Update on the Beta - Part 2

[vyyye]

Please read my post with thought before you fly into a blind rage. TWI is still my favourite developer, and I am still buying the game and there's nothing wrong with the actual game or the delays, just the way TWI acted with the delays. It was shady and rather unprofessional. I am sure they are under a lot of pressure, but still, not the way I'd like to see my favourite developers to act.

There's a reason companies have a PR department/PR Guy who knows what can and can't go in and out of the company. Tends to show pretty clearly when there is a lack of one.
You can kind of see it from their perspective, they are working hard while the feedback on the forums is largely negative. It would feel 'unfair'.

However, that does not make it okay and if you look outside of these forums a lot of people are unhappy. I really hope they think twice if similar situations arise because TW really dropped the ball here.
If customers are unhappy you don't tell them to get over it, it just isn't how things are supposed to work. Or at the very least not how customers expect things to work when they pay for a product.

 

[JohnnyRaygun]

If TWI announced that beta is delayed then we'd be informed. Would make me and (i think) a lot of others a lot happier. And why do you think we complain? Because we're getting no info because TWI is scared they'll miss a date again. It will cause negative posts and topics to pop up if they announce a delay, but at least people are informed.

Leaving everyone in the dark causes 24/7 complaints and unhappy customers which isn't a very smart thing to do considering they're a company trying to sell a product - this isn't very good advertising. "Complaining so much will make them silent" are you seriously saying that a bunch of people complaining on a forum TWI doesn't have to read has made them crawl into a bunker and lock all the doors and shut the radio?

You know who said that? You Poerisija. Now you're informed and you're just *****ing again.

They never promised us a beta to be released before the 30th. They pushed back the game's release date because there were bugs. It would be common sense that even though not said, the beta would possibly be delayed.

You know why the beta is delayed right? Because if they released it in it's current state, people just like you, would jump on the forums and ***** about how the beta is so buggy. Would YOU specifically ***** about the bugs? I don't know, but I believe a lot of people will either way.

For a small gaming company, TWI can't risk that kind of bad press.

Also, just have some empathy for 1 min. Imagine if you put a lot of work into something you created that you'd like to share with the public. Now it has some kinks in the project. So while you work 12-14 HOUR days, away from YOUR family (or if not, girlfriend? friends? dog?) only to jump onto these forums to see people essentially spit in your face is ridiculous.

Seriously, just imagine it for a minute. That'd be pretty harsh huh? If you aren't happy with their performance, it's your right as a customer to get a refund. Outside of that, you have no rights for jack diddley. Get over yourself. Do yourself, and many of us supporters a favor and leave for a week. Even when the game is long out, you're going to just be "that troll" before release.

 

[Scrappa]

You know who said that? You Poerisija. Now you're informed and you're just *****ing again.

They never promised us a beta to be released before the 30th. They pushed back the game's release date because there were bugs. It would be common sense that even though not said, the beta would possibly be delayed.

You know why the beta is delayed right? Because if they released it in it's current state, people just like you, would jump on the forums and ***** about how the beta is so buggy. Would YOU specifically ***** about the bugs? I don't know, but I believe a lot of people will either way.

For a small gaming company, TWI can't risk that kind of bad press.

Also, just have some empathy for 1 min. Imagine if you put a lot of work into something you created that you'd like to share with the public. Now it has some kinks in the project. So while you work 12-14 HOUR days, away from YOUR family (or if not, girlfriend? friends? dog?) only to jump onto these forums to see people essentially spit in your face is ridiculous.

Seriously, just imagine it for a minute. That'd be pretty harsh huh? If you aren't happy with their performance, it's your right as a customer to get a refund. Outside of that, you have no rights for jack diddley. Get over yourself. Do yourself, and many of us supporters a favor and leave for a week. Even when the game is long out, you're going to just be "that troll" before release.

They didn't promise a beta before august 30th?

O'rly?

 

[[-project.rattus-]]

Oh man, some of you guys (many if those who sport an "Aug 2011" join date, just sayin') really need to grow an effing pair.

Not a real beta, but a demo? That's BS. It's an unlimited feature complete larger scale test run than the internal beta, which is used to hunt down issues that were not yet apparent. And the only thing that is required of you is to buy the DDe to take part in.
The only difference to an ordinary eta is that you won't be kicked out for not filing in detailed bug reports.
A demo on the other hand would be severely limited, either content wise, or timewise, which this is not.

And for your Info, I too did serious alpha and beta testing, so I know what I am talking about, thank you very much.

And concerning TW is "lying": You people saying that sound like little whiny *****es who spam global voicechat on xbox live with their high pitched children's voices. Because, most likely, you are that.

First of all, TW never said when the beta would start, and you don't have to be a genius to figure out that when the full game is delayed, the gamestate for a semi public beta will also be delayed, even if nobody effing told you so. So you people might also try to grow an effing brain to go with your shiny newly grown balls.
Secondly, programming is not a linear work where you know exactly what you have completed by certain points of time. Bugs might take longer to be found and fixed than anticipated, new features might not work as quickly as intened, etc. So don't throw a tantrum (like I just did over you) because a game and a beta got delayed for two effing weeks.

 

[fiftyone]

I'm not even going to install the blinking thing...

Don't ask me why, ok...

 

[Hooves]

I don't feel so much ripped off. I just feel that before TWI goes and pulls a stunt like an early beta access, they might wanna actually have their game ready for beta. I mean it just reflects badly on them for trying to pull something off when they CLEARLY were not ready to support. I have already cancelled my DDE and just went with the regular version because of this. I just don't feel comfortable dumping in extra cash on a gimmick that they cant pull off.

Ill wait like all the others. Being as I have never played the RO series (only Darkest hour) I would have to say the old saying "you never get a second chance to make a first impression" would be fitting here.


TWI has Blown its first impression with me and some of my friends. I hope they can deliver a good final product.

 

[Lobo]

There's a reason companies have a PR department/PR Guy who knows what can and can't go in and out of the company. Tends to show pretty clearly when there is a lack of one.
You can kind of see it from their perspective, they are working hard while the feedback on the forums is largely negative. It would feel 'unfair'.

However, that does not make it okay and if you look outside of these forums a lot of people are unhappy. I really hope they think twice if similar situations arise because TW really dropped the ball here.
If customers are unhappy you don't tell them to get over it, it just isn't how things are supposed to work. Or at the very least not how customers expect things to work when they pay for a product.

Not to get in a large debate over this, but how would you expect them to act? How is it that they keep us informed, yet there are people that continue to ask for more info?

They informed EVERYONE that the date was moved for release of the game but that there was no change expected as to when the BETA should be released http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=788372&postcount=24
As soon as that, changed they let everyone know http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=806303&postcount=20
If that is "dropping the ball" then I would like to see more developers do that.
If you have not read some of the post on these forums, do so, you might see that there are a few that demand everything, and when they get it they demand more, that would be why they said GET OVER IT, this is not meant as an insult to the people that can control their emotions, this is for the trolls that no matter how much you give them they will want more, they will complain to get attention and feed of of arguing, if there is no argument, they will most assuredly create one, they lack the intelligence to have a debate(without it turning into a flame fest), they are unrelenting and do not garner support except from others that feed off of that rude type of behavior.

I am glad that TWI is not going to tolerate that type of behavior, a standard should be set. Read some other forums that allow it to get out of hand, is that a place you like to visit or to have a discussion?

 

[Obnoxious]

It s a sad news because i bought the deluxe version only because it would let me access to the beta, and not for the weapons. I would prefer plays in a game with bug than don t play.
The reason it s really a bad news is that we are many (i think) who back at work the 1st september to prepare the school and i won t be able to play a lot of time after this day because work take too much of my time. When i bought the game on steam it was written the game will be launch the 30st august so, for me, the beta will be launch weeks before.
It looks like a swindle from steam for all of these who bought the beta in the purpose of play before their time was wasted by the work and study.

I apologize for my english, but i am only a french guy who paid 9 euros more than other people in hope of access the beta before back to work and won t get it.

 

[Poerisija]

You know who said that? You Poerisija. Now you're informed and you're just *****ing again.

They never promised us a beta to be released before the 30th. They pushed back the game's release date because there were bugs. It would be common sense that even though not said, the beta would possibly be delayed.

You know why the beta is delayed right? Because if they released it in it's current state, people just like you, would jump on the forums and ***** about how the beta is so buggy. Would YOU specifically ***** about the bugs? I don't know, but I believe a lot of people will either way.

For a small gaming company, TWI can't risk that kind of bad press.

Also, just have some empathy for 1 min. Imagine if you put a lot of work into something you created that you'd like to share with the public. Now it has some kinks in the project. So while you work 12-14 HOUR days, away from YOUR family (or if not, girlfriend? friends? dog?) only to jump onto these forums to see people essentially spit in your face is ridiculous.

Seriously, just imagine it for a minute. That'd be pretty harsh huh? If you aren't happy with their performance, it's your right as a customer to get a refund. Outside of that, you have no rights for jack diddley. Get over yourself. Do yourself, and many of us supporters a favor and leave for a week. Even when the game is long out, you're going to just be "that troll" before release.

Information made me happy. The fact they knew all along, but chose not to tell us, didn't. But, as you said, now we are informed and that is all I asked for.

I suggest you re-read what I posted and think what I meant with it. I made no demands, I just wanted to tell my decision and what led me to it. Once again, I have NO CRITIQUE at all towards the game itself. You're jumping into conclusions and assumptions and flaming me for no real reason. I specifically asked in my post not to jump into an emotion-filled rage-post which yours basically was. Oh well.

 

[Ddgamer]

Look if it was up to me and if everyone agreed I would let the game come out in December or something because the longer they develop the game the better of a game it will be and there would be less bugs so why don't you guys calm down and let them work if it was my choice the later the release the better the game and I know some people will wine and so nahh it should come out now. Well think about it for a sec you don't want it to be a crappy game that's full of bugs and bad AI it would just ruin the game and you be angry you spent $45 on it so stop winging and calm down.

 

[Char Aznable]

If customers are unhappy you don't tell them to get over it, it just isn't how things are supposed to work. Or at the very least not how customers expect things to work when they pay for a product.

This right here. After reading his post I was actually a bit offended at this. I understand they are busy but they made a mistake and took entirely too long to correct said mistake. Now a simple "We screwed up. Sorry, here is the correct date." would have been sufficient. But then to go so far as to basically tell us to deal with it or to get a refund is just unprofessional.

 

[godtom]

the game will be delayed 3 months. I think these bugs are bigger and badder then TWI is letting on.

 

[vyyye]

Not to get in a large debate over this, but how would you expect them to act? How is it that they keep us informed, yet there are people that continue to ask for more info?

They informed EVERYONE that the date was moved for release of the game but that there was no change expected as to when the BETA should be released http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=788372&postcount=24
As soon as that, changed they let everyone know http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=806303&postcount=20
If that is "dropping the ball" then I would like to see more developers do that.

It is what I would call "dropping the ball", if that wasn't the case there wouldn't be any outrage anywhere. Some will agree, others won't but the almost unanimous "I love Tripwire" attitude isn't quite the same on other forums from what I have seen, even here to an extent. Granted, someone will always be unhappy over something but there's a little more here.

We received mixed messages from Tripwire, whether it's 100% Alan's fault or not isn't really relevant. In the end it's Tripwire as a company, it can't have been unknown that people believed his faulty statements until now yet we didn't receive any word specifically stating he was wrong. You could argue that (as in the first link) they did say so, but as so many were confused it obviously wasn't enough. Same applies to beta/early access/demo confusion, the confusion shouldn't be there.

It should have been cleared up sooner, people will after all base their purchases on what they believe the product is (duh). No one likes being kept in the dark unless there was a very good reason, and no such thing was provided. I was personally unhappy that they had the 2 week target all along but chose not to tell us, for example. Would have been more than happy with that some week back, seems a bit late now (better late than never, of course).

If you have not read some of the post on these forums, do so, you might see that there are a few that demand everything, and when they get it they demand more, that would be why they said GET OVER IT, this is not meant as an insult to the people that can control their emotions, this is for the trolls that no matter how much you give them they will want more, they will complain to get attention and feed of of arguing, if there is no argument, they will most assuredly create one, they lack the intelligence to have a debate(without it turning into a flame fest), they are unrelenting and do not garner support except from others that feed off of that rude type of behavior.

I am glad that TWI is not going to tolerate that type of behavior, a standard should be set. Read some other forums that allow it to get out of hand, is that a place you like to visit or to have a discussion?

You have to understand that public statements to the community will hit more people than the folks you refer to as "trolls". It wasn't PM's, nor did it specifically state who it was directed to. There is always a vocal minority that is a bit unreasonable, but there were also posters who made an effort explaining why they were unhappy without attacking Tripwire, but instead attacking their methods.

Trying to communicate with a company that you purchased a product from and being told to "Get over it" and "Calm down" will undoubtedly make someone even more unhappy.
This is nothing comparable to Ubisofts DRM fiasco, but even if you disagree with the less satisfied people you should be able to see it from their perspective. If not that I doubt anyone would argue that this was handled perfectly by Tripwire.

Tripwire are obviously under a lot of pressure due to X and Y not going exactly as planned. Negative feedback isn't all bad though, even "trolls" simply complaining. If there are less of either next time around as the same situation doesn't repeat it's a good thing for both parties; the community and Tripwire.

 

[PUTZ]

Going to sleep isn't necessary, is it?

 

[Obnoxious]

That s a realy sad news for all the people who go back at work the 1st september. To be honnest I bought the deluxe edition not for get weapons earlier than other people, or get medals, I bought it because it was the only solution for me to play before I had to go back at work. With this report it s looks like for me as i paid 9 euro more than other gamers in the purpose of play at the beta but i won t play it because my work wast a lot of my time and i wont be able to play weeks after the game released.
It could look like agressive (i would like it wasn t but i miss some words in english) but it s looks like apparently a swindle from steam cause it was already written the game was realesed the 30 st august and beta begin before, after the news of the report was communicated.

I apologize for my english but i am just a french guy who paid for the beta and won t get it because, like a lot of person i think, the work will begin before the game will be launch.

 

[Rossi]

I would put money on the fact that most of the people on this forum don't actually know what a Beta is. Seems it's used more and more by Publishers (not always developers) to entice more pre-orders.

In software development terms, Beta phase generally means, every part of the specification is in place and is undergoing testing.

But theres a problem releasing a Beta to people who have already paid for the game, most people will just whine at the bugs, others will try and reinforce the fact that it's a beta and therefore bugs are to be expected. Then, when release day occurs, because of the beta release most people expect the game to be bug free.

Beta are bad if they are used to create more sales. Because the expectation is now set on the developer to provide the game early, even if the customers don't understand what a beta is.

The original post is right, releasing a test phase of a game to the paying public, in the full knowledge that the release has issues is asking for trouble.

Ho hum.

 

[GossamerSolid]

This thread should be closed, it's 17 pages of repeated posts, just worded differently and posted by different people.

Summary: People are angry from the lack of communication
Conclusion: There's nothing we can do about it, so sit back and stay calm.

/THREAD

 

[vyyye]

This thread should be closed, it's 17 pages of repeated posts, just worded differently and posted by different people.

Summary: People are angry from the lack of communication
Conclusion: There's nothing we can do about it, so sit back and stay calm.

/THREAD

There's always a possibility that mods have seen the thread and that they don't need backseat moderating, who knows?

 

[Char Aznable]

This thread should be closed, it's 17 pages of repeated posts, just worded differently and posted by different people.

Summary: People are angry from the lack of communication
Conclusion: There's nothing we can do about it, so sit back and stay calm.

/THREAD

The point most people are trying to make is that they want Tripwire to at least acknowledge that they made a mistake and took entirely too long to correct it. Though most people are also just arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

[Lobo]

vyyye, I would agree with you if it were not for some people showing their unhappiness based on other people's speculations of an expected release date.

When there are several posts that make guesses as to when a release will happen, and Tripwire has not confirmed anything (I remember an early post in these forums stating not to believe anything unless it comes from a developer). It would be hard for Tripwire to confirm something unless they are positive that it will be ready on X date. For anyone that has done any sort of work that requires a deadline this happens all of the time. It would not even bother me if it took 2 extra weeks to finish (past the 13th) as long as the game had less bugs, I have been waiting for quite a while already.

TWI is a small company that feels if they are going to release a game to the public, they want it to be done, not half finished with major bugs, promising to "fix it after release", just to have an angry community... talk about bad press. All this thinking that they LIED, STOLE YOUR MONEY, is just wrong, as they have said, they do not receive a penny until the release of the game, this would say to me that they do not like the delays anymore than the rest of us, and they want it finished. If some people are that unsatisfied with the time line, they have the ability to cancel their pre-order.

As for me I have been very satisfied with the amount of involvement that they have had with the community, that is more than I can say about many other game developers.