrease berserker and medic speed VERY slightly.
Give all perks regardless of level a 10% speed bonus in Suicidal and Hell on Earth (doesnt stack with other speed bonus). Also, make ammo boxes reappear a bit more than they currently do so melee isn't the only way to survive.
Decrease berserker and medic speed VERY slightly.
Give all perks regardless of level a 10% speed bonus in Suicidal and Hell on Earth (doesnt stack with other speed bonus). Also, make ammo boxes reappear a bit more than they currently do so melee isn't the only way to survive.
Originally Posted by the 1st wasted
On that point, IMO, camping inside a room, welding, and welding, and re-welding doors to keep zeds out, while the rest of the team funnels the zeds into a bottle neck, and then mows them down with shotguns, explosives, and automatic weapons is no different than kiting. The only diff is that it's faster, and requires less talent (Hate using the word skill) to do.
Thats it, just nope?
Well to each his own I guess.
For me, I find that camping is easy, as long as the team knows their function, the same can also be said for zerker teams though.
I'm comming up on 1500 hours played, and to me, zerking takes more talent, thinking, and adapting then camping.
If you are camping, and the SS misses the FP, then the Suppodt and or demo can deal with it, if the choke point starts getting over run, then Demo can blast it, or a couple of supports can unleash a furry of buckshot killing anything in front of them, etc.
I still play with other than zerk classes sometimes, and to me, it's nothing more than simple point and click.
If some of you want to call kiting an exploit, then fine call it that. But is it anymore an exploit than funneling them into a tight area, such as a hallway, or single doorway? IMO, no it's not, as both systems are taking advantage of the game mechanics to benefit the play style. Keep in mind that when things fall apart, 99% of the time, the gun classes will attempt to kite the zeds, rather than stand thier ground. So on one hand many call it an exploit, but as soon as the situation deems it necessary, many of the same people calling it an exploit use it.
Seems some people want to have their cake and eat it too.
On that point, IMO, camping inside a room, welding, and welding, and re-welding doors to keep zeds out, while the rest of the team funnels the zeds into a bottle neck, and then mows them down with shotguns, explosives, and automatic weapons is no different than kiting. The only diff is that it's faster, and requires less talent (Hate using the word skill) to do.
Thats it, just nope?
Well to each his own I guess.
For me, I find that camping is easy, as long as the team knows their function, the same can also be said for zerker teams though.
I'm comming up on 1500 hours played, and to me, zerking takes more talent, thinking, and adapting then camping.
If you are camping, and the SS misses the FP, then the Suppodt and or demo can deal with it, if the choke point starts getting over run, then Demo can blast it, or a couple of supports can unleash a furry of buckshot killing anything in front of them, etc.
I still play with other than zerk classes sometimes, and to me, it's nothing more than simple point and click.
If some of you want to call kiting an exploit, then fine call it that. But is it anymore an exploit than funneling them into a tight area, such as a hallway, or single doorway? IMO, no it's not, as both systems are taking advantage of the game mechanics to benefit the play style. Keep in mind that when things fall apart, 99% of the time, the gun classes will attempt to kite the zeds, rather than stand thier ground. So on one hand many call it an exploit, but as soon as the situation deems it necessary, many of the same people calling it an exploit use it.
Seems some people want to have their cake and eat it too.
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Thats it, just nope?
No I just wanted to be absolutely sure that you're interested in talking about it so I only said "nope" to see if you'd quote me.
Yes. Both are pretty easy. KF isn't a very difficult game, but I was never making a claim about this. Some people were I guess.
I disagree, I'll tell you what I think in the next quote.
Well, here's the way I see it. When you zerk-kite, your team composition is usually 4 berserkers, 1 medic, and maybe either 1 more berserker or some other class. Either way, it's clear that if that one other player attempts to camp, he will get destroyed because since he specializes in some role (for example, if he was a commando he'd be good for trash), the second a specimen came along that he was not able to deal with, he would either have to run or be killed, the former being something he would no doubt have trouble with due to not having all the zerk-specific advantages.
But forget that. Let's focus more on the zerk-team itself. Each member of the team is doing the same role - you're all running about chopping stuff up with your swords and your axes. The point is, no one member is very necessary as long as at least one of you survives because each member can fulfill the role of the rest of the team. To me at least, this doesn't sound very conducive to teamwork, if you know inherently that having your teammates survive isn't actually important. In a camp game, for example, you NEED everyone to survive. If the SS dies, you can't kill scrakes. If you demoman dies, FPs become harder to kill. If the support or commando die, it becomes harder to deal with trash.
Then there's also the part about how challenge creates fun. In a zerk-kite game, your #1 answer to 3 fleshpounds, 2 sirens and a husk is to run. Who would blame you, it's clearly the most logical option. What will the camp-team do though? They have less time to think of a strategy, less leeway in terms of dealing with it, and if they mess up (and as I said before, one of the specialists dies), they are almost guaranteed to lose. Suppose that the berserker team messes up and everyone but 1 berserker dies, then what? No problem, that berserker will kite the remaining specimens with ease and win the wave. I don't see this happening on a camp-team, but I'm not very concerned with "winning", just the fact that you attribute more skill to the clearly less skilled approach.
Mind you, I'm not calling berserkers unskilled, just less so than campers. It's a poisoned well argument anyway since "campers" is a stupid term in this context since really it's one of the only two ways to play this game. Whatever though. Also, the next time you get 2 FPs and a siren, try as you've stated and spam your AA12 or HSG, see what happens.
Well... that's what zerking is too. I don't think you meant this very seriously though
Nono. I'm not in that "kiting is exploiting" group. Those people are dumb. But as far as your argument here goes, you're telling me that two wrongs make a right. Suppose that I were to think that kiting is an exploit and would give you the burden of proof in disproving the claim. Would it make any sense, in terms of defending kiting, to simply tell me that I do it too? It might make me seem like a hypocrite but it wouldn't do you much good otherwise. Anyway this is irrelevant since kiting isn't an exploit, I really don't understand why people think it is.
Seems some people want to have their cake and eat it too.
Cake is delicious and you're silly for suggesting otherwise.