Uniforms Discussion (Merged 18 times!!)

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vonRas

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Nov 25, 2005
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4) The panzerwrap tunic in-game (it's not the SPG type) was based upon better references than you posted, and is historically accurate as far as I could texture it with proper piping and insignia.
that means there is the same uniform for both SPG and tank units in the game? Considering some obvious limitations, I agree that it's very reasonable to have something in between. Regardless of that, it depends on what you use as a reference and even if it's some late or early war type uniforms like this one http://www.antik1941.ru/bimages/ppppzzz big.jpg (original) - still the stuff in the game doesn
 

Polygon

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Oct 17, 2005
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that means there is the same uniform for both SPG and tank units in the game? Considering some obvious limitations, I agree that it's very reasonable to have something in between. Regardless of that, it depends on what you use as a reference and even if it's some late or early war type uniforms like this one http://www.antik1941.ru/bimages/ppppzzz big.jpg (original) - still the stuff in the game doesn
 

Wolfstuka

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Jun 21, 2006
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Those black SS uniforms were only for hitler's personal guard and or something else. They did not wear those black uniforms in battle.
 

vonRas

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Nov 25, 2005
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Since Soviet uniforms and field gear are poorly documented in contrast to German and American militaria, I did have few references to go on.
True, a lot of good sources (including online) on the topic are in russian so many western researches are forced to rely on whatever they have left, considering RKKA ammunition is not the most popular topic out there.


However, one title I used, "Red Army Uniforms of World War Two" by Europa militaria does state that the snow suit, which was either cut as a greatcoat or two piece uniform, was worn over the basic field uniform (which in this case is the M35/36 gimnasterka). The book also features the model wearing the field gear on the outside, which I implied was for ease of access to his accoutrements.

Yes I know that book, by Anton Shalito and Ilya Savchenkov, and I guess that’s the page you're referring to (as it's the only winter camo set in the book ) - http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/7121/russianwrongcamoqy9.jpg I've highlighted some things for you :eek:



As you might know gimnasterka m35, to which you're referring, a standard summer uniform, is just a simple shirt and in combination with thin winter camo (like in the game...) would be a suicide to wear even in -20c (not considering the real tem. of -35>):D

Moreover, if you look at my scan and highlights it says "was worn over the basic field uniform and special winter clothing: Telogreika, sharovary, shapka yshanka, and valenki", yet, they dont have either on the picture :D (but here is what it means - http://www.rkka.ru/uniform/files/arm12.htm full set, sharovary (pants), telogreika (jacket), shapka (hat), and valenki (boots) :p (see some larger war photos on the page).

But anyway, I don’t blame anyone, as the book is very basic and not the best source to rely on at all, which actually explains why they've used the pre-war ammunition belt over the camo again just to show what was (potentially?) included in the set, as you can see those things are not water-proof, but his camo trousers - are, that is another reason to have it all under the camo + you have two, large-enough cuts on both sides of the camo shirt for easy access, as I stated above.

edit: So yes there are could be exceptions, as in any case, but you're not likely to find them to this particular one :rolleyes:
 
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jtkalal

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 11, 2006
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I dont care about the uniforms that much I would rather have the devs fix major issues mgs suppresion effects pov issues tanks etc.
 

D3terioNation

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Dec 15, 2005
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Did you even have to post that..? :rolleyes:

I think we should have a reconcideration by devs, as it would be more historically accurate to have the winter camo over all ammo & field gear!
 

2M|Bivoj

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 31, 2006
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1) Presently, there are no Waffen SS uniforms in-game, only Heer.

But there are waffen-ss units anounced in map text, they are on maps Barashka (5. SS division wiking) and Koenigsplatz (mix of various heer and waffen-ss units). And on some unofficial maps as well.

I just wonder why in so-called "historically accurate" game the SS units wear heer uniforms... In mod days, w-ss units wore correct uniforms and it is big drawback for me.

2) We do not have separate uniforms for the Gebirgsjaeger.

The same argument as in point 1.

3) No tunic was ever considered truly obsolete- during the war, the Germans did not differentiate between tunic models (this was a post-war collector's designation) and dispense of old stock . Therefore, it is highly probable that even as late as 1944 one could find recycled M35/M36 field tunics in active military service.

I know this - some soldiers had old M35/36 tunic even in 1945, but it was extremly rare. So, for historical accuracy, it would be nice to add some older tunics for our heer soldiers...

Also, the tunic model seen in-game is the M40, which is said to have been the most widely issued tunic running up to the mid-war M42/M43 type.

Mae culpa, I did not recognized it well... But my argument remains - why all soldiers in last days of Third Reich wear these old uniforms istead of more common model 44? (not talking about heer camo uniforms...)

4) We also do not have separate uniforms for snipers at the moment. Also, these sniper badges were based upon the amount of confirmed kills, ranging from 20-60.

It would be nice to include different sniper uniforms as well as some medals
or other awards (like sniper badge) - like in mod days (I remember some soldiers proudly wearing IC2 ribbon and some others winter 41 ribbon)
 
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Kenza

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 22, 2005
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Coz they redid alot of modells and other stuff plus not having a few years to get the things one ;)
 

vonRas

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Nov 25, 2005
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Did you even have to post that..? :rolleyes:

I think we should have a reconcideration by devs, as it would be more historically accurate to have the winter camo over all ammo & field gear!


Unfortunately, "reconsideration" of something obviously problematic is always at the bottom of the list. Sure thing smoke nades are more important. But again, as Alan told me a week ago or so, they have somewhat limited recourses right now (financial and time-wise), many people are off for a vacation, first time in 2-3 years, give the devs some extra time and see. My bet, you won’t see it fixed, but I know nothing anyway :)
 

Polygon

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 17, 2005
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Quote:
Since Soviet uniforms and field gear are poorly documented in contrast to German and American militaria, I did have few references to go on.
True, a lot of good sources (including online) on the topic are in russian so many western researches are forced to rely on whatever they have left, considering RKKA ammunition is not the most popular topic out there.


Quote:
However, one title I used, "Red Army Uniforms of World War Two" by Europa militaria does state that the snow suit, which was either cut as a greatcoat or two piece uniform, was worn over the basic field uniform (which in this case is the M35/36 gimnasterka). The book also features the model wearing the field gear on the outside, which I implied was for ease of access to his accoutrements.

Yes I know that book, by Anton Shalito and Ilya Savchenkov, and I guess that
 

Taranov

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 19, 2005
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Thx to vonRas for my uniform "review" translate ;)

2 Polygon: if you haven't had physical access to the Soviet winter camouflage suits, i can help. Just try use something like overall over summer dress in winter, with -15-20C for better effect (not too cold for russian december-january). Using summer uniform of german soldiers give same effect:p

Red Army winter camo - it's NOT german winter suit. It's advanced cloak - pants and shirt, no more. It's just addition for basical winter uniform.

And if you use only reenactors stuff for reference, you haven't any rights for speaking "historical correct uniform". Remember that ;) Only mixture of wartime shots and modern shots of uniform and equipment. On this shot you can see result of correct references using ;)
http://forgottenhope.bf1942files.com/images/news/181 - dak_soldier.jpg
 

Polygon

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Oct 17, 2005
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Thx to vonRas for my uniform "review" translate ;)

2 Polygon: if you haven't had physical access to the Soviet winter camouflage suits, i can help. Just try use something like overall over summer dress in winter, with -15-20C for better effect (not too cold for russian december-january). Using summer uniform of german soldiers give same effect:p

Red Army winter camo - it's NOT german winter suit. It's advanced cloak - pants and shirt, no more. It's just addition for basical winter uniform.

And if you use only reenactors stuff for reference, you haven't any rights for speaking "historical correct uniform". Remember that ;) Only mixture of wartime shots and modern shots of uniform and equipment. On this shot you can see result of correct references using ;)
http://forgottenhope.bf1942files.com/images/news/181 - dak_soldier.jpg

No, I use both a mixture of correctly made reproductions and original uniforms (and naturally any photographic references which can be had).
 

Polygon

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 17, 2005
604
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There are also period postcards as well which show Soviet scouts wearing field gear over winter snow suits. Due to the inconsisteny of winter suits, it is possible that with some of the other varieties (type cut as a great coat) or even with the regular version, that field gear could be worn over the suit.

At any rate, mistakes happen, and no one (including yourself) is impervious to them.