Unidirectional bullet penetration for some walls??

[Johnny Utah]

Discovered an interesting phenomena on the server and tested it with B-Dawg Street. (I searched previous bullet penetration threads and did not see this discussed -- so I apologize in advance if information is duplicative).

Some walls can be penetrated only unidirectionally by gunfire and it appears to always be a one-way direction (interior to exterior). I suspected something was amiss one day when I fired through a wall knowing an enemy lurked on the other side. Nothing happened. Then, he fired back through the wall from the inside of the building and killed me....???

It appears that, for some external walls on specific buildings, one can fire through walls from the inside to outside but not from the outside to inside. In contrast, some walls are bidirectional as one might expect (such as infirmary on barracks).

One set of examples of unidirectional exterior walls (there are many more I tested but I can't recall specifically...it got confusing):

--Objectives A and D on Commisars.


What's the rationale behind this? It also appears to be caliber-independent since I tested with both handgun, MG, and ppSH.

 

[Proud_God]

If you add me on Steam, I'd be glad to experiment some wall penetrations with you.

 

[Goten]

Discussed long time ago.

Depends on the "tile" of the wall. There is a pattern, check it out

 

[Giuliano]

If you add me on Steam, I'd be glad to experiment some wall penetrations with you.

Kinky.

I've never really noticed bullet penetration. To me it just seems kind of random, but that probably because I play with too many people to experiment with it.

 

[Mekhazzio]

Discussed long time ago.

Depends on the "tile" of the wall. There is a pattern, check it out

Yep. The hardness of the surface you're penetrating is based on the texture you're impacting. When walls have a different texture on either side, it can result in one-way penetration.

It's partly a technical limitation and partly a map design error. The mappers should've been more consistent in avoiding it, especially in high-traffic areas like main hallway of the NCO Barracks.

 

[Yurizle]

Mormegril is also a guy to speak to since hes onto testing wall penetration and we were having a discussion about this yesterday.

I noticed this as well a while back but since I never cared it didnt bothered me as much untill I tried and I was farming kills so I felt shady. Here is my theory:

Alot of the wall tile sets you can clip through. For instance in Barracks in C building you can clip through a wall and see the enemy coming before it see you however your weapon holding animation changes so you cannot shoot but you can zoom look to see the enemy coming from even farther. Shooting at that wall will penetrate it and kill the enemy leaving them ?. Same thing in Fallen Fighters I tried yesterday in the parks.

Smoke is also tiles if you nudge your self correctely you can completely get your self into proper position where as though you are in the middle of the smoke screen but you can see without any limitations. Alot of times when people shoot your through smoke in close combat and kill you and you get the whole "how did that happen" is because they positioned them selves so trickly that they are not in smoke even though they are completely covered by it.

Just think of the many times we've all seen bayonets clip through a wall by a crouched waiting enemy? Shooting that wall almost always resulted in what I will call now is "unofficial bullet penetration"

Point is that any wall you can at the very least 1/2 clip your self through you can probably penetrate. How ever the enemy can do it as well so its a matter of whos going to exploit it first.

Alot of games have this actualy *shrugs*

 

[RAF_Pstyle]

penetration.




sorry.
I had to say it
Juvenile I know.

where's my coat got to?

 

[AmazingMilto]

He has a point, Ive killed people plenty of times when they are hiding in a building.

Ive never killed someone hiding outside of the building, no matter how much I shoot, I just thought I was missing.

 

[Mormegil]

I really don't think the clipping has anything to do with penetration. Clipping is a function of the geometry, while the penetration is a function of the texture your bullet is hitting.

To clarify, the discrepancy is, if you have a brick wall on one side, with plaster on the other, you'll get better bullet penetration firing into the plaster than firing into the bricks. This doesn't make sense, since the bullet should be going through both plaster and brick layers.

I don't know what happens if you fire while clipping, since the bullet probably spawns at the end of the weapon. I think the reason you're able to kill effective while clipping Yurizle, is because you KNOW there's somebody there and know where to aim.

 

[Yurizle]

The whole clipping wall makes it easy to penetrate is just my theory (among other crazy theories we all conjure up at times).

Gun animation changes when cliped through a wall so you can't persay shoot while clipped but yes knowing where your enemy is make it easier to "penetrate" said clipped wall. Regardless, it's an exploit which everyone uses sadly and I hope something is done about it as soon as possible.

I'd really like to test this some more as another instance that I find silly is that bullets may penetrate wall but not sand bags hehe.

 

[Mormegil]

I'd really like to test this some more as another instance that I find silly is that bullets may penetrate wall but not sand bags hehe.

Sand bags are designed to stop bullets, so that makes perfect sense. Except for the PTRS.

Unless you mean when sandbags are on the inside of a wall, so you effectively can't shoot outward, but can get killed by somebody shooting inward hitting the outer wall. Yeah, that sucks.

 

[Johnny Utah]

To clarify, the discrepancy is, if you have a brick wall on one side, with plaster on the other, you'll get better bullet penetration firing into the plaster than firing into the bricks. This doesn't make sense, since the bullet should be going through both plaster and brick layers.

exactly! i dont know anything about programming, but if its a differential tile property then one tile layer should be impenetrable from either direction. but in RO2, you can fire through some walls from the inside through walls to the outside but not vice versa....

 

[SnowyOak]

I've seen this also. The one example I know is the allied spawn side building on apartments can be shot from the interior out but not from the outside in. There are some unusual things on fallen fighters as well.

 

[Apos]

You cannot penetrate a wall from the side which has bricks on it.
You can penetrate (almost) all walls with flat texture, even if another side has bricks on it.

Best way to test it is 1st flag on TE-Comissars House. Building there has bricks outside and flat wall inside. You can shoot from inside thru a wall and kill a guy behind it, but you cannot penetrate same wall from outside and kill a guy inside the building.

TWI's realism and physics.

 

[Mekhazzio]

It's par for the course, and a side-effect of how games are made rather than any intentional decision. The simplest way to put it is that the interior volumes do not exist. A game wall is not built with a foot of bricks and a few inches of plaster, it's built with a single-sided polygon placed a couple feet away from another single-sided polygon facing the opposite direction. From the viewpoint of a projectile in the game, all it's seeing is open air, then an infinitely thin surface, and then more open air. The other side of the wall is invisible to the projectile, as is the void in between.

There is no way of naturally simulating passage through a medium when the medium isn't in your data. And so the penetration system in RO2, like in every other game that attempts it, is an awkward series of tests and assumptions to try to guess the result that's desired by the smoke and mirrors in use by the mappers. The code's not going to be a DARPA project in the best of cases, but it's as reasonably good as can be expected. A better solution, code-wise, would come with significantly higher overheads in computation or memory, and RO2 can't really afford either, and most of those would still fall apart if the mappers are making the same sorts of basic human oversights like the ones that lead to this.

 

[DarkestEvil]

First of all: to effectively penetrate through the wall, you need a big weapon. That is one of the most important factors, because otherwise if the wall is too thick, it will be too difficult to go through the wall and into your target. Then, it's a matter of using your imagination to figure out where your target is, and what they might be doing. This helps ready your weapon for contact, and could produce much higher velocity projectile in the long run. Last but certainly not least, it is mandatory to engage the target through a hole which has been cut out through the wall, making a 'glory hole'. This kind of engagement means that you can effectively penetrate through the wall, with your large weapon sticking through the hole, and thus produce a satisfactory engagement with your target. It helps if you make it obvious that the hole in the wall is in fact a glory hole. Try engaging your targets in environments such as public toilets, this is a common place for such activities.

 

[Nikita]

first of all: To effectively penetrate through the wall, you need a big weapon. That is one of the most important factors, because otherwise if the wall is too thick, it will be too difficult to go through the wall and into your target. Then, it's a matter of using your imagination to figure out where your target is, and what they might be doing. This helps ready your weapon for contact, and could produce much higher velocity projectile in the long run. Last but certainly not least, it is mandatory to engage the target through a hole which has been cut out through the wall, making a 'glory hole'. This kind of engagement means that you can effectively penetrate through the wall, with your large weapon sticking through the hole, and thus produce a satisfactory engagement with your target. It helps if you make it obvious that the hole in the wall is in fact a glory hole. Try engaging your targets in environments such as public toilets, this is a common place for such activities.

 

[Mormegil]

It does double the calculation, but I don't see why the engine can't do a reverse calculation on penetration IF a bullet does go through one side.

For example, you fire at an enemy with a plaster wall in the way. Original calculation scores a hit through the plaster wall. New second calculation just does a redundancy check by backtracking the bullet path - if it hit sand bags, then cancel the hit. If it's brick (rifle bullets should penetrate brick), plaster or wood - keep the hit.

 

[Coolicus]

Just bumping this because it is really important they try and resolve this.

If you can't do penetration both ways through what is supposed to be the same medium then I don't think the object should be penetrable at all as it's surely worse to get shot through a wall you cannot shoot through than no one being able to shoot through the wall.

 

[Knil]

What it sounds like to me is some walls like to catch the bullets while others prefer penetration. The bullet can go either way so who knows what it will penetrate.