Value of a Lee Enfield Jungle Carbine

[Hanson]

I was in the local pawn shop looking around for a new rifle, and I found an old Jungle Carbine, it is in pretty poor condition cosmetically, but seems mechanically sound. He's asking $449, but offered to sell it to me for $400. Now, I'm no professional, but the condition it's in, I won't pay over $350 for it due to the fact of what it's going to cost me to fix it up. What I'm trying to find out is, what is the rifle worth in its current condition, what are they selling for in moderate to good condition, and what could I flip it for if I dress it up?

The current condition of the rifle is as follows:
Buttstock: Moderately low, multiple dings, nicks, ect. No cracks/splits
Metal Work: Moderate, most blueing is there with some nicks, scratches, ect. Someone has painted the forward sight pin a bright orange.
Action: Everything operates smoothly, and is not damaged.
The worst part about this rifle is the forward sling mount ring is missing and has been replaced with a c-clamp.

 

[Peter.Steele]

It's almost certainly not a real jungle carbine. There were a bunch of companies that did conversions of NoIII and NoIV rifles into carbines, called them Jungle Carbines, but they really weren't.

If it says No 5 Mk 1 on it, and it was made at either Fazakerley or Birmingham Small Arms - Shirley ... then maybe it's real.

Does it have the flash suppressor? What about the bayonet?

Also, there's some modifications to the receiver vs NoIII and NoIV rifles - you can look up pictures online to see what they are.

What's the import mark say?

What's the max range setting on the sights?


Quite frankly, at that price point you'll probably have a hard time turning it over, especially if it's a conversion. The conversions were made from rifles that were, typically, beat to crap already and are just basically a Bubba-ized rifle. If it's an original ... you might find a collector that's willing to pay for it, but you still probably won't get your money back out of it, especially if you've put any extra money into it, or modified it in any way other than putting correct original parts on it.

I was in the local pawn shop looking around for a new rifle, and I found an old Jungle Carbine, it is in pretty poor condition cosmetically, but seems mechanically sound. He's asking $449, but offered to sell it to me for $400. Now, I'm no professional, but the condition it's in, I won't pay over $350 for it due to the fact of what it's going to cost me to fix it up. What I'm trying to find out is, what is the rifle worth in its current condition, what are they selling for in moderate to good condition, and what could I flip it for if I dress it up?

The current condition of the rifle is as follows:
Buttstock: Moderately low, multiple dings, nicks, ect. No cracks/splits
Metal Work: Moderate, most blueing is there with some nicks, scratches, ect. Someone has painted the forward sight pin a bright orange.
Action: Everything operates smoothly, and is not damaged.
The worst part about this rifle is the forward sling mount ring is missing and has been replaced with a c-clamp.

 

[Hanson]

Well, I must admit, I don't really know anything about Lee Enfields, other than, they are accurate, reliable, and they are WW2 surplus, and that I would like to collect one. So, basically, I want to become a collector of firearms, but I simply do not possess the knowledge, I don't even know if my Mosin Nagant is legitimate... Could you educate me on what to look out for?

 

[LemoN]

All Mosin Nagants are legitimate... except "snipers".
For the simple reason that they are too cheap to make any "tinkering" with them worth it.

If you want a nice Enfield, either get a No1 Mk3* (preferably with a brass butt plate) or a early No4 Mk1 with the high quality peep sights.

 

[fiftyone]

This is perhaps the only riffle I have ever fired.
I found this page which is quite informative.
Hope it helps.

[url]http://www.telusplanet.net/public/philqgbr/enfield.html[/URL]

 

[Peter.Steele]

All Mosin Nagants are legitimate... except "snipers".
For the simple reason that they are too cheap to make any "tinkering" with them worth it.

My Mosin sniper is legitimate. It really was built in Tula as a 91/30 PU in 1944. There are a few Mosins that are pricy enough that there are some fakes out there. Can't think what they are right off - I've been off that circuit for a little while, and I think they're mostly the Finnish variants. Hm - one exception. There's an East German acceptance mark that is rare enough that it can command a pretty hefty premium, if someone realizes what it is. I haven't heard of it every being faked ... but that one might be worth it, were you so inclined.

 

[LemoN]

My Mosin sniper is legitimate. It really was built in Tula as a 91/30 PU in 1944. There are a few Mosins that are pricy enough that there are some fakes out there. Can't think what they are right off - I've been off that circuit for a little while, and I think they're mostly the Finnish variants. Hm - one exception. There's an East German acceptance mark that is rare enough that it can command a pretty hefty premium, if someone realizes what it is. I haven't heard of it every being faked ... but that one might be worth it, were you so inclined.

I was only talking about Russian (model) Mosins there, hence my reference to the "snipers". I know there are some 100% original Mosin snipers out there, but roughly 80% are faked or refubrished.

Finns are excluded for the simple reason that they are Finns and therefore smell.

 

[Peter.Steele]

I was only talking about Russian (model) Mosins there, hence my reference to the "snipers". I know there are some 100% original Mosin snipers out there, but roughly 80% are faked or refubrished.

Finns are excluded for the simple reason that they are Finns and therefore smell.

As far as refurbs go ... that doesn't make the snipers any less real. Mine has all the marks of being refurbed at an arsenal in the Ukraine.

But yeah, 100% original, all stamped matching ... that's REALLY rare. And also really hard to fake, unless you've got access to some really specific tooling. And it'd be probably easier just to CNC mill new parts from scratch and stamp them than to clean the original markings and put new ones on.



re: Finns - hahahah.

 

[LemoN]

As far as refurbs go ... that doesn't make the snipers any less real. Mine has all the marks of being refurbed at an arsenal in the Ukraine.

But yeah, 100% original, all stamped matching ... that's REALLY rare. And also really hard to fake, unless you've got access to some really specific tooling. And it'd be probably easier just to CNC mill new parts from scratch and stamp them than to clean the original markings and put new ones on.



re: Finns - hahahah.

Maybe refurbishing was a bad word... most of them are either faked or are a patchwork of different original/fake parts.

 

[Hanson]

So what do I need to look for to determine if this Lee Enfield is a real No.5? And what do I need to look for to determine if all the parts of the rifle match?

 

[Peter.Steele]

So what do I need to look for to determine if this Lee Enfield is a real No.5? And what do I need to look for to determine if all the parts of the rifle match?

Well, first off, go back and re-read post #2 in this thread.

As for matching parts ... check the serial numbers.

The real No5's also had a lot of metal removed from the receivers and barrel shanks.

There's some pictures here that show where the lightening cuts are. Also, the bolt handles were hollowed out on the No5's.


If it has those cuts on it, and it says 'No5 Mk1' on the left side of the receiver, then it's real.

If it was refurbished in India, then it probably has no (or very few) original markings left on it - they cleaned them off before re-applying their own - but it would have been made originally at BSA (marked 'M47C' on the socket for the butt stock) or at Royal Ordnance Factory Fazakerley (marked 'ROF(F)' on the left side of the receiver). The makers marks may be electro pencil or stamped - I'm not positive which - but the No5 marking should be electro pencil, which might make it seem fake at first glance.


Also, take down the import markings. Those will probably be on the bottom side of the barrel, near the muzzle.

 

[Hanson]

Well, this post is kind of pointless now, lol. I just bought an SHTLE No.1 Mk.III. It has all the proper stamping and the serial on the receiver and bolt match, however, i don't believe it is the original magazine.

 

[LemoN]

Ah, nothing beats the beauty and smoothness of a No.1 Mk.3.

Is it a Mk3 or Mk3*?

Nicest rifles ever produced imo.

 

[Hanson]

Edit: I just looked, it's a Mk.III* what does that mean?

 

[LemoN]

Google is your friend.

During the First World War, the standard SMLE Mk III was found to be too complicated to manufacture (an SMLE Mk III rifle cost the British Government

 

[Hanson]

Would you, by chance, be able to diagnose what is wrong with my Enfield? It seems to be having a hell of a time loading the last round in the magazine, the bolt just pushes the round down into the magazine, and slides over the top of it, loading nothing. Also, it seems to be having some trouble ejecting the rounds, sometimes it will send them away from the rifle, and other times it will just remove it from the chamber and im left with empty brass laying on top of the open bolt.

 

[Reddog]

The misfeeding issue is most likely to do with the magazine lips, the magazines were meant to be used as a fixed magazine and only removed for replacement at the arsenal etc. However a lot of people use them like a traditional removable magazine and damage can be done to the magazine lips this way. My guess is the magazine in your rifle has had this treatment, it can be easily rectified with a pair of pliers, do some googling and you'll find instructions. IF it's not that the other thing I would look at is the strength of the follower spring, as it could be worn out.

With the extractiong issue I'd look at the extractor spring, it's part of the extractor claw assembly and may be broken or worn out. Also check that the extraction screw is fully in, it's the screw on the side of the receiver which protrudes into the bolt raceway, it s mean to catch and flick the round out as you pull the bolt back. Make sure it's all the way in and not damaged.

 

[LemoN]

Did you buy it over the internet?

If yes and the seller didn't say anything about these problems then at last contact him and see if you get a small refund or similar. Selling a weapon with obvious (even if minor) flaws isn't nice.

If you bought it in a shop then.. well it'S your own fault, you could have tried it with some dummy rounds.

Anyway, just follow Reddog's instructions.

 

[Hanson]

These problems are extremely minor, and it's and 82 year old rifle, I wasn't expecting it to be perfect, the key selling point for me on this rifle was the bore being in mint condition and the action working smoothly and correctly. Fixing the magazine and the extraction of shells will be no big deal.

Edit: The store in which I purchased the rifle had no dummy .303 rounds :/

 

[Peter.Steele]

These problems are extremely minor, and it's and 82 year old rifle, I wasn't expecting it to be perfect, the key selling point for me on this rifle was the bore being in mint condition and the action working smoothly and correctly. Fixing the magazine and the extraction of shells will be no big deal.

Edit: The store in which I purchased the rifle had no dummy .303 rounds :/

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=972139

$9.99. Snap caps are good for a bunch of different things, and they'll be helpful in working out your magazine issues.