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Upcoming Changes to Monetization - And Why We Are Making Them

From what I can tell, most people (myself included) have no problem paying for new weapons if needed. The only issue is the price. IMO $10 per weapon is too much for two reasons:
  1. Cost over time: Assuming 4 seasonal updates with 2 paid weapons per update, that's $80 per year if you want all weapons.
  2. Cost versus number sold: Maybe someone at TWI determined that a $10 price point would make the most overall. Personally, I find it really difficult to believe that TWI couldn't e.g. sell at least twice as much at a $5 price.
Yoshiro;n2333854 said:
Finding the right value is never an easy thing to do, and if you undervalue it, you can't correct it. Everybody knows it has been offered for less so they won't buy it for more.

This makes me wonder if TWI is trying the opposite tack, i.e. high-balling the initial proposed price only to lower it before release and after the flood of community feedback.

pie1055;n2333906 said:
TL;DR, If anyone from TWI is reading this I have three requests/suggestions for the betterment of the shop and inventory- sorting, searching, and 3D preview functions. If you're having problems with micros the usability of the shop is where I would look first, 'cause it's currently not great.

Seriously, this. The UI might have been tolerable back when the Zedconomy was just getting started and there were only a few items on it, but it's become a nightmare now.
 
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Yoshiro;n2333946 said:
While the team is continuing to put thought on the future of the current implementation of the ZedConomy's crate and key system, we don't have anything to announce today.

My good Yoshi, be certain that I don't want to piss on your parade, but after a while I just had enough. I won't speak for the whole community (they'll do so themselves) but I'm personally fed-up.

I KNOW that Tripwire is NOT a very big team.
I KNOW that you got other projects under your belt
I KNOW that Killing Floor 2 is an old game.

But ****, some changes have been requested for YEARS now. What's the point of giving out feedback if we end up not being listened to? We didn't wait for DLCs to complain about the Zedconomy. Same goes for the Survivalist changes. Same goes for quality of life improvements. Same goes for the upgrade system. Same goes for the Abomination (which, thankfully, seem to come in the Fall update as you said)

Hell, most of us said that we were totally fine with skipping an update or two for a big cleanup on the game.

And again, I don't want to show disrespect for a studio that brought me so much fun and joy. I understand that game dev can be very time and ressource-consuming. And being the CM puts you in the nastiest place to get some flak. But boy... Focus on the right priorities.

More content is always nice, but after a while : we also need to have a game that doesn't crush on its own weight.
 
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Aleflippy;n2333960 said:
More content is always nice, but after a while : we also need to have a game that doesn't crush on its own weight.

Very much this. I always prefer quality over quantity, and an endless march of updates is not necessary at this point, I feel.

Copycat;n2333942 said:
Phasing out means removing the monetary value of all cosmetics while making it easier to earn them by merely playing the game. I have also spent a hefty sum of money on cosmetics and I am proud of my outfits, however, I do not wish to continue doing so because the expense is no longer justified by the fact that it finances the free updates.

As for the monetary value of the cosmetics I already have, I do not mind if they lose their value because I do not trade cosmetics for profit, I trade them to get the cosmetics I want, and if they all become free, I will be able to get all the new cosmetics I want more easily, which I should, considering that there is no reason for them to have a price tag on them now that updates are not free.

I would be pretty disappointed if they decided to remove ALL monetary value of the cosmetics and gun skins, since like I said, I have spent a good deal of time and money acquiring them. Maybe they could just leave the older cosmetics as they are, keep those older crates, and phase out the zedconomy just for the new stuff? That way, you could still get the upcoming cosmetics and skins for "free" (read: through vault dosh crates or certain amounts of playtime) without devaluing the precious and other rare cosmetics from before. Best of both worlds. Or they could just package new cosmetics together, as you suggested. I do like the RNG aspect of the rarer cosmetics that currently exist, though, because it makes it more fun when I see someone running around in-game with a precious or other rare version of something.
 
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GigaBowserX;n2333968 said:
I would be pretty disappointed if they decided to remove ALL monetary value of the cosmetics and gun skins, since like I said, I have spent a good deal of time and money acquiring them. Maybe they could just leave the older cosmetics as they are, keep those older crates, and phase out the zedconomy just for the new stuff? That way, you could still get the upcoming cosmetics and skins for "free" (read: through vault dosh crates or certain amounts of playtime) without devaluing the precious and other rare cosmetics from before. Best of both worlds. Or they could just package new cosmetics together, as you suggested. I do like the RNG aspect of the rarer cosmetics that currently exist, though, because it makes it more fun when I see someone running around in-game with a precious or other rare version of something.
Your items are not going anywhere, though, so why do you want them to retain their market value? Are you planning to sell them in the future? What for, profit? That is not what cosmetics are for. Cosmetics are for us to use, not for us to profit from, I do not see why this game should be treated as a money-maker because it is a game. And if you phase out the Zedconomy only for the new items, that would still mean I would have to pay for a lot of old cosmetics that do not fund free updates, which would not change my mind on not wanting to buy anything from Tripwire. I never said that new cosmetics should be packed together, I refuse to pay for cosmetics if I have to pay for updates (i.e. new weapons). Your argument for rarity is an aesthetic one rather than a consumer-producer relation argument, so I do not see its relevance.

Tripwire may proceed with its new practices, but I absolutely and irrevocably refuse to take part in them. The only way for us consumers to steer a producer into fair trade is by ceasing trade altogether until the terms of trade are amended.
 
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Copycat;n2333972 said:
Your items are not going anywhere, though, so why do you want them to retain their market value? Are you planning to sell them in the future? What for, profit? That is not what cosmetics are for. Cosmetics are for us to use, not for us to profit from, I do not see why this game should be treated as a money-maker because it is a game. And if you phase out the Zedconomy only for the new items, that would still mean I would have to pay for a lot of old cosmetics that do not fund free updates, which would not change my mind on not wanting to buy anything from Tripwire. I never said that new cosmetics should be packed together, I refuse to pay for cosmetics if I have to pay for updates (i.e. new weapons). Your argument for rarity is an aesthetic one rather than a consumer-producer relation argument, so I do not see its relevance.

Tripwire may proceed with its new practices, but I absolutely and irrevocably refuse to take part in them. The only way for us consumers to steer a producer into fair trade is by ceasing trade altogether until the terms of trade are amended.

I plan to keep all my cosmetics, so I'm not trying to profit off of them. I'm just a sucker for aesthetics, I guess. It's just nice to know that the stuff you have invested in has value, even if you don't plan on selling it. Why do you think people buy action figures and then keep them unopened inside their original packaging? It's fine if you want to forego any kind of trade with Tripwire from now on - that's your choice. As for me, I will continue to support them within reason (and the definition of "within reason" is much different for me than for many others, I'm sure).
 
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GigaBowserX;n2333980 said:
I plan to keep all my cosmetics, so I'm not trying to profit off of them. I'm just a sucker for aesthetics, I guess. It's just nice to know that the stuff you have invested in has value, even if you don't plan on selling it. Why do you think people buy action figures and then keep them unopened inside their original packaging? It's fine if you want to forego any kind of trade with Tripwire from now on - that's your choice. As for me, I will continue to support them within reason (and the definition of "within reason" is much different for me than for many others, I'm sure).
People buy action figures and keep them unopened because they are collecting for 1. the sake of collecting, or 2. for profit. If you are doing either one of those, the monetary value of your cosmetics is irrelevant, because 1. your collection is not going away and 2. you are not intending to profit from them at all. As for "supporting Tripwire within reason", there are limits to reason, not all choices are equally reasonable.
 
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I'd pay 5 dollars for each weapon without much thought, considering the included skins... but 10 dollars for one gun? It just seems so steep, and compared to KF1's 4 unique weapons for 8 dollars, it's a hard sell for me. I understand KF2's weapons require a lot more resources to make but I immediately assumed it was a pack, which ain't Tripwires fault, but I can't be the only one who immediately thought this, and it didn't even irk me until I read deeper.

people aren't happy about it: https://gyazo.com/3dd0218f863fc2d415faf528e1ca412d

On a positive note, I'd rather have this type of monetization than lootboxes 100%. The DLC Characters, Dragon & Koi packs, guns, emotes, ect; I'd rather know what I'm buying than waste away money with awful RNG, the market sorta alleviates this but I hate the changing prices, crap preview images that dont even show the correct texture sometimes and value based on random rarity. I honestly believe KF2 would of benefited more overall if it had KF1 inspired monetization instead of zedconomy. Sell me packs/items where I know the exact content. Sell me community made skins as a 'Battlescarred to Mint pack' so I don't gotta pay $2.50 for a CHANCE at what I want. It's anti consumer.

Oh and the new HRG weapons are a great idea IMO. More ways to screw around with the game's sandbox is fun. I think it would be more fun if the objectives each gave you a different gun to unlock. That's something I miss from Halo 3 with armor and MW2 with challenges, unlocking cool things to play with, use, or show off with luck and skill.
 
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Yoshiro;n2333845 said:
simplecat I am told in-game store.

I have a problem with this.
The currency in my country just tanked. 10 dollars was already too much to buy for A SINGLE weapon.
KF2 is regionally priced to be around 5 times less expensive than it would be otherwise, which is perfectly fine when comparing the cost of living here vs the developed world.

BUT

The in-game store prices are in USD, without taking region in account.

For the price of that DLC, I can buy KF2 TWICE.

TWICE.

So yeah, not gonna buy that ever.

edit: 4 times if I were to buy both weapons
 
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Copycat;n2333982 said:
People buy action figures and keep them unopened because they are collecting for 1. the sake of collecting, or 2. for profit. If you are doing either one of those, the monetary value of your cosmetics is irrelevant, because 1. your collection is not going away and 2. you are not intending to profit from them at all. As for "supporting Tripwire within reason", there are limits to reason, not all choices are equally reasonable.

What about a third option, though - simply breaking even? What if I decided sometime that I didn't want my cosmetics anymore or that I wasn't going to play KF2 anymore? I'd definitely want to be able to resell the cosmetics to recoup my losses, at least.
 
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GigaBowserX;n2333998 said:
What about a third option, though - simply breaking even? What if I decided sometime that I didn't want my cosmetics anymore or that I wasn't going to play KF2 anymore? I'd definitely want to be able to resell the cosmetics to recoup my losses, at least.
They are not losses because the assets remain with you. Plus that is like asking for a refund after finishing a game, that is not how refunds work, you get a refund if the purchase is defective, and there is a time limit to refunds. Asking for a refund months after usage is asinine.
 
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s5yn3t;n2333953 said:
Also steam.
ILU7Kw5.gif


I almost had a heart attack, when later refreshed it showed 786 players, and then lowest 584.... was thinking that players really gone boycotting because i never seen the concurrent drop below 4k

I did some poking around and I found that at the time you were seeing that drop that the number of players dropped that low for a few hours before going back up. Strangely, it's the only drop of its kind far as I can see. Maybe the servers/internet went down for those players and then later came back up?
 
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I am a new player, I have around 250 hours under my belt and I intend to rack up a lot more time.

I've had to turn Nvidia Flex off as it consistently causes crashing on my RTX2080, not the biggest deal in the world, but the announcement for paid DLC kinda left a bitter taste in my mouth.

I am not against paying to further support the game, in fact, it's something I would happily do, but there has to be a better way?
 
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Copycat;n2334008 said:
They are not losses because the assets remain with you. Plus that is like asking for a refund after finishing a game, that is not how refunds work, you get a refund if the purchase is defective, and there is a time limit to refunds. Asking for a refund months after usage is asinine.

Fine, call it "asinine" if you want, but I'm not asking for a refund. That is a whole different animal. In fact, the Steam marketplace doesn't have any refunds - all purchases are final. I'm talking about re-selling the cosmetics because the market is a living, breathing thing, with changing prices and values. It's fine if you're against capitalism and such, but you should still let us enjoy using the marketplace if we so choose. I don't know how they could safely phase all of that out, because if they decided to do away with it all, there would be a general uproar/chaos as people scrambled to sell off their most valuable cosmetics so that they could just re-purchase them at the new, lower price.
 
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GigaBowserX;n2334030 said:
Fine, call it "asinine" if you want, but I'm not asking for a refund. That is a whole different animal. In fact, the Steam marketplace doesn't have any refunds - all purchases are final. I'm talking about re-selling the cosmetics because the market is a living, breathing thing, with changing prices and values. It's fine if you're against capitalism and such, but you should still let us enjoy using the marketplace if we so choose. I don't know how they could safely phase all of that out, because if they decided to do away with it all, there would be a general uproar/chaos as people scrambled to sell off their most valuable cosmetics so that they could just re-purchase them at the new, lower price.
The market is no longer justified because Tripwire is going to charge us for updates. And no, it is Tripwire who should let us enjoy the cosmetics without putting them behind a paywall now that they are introducing paid weapons, the market is not for enjoying, the game is. The only people who are going to be upset if their items lose their value are people who are too busy trading items for profit instead of playing the game, and no, they should not be sold for a "new, lower price", they should be free because of the update change I already explained. Tripwire's focus should be fairness to us players, not to the micromerchants who are mining cosmetics with bots for profit.
 
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First fix in-game store to be more user friendly, having to scroll up after looking at 1 item is terrible experience.

I would buy honestly a Yearly Season Pass for maps/new enemies/weapons. Of course sell separately character skins, current way of buying skins that costs a lot of money ( honestly 15 bucks for a hat ). I just want a good store to browse cosmetics, preview them and buy. And buying keys 5 keys just to drop item you didn't wanted 5 times is a big no no. I stopped buying keys when it happened to me, but i bought Claudia Black character pack. Not only to support developers but I actually liked the character and it maintanined certain bar of quality. And most important thing, it was 100% chance to get her.

Make a rotational hat/weapon skin sales in the shop, so there will be like "Oh this hat is 50% off , im gonna buy it"

Weapon packs are gonna be hit or miss, not being able to make them stronger than free counterparts will hurt their design a lot.But if you make them stronger = pay2win
 
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Copycat;n2334115 said:
The market is no longer justified because Tripwire is going to charge us for updates. And no, it is Tripwire who should let us enjoy the cosmetics without putting them behind a paywall now that they are introducing paid weapons, the market is not for enjoying, the game is. The only people who are going to be upset if their items lose their value are people who are too busy trading items for profit instead of playing the game, and no, they should not be sold for a "new, lower price", they should be free because of the update change I already explained. Tripwire's focus should be fairness to us players, not to the micromerchants who are mining cosmetics with bots for profit.

I see your point, but you shouldn't worry about the "micromerchants," as it's really difficult to actually make a profit selling cosmetics on the market, in my experience at least. At best, you break even, at worst, you are losing tons of $$ as you open crate after crate or craft item after item looking for the precious or more sought-after items. I guess there are probably some people with bots who are able to farm thousands of low-cost items and sell them for five cents a piece. But with most higher-value items, the people who post buy offers put up a price that's way lower than what anyone would hope to make off of it. There have to be buyers for the high-cost items to actually turn a profit, and those buyers are few and far between these days.
 
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GigaBowserX;n2334146 said:
I see your point, but you shouldn't worry about the "micromerchants," as it's really difficult to actually make a profit selling cosmetics on the market, in my experience at least. At best, you break even, at worst, you are losing tons of $$ as you open crate after crate or craft item after item looking for the precious or more sought-after items. I guess there are probably some people with bots who are able to farm thousands of low-cost items and sell them for five cents a piece. But with most higher-value items, the people who post buy offers put up a price that's way lower than what anyone would hope to make off of it. There have to be buyers for the high-cost items to actually turn a profit, and those buyers are few and far between these days.
Then the traders are not even a valid consideration for keeping the Zedconomy and the only excuse that Tripwire could offer for keeping it is that they want to profit from us players as much as they can, which is not going to resonate with us considering the circumstances. Hopefully they will see reason and reconsider their paid DLC + Zedconomy plan.
 
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I'm surprised this game has not gone free to play yet, considering it's heavily monetized like one (and it's what all the negative reviews are pointing out). I feel like a majority of the money made from the game (well, most modern games) is from the microtransactions anyway and not with the initial game purchase, so why keep that barrier up?
 
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