Uniforms and ruggedness.

[Nezzer]

Because they did in real life. Why do the Wehrmacht get the advantage of better tank optics in the Panzer IV, or why do they get the better MG than the Soviets?

Because they did in real life.

In RO, it's up the mappers to balance the maps, not tweaking the equipment. Camo uniforms are equipment, so they should stay true.

Actually it's was very rare to see Russians wearing winter camo in WW2 since most of them would only wear those brown greatcoats and telogreikas in the winter. It was basically only elite units wearing winter camo on the Red Army, while on the Wehrmacht it was a lot more common, but not in Stalingrad.

 

[PilotPirx]

Imho, to find reliable link or photos isn't so trivial as it seems. Some times i was stuck in "funneh" photos, what was with wrong data or wrong place.
Though that isn't SO insurmountable problem.

One photo from russian archives - german soldiers, dated december of 1942 in Stalingrad (maybe somewhere near Stalingrad).

How proof that is, i don't know. And when even proof, maybe only small part of all soldiers.
But at same time, i doubt also that we can use as proof looks of german POW. There was some reasons.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

E: OK, now one pics about fresh german POWs....Described as february 1943 in Stalingrad, POWs from 11th German Corps.

 

[Nimsky]

The newbies are just raw recruits who just got there, easy.

 

[Dwin]

The newbies are just raw recruits who just got there, easy.

Except after the German encirclement, there could not have been any raw recruits who "just got there", which is the OP's point.

Why do you quote me if you don't read (or at least try to understand) my post?

Unlike the Mkb. 42, Stalingrad is well documented. We know the German Army was cut off and surrounded.

 

[Mormegil]

lol wtf you call that a reliable link ? i dont think so

next time please a something what has not been researched by a conspiracy guy.

I'm not one to buy into conspiracy theories. I didn't realize Dan Carlin was considered a conspiracy nut.

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the Germans were short on winter gear. Now, I'm not so sure on Soviet winter camo use.

 

[Oldih]

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the Germans were short on winter gear. Now, I'm not so sure on Soviet winter camo use.

I think it would be in order to clarify what exactly is this whole "winter gear" thing, as basically standard issue overcoat - which was carried even in summermarches - is winter clothing or 'gear' as you rarely use those in summer. Germans didn't really have specific snow camouflage, parkas or anything in Stalingrad in large quantities and if they had the camouflage was often improvised, sometimes just looted from dead russians.

As for Md.Ghost:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...-001,_Russland,_Kesselschlacht_Stalingrad.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...6619,_Russland,_Kesselschlacht_Stalingrad.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...-308,_Russland,_Kesselschlacht_Stalingrad.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dc/Stalingrad_battle_for_the_factory.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...2-010,_Kolonne_deutscher_Kriegsgefangener.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/German_pows_stalingrad_1943.jpg

First four photos are all russians, and only in the last photo you can see what seems to be captured russian camouflage eguipment. All of them are from german archives, and in case if you want to dig up even more: http://www.bild.bundesarchiv.de/

 

[RedGuardist]

Actually it's was very rare to see Russians wearing winter camo in WW2 since most of them would only wear those brown greatcoats and telogreikas in the winter.

Simply put, this is not true. Your comment would be close to truth, if we were talking about Winter War. But when we are talking about the Soviet equipment in the winter 1942-43, your statement is just simply completely untrue.

 

[MD.GHOST]

i am also for realism

i am also for realism

But when it comes to fairness i should be both team either have camouflage or not. i dont care if its historical accurate btw we also have the mkb42 inside and that was pretty rare. so i say make it even for both teams and not unfair.

 

[Nezzer]

Simply put, this is not true. Your comment would be close to truth, if we were talking about Winter War. But when we are talking about the Soviet equipment in the winter 1942-43, your statement is just simply completely untrue.

Well, I think I've never seen footage of Russians troops wearing winter camo in Stalingrad, and most pictures from WW2 taken during the winter don't show Russians wearing winter camo, except for scouts. I don't think it was widely issued to the troops. Try finding a few on this website: http://www.ww2incolor.com/soviet-union/

 

[Snuffeldjuret]

... We know the German Army was cut off and surrounded.

I was not talking about reinforcements. I was just talking about extra clean clothes. Who knows what cloths they had stored. Bunny costumes, sexy nurse costumes, fresh german uniforms, you name it =).

 

[sturmfuhrer]

I think the Germans should, at least in winter maps have the M36 Greatcoat, possibly a camouflage helmet cover, scarf rapped around head, gloves & in some very rare cases a camouflaged smock made out of the tent material all soldiers carried.

Similarily just to point out, some pictures dated December 1942 - 1943 could be photos of the German forces sent to breakthrough the Stalingrad encirclement, these troops would and could have been supplied with proper winter clothing after the need for such eventually became clear. Some might even have been taken capture and thus have been detained along with soldiers captured from within Stalingrad. Camoulflaged soldiers from the Breakthrough army + non- camoulflaged soldiers from within stalingrad = Both camouflaged and non-camouflaged PoW's.

Sturm

 

[Nimsky]

Except after the German encirclement, there could not have been any raw recruits who "just got there", which is the OP's point.

If this game is to be 100% accurate, the German team won't be able to win the multiplayer campaign.

You can't simulate everything that happened IRL. It's still a game. Yes, a realistic one, but still a game.

In many ways, RO2's MP campaign is kind of a 'what if' scenario anyway. In other words: the German encirclement doesn't take place in RO2, and the Germans can win the battle. The map descriptions will likely contain references to the encirclement, but that doesn't mean that the encirclement will be 100% accurately portrayed. Complaining about these abstractions is pedantic.

 

[Mormegil]

But when it comes to fairness i should be both team either have camouflage or not. i dont care if its historical accurate btw we also have the mkb42 inside and that was pretty rare. so i say make it even for both teams and not unfair.

I believe this opinion is contrary to TWI design philosophy. Otherwise, they would nerf the MG-42 in ROOST for fairness for example.

I don't think they balance equipment for balance's sake. People may argue over the accurate modeling of weapons, which can lead to imbalance, but I honestly thing TWI tries to keep things as accurate as they can to what they believe is reality.

 

[Nicholas]

If this game is to be 100% accurate, the German team won't be able to win the multiplayer campaign.

You can't simulate everything that happened IRL. It's still a game. Yes, a realistic one, but still a game.

In many ways, RO2's MP campaign is kind of a 'what if' scenario anyway. In other words: the German encirclement doesn't take place in RO2, and the Germans can win the battle. The map descriptions will likely contain references to the encirclement, but that doesn't mean that the encirclement will be 100% accurately portrayed. Complaining about these abstractions is pedantic.

Maybe thats true for the campaign, but what if the Germans DO start to lose in the campaign, and what about regular MP matches that portray a map how it was?

 

[MD.GHOST]

to mormegil. your jokin or?

to mormegil. your jokin or?

the mg 42 in roost is a mess, i hope you played darkest hour there the mg 42 is correctly shown and works almost like in real life with the recoil.
in roost i just jumps to different directions even the dp is more easy to controll there and the you can hip shot it. it has shown that assault firing the mg 42 was thing not all soldiers made but some did and that should be also shown accurate. i mean ok you can press the trigger only for a really short amount of time lets say 1 or 2 seconds but you can that should be also ingame. hopefully in HoS there will be not be such pro russian advantages. Or another thing was the Tiger tank getting shot down for many months with a T34/76 to the front with on shot, until the patch arrived.

 

[Mormegil]

the mg 42 in roost is a mess, i hope you played darkest hour there the mg 42 is correctly shown and works almost like in real life with the recoil.
in roost i just jumps to different directions even the dp is more easy to controll there and the you can hip shot it. it has shown that assault firing the mg 42 was thing not all soldiers made but some did and that should be also shown accurate. i mean ok you can press the trigger only for a really short amount of time lets say 1 or 2 seconds but you can that should be also ingame. hopefully in HoS there will be not be such pro russian advantages. Or another thing was the Tiger tank getting shot down for many months with a T34/76 to the front with on shot, until the patch arrived.

But isn't it more fair to have the T34/76 be a match for the Tiger? I thought you want equipment fairness over realism?

But when it comes to fairness i should be both team either have camouflage or not. i dont care if its historical accurate btw

Or do you just want to make sure there aren't any advantages to the Soviet side?

 

[Nimsky]

Maybe thats true for the campaign, but what if the Germans DO start to lose in the campaign, and what about regular MP matches that portray a map how it was?

See:

You can't simulate everything that happened IRL. It's still a game. Yes, a realistic one, but still a game.

 

[skittlesareyum47]

Above all, I want to see great coats. I do want to see White camo also, but great coats are almost a must. Also, as far as winter maps go, I don't mind seeing soldiers in summer clothes, since that did happen a lot (especially for the Germans) but I hope to see SOME type of alternate winter clothing, whether a great coat or winter camo.

 

[lyosha]

I would like to see a mix between the Telogreika (padded jackets) and the Shinels (Greatcoats) for the RKKA. From what i've been told by people far more knowledgable than me on the RKKA, they were either issues Telogs or shinels, rarely both, which was the pre-war set up. The pre-war idea was that the telog acts as a insulator whilst the shinel keeps the wind off you. War-time shortages didn't allow for this.

 

[Nezzer]

I don't mind seeing soldiers in summer clothes, since that did happen a lot (especially for the Germans)

No, they would never fight at -30