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UNBELIEVABLE PS4 STILL FORCES 9MM ON ROTATION!!!!

bwarp

Member
Aug 8, 2017
31
1
8
Hi.

I've not even bothered to search the forums to see this issue having been discussed recently. I was involved in NUMEROUS posts about it over a year or so again. I've played this game lots and before STOPPING PLAYING entirely because of this issue I had leveled all the classes to level 25. I was maybe the only player on PS4 in Europe who had done that back then. I looked into this game a few times since and didn't even bother trying it once I confirmed this issue STILL HADN'T BEEN FIXED. Recently I did decide to play longer terms again. I've noted the masses of additions such as new weapons, new monsters, a dosh vault system, weapon upgrade system etc etc. It is amazing then with all those upgrade that this SIMPLE ISSUE has been so recklessly ignored still.

I spent over £1000 in the in game store before I left. I have spent over £100 already since coming back. I left the game entirely because of this issue and will probably do so again if it is not fixed fairly soon. Gaming groups I am a member of who play several games and routinely spend LOTS in in game stores used to play this with me. Between us we probably spent over £50000 in the in game stored. We ALL left because of this issue. It is truly AMAZING that the developers are so OBSESSED with neglecting the game play experience of PS4 players that they still don't care about this.

I am aware that the game is predominately a PC game and PS4 gaming is kind of an afterthought. However I can confirm with certainty that this issue has annoyed hundreds of regular PS4 players and is probably itself limiting the market. We simply don't need to tolerate an annoying feature rather than simply playing another game. This issue not being fixed has probably therefore cost the developers over £1mil is income. It has been MASSIVE TURN OFF to LOTS OF PS4 PLAYERS.

For the majority of PC players who won't get this, it's simple:- On PS4 there is a complicated manual weapon switch system as well as a simple one button weapon cycle. Most mainstream PS4 players who want simple one button game play will prefer to use the cycle. On the cycle the knife is excluded and can't be included, and it can only be equipped by the complex system or otherwise it equips automatically if all other weapons including the 9mm are out of ammo. However on the cycle the 9mm is included can't be excluded, so weapons switching always cycles through it whenever it has ammo, which is NIGHTMARE to manage. Some players manually empty the ammo, which then makes it annoying to pick up ammo supplies or take them from Support class, basically making these two features useless to them. Some people try to get used to double cycling past the 9mm. What I am doing is limiting my game play experience to situations where I only have one main weapon and the 9mm as backup, such as using a heavy shotgun or melee Berserker class, or a spec where an upgraded dual 9mm is used as an alternative to other weapons. This serious limits game play and is getting too annoying for me to continue playing again. I can guarantee that EVERY single PS4 player of this game EVER who uses the one button switch has had annoying experiences with it, including it ruining the mission when the 9mm switches in by accident at the wrong time, or cycling through it causes the wrong weapon, etc.

I am making this sort of post as a good will gesture ONE MORE TIME in the hope the developers see sense and put in the small amount of work to solve this issue and make this game as fun as it should be for PS4 users. This is because without this issue it would be such a fun game and I don;t want to discard the possibility of that again. I've been playing it lots since I cam back and it's clear again why I liked the game so much.

The solution is so simple. The knife is coded as a backup weapons, so so would the 9mm be. It could work in exactly the same way so it equips when other weapons are out of ammo, either on a backup cycle with the knife, or by itself and then the knife if the 9mm runs out of ammo. Obviously it can still be manually selected through the complex weapon select if wanted. More complex coding could allow an option in the menu of even the in game trader portal to include the 9mm and/or knife in the main cycle, much like the option to 'show welder in inventory'. If just the simple solution then on balance imposing the 9mm in the main cycle on players that don't want it there is MUCH worse than imposing having to select it manually on players that do want it. Using the 9mm will normally be when in a simple situation in the mission anyway. This is somewhat similar to how there are a small amount of situation where the knife is wanted during main game play, mostly with Survivalist class to access melee weapon bonus. This has to be done manually and that can be annoying if you want it in the cycle, leading to possibly using a bought melee weapon just to avoid the annoyance. Some players have suggested making the 9mm able to be sold at the in game trader, and other possible solutions the ones I've suggested, before like me eventually giving up. Obviously in any case upgrading to dual 9mm would obviously include it in the main cycle if wanted. Another possible workaround then is to remove 9mm form main cycle and make the dual 9mm 0 weight also. There are so many simple ways of doing it. The best though for all play styles is to make simple options in menu and/or in game to select whether 9mm/knife are included in main cycle.

That's as clear and comprehensive explanations as possible. I hope the developers see sense this time.

J
 
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®omano

Grizzled Veteran
May 14, 2009
4,086
191
63
France
www.hellsoldiers.tk
This thread will achieve nothing, especially because they already said they might look at it but never did since YEARS NOW (probably because there is too much involved to 'fix' a non issue that would have lot of complexity where it is unneeded), and also because I'm sure when developers see 'threats' like 'me and my pal we'll stop giving you money, my magic calculation say it already cost you 1 million, fix my issue so you can have millions now', they laugh and close the page.

As I already said in other of these threads, there are actual real issues in the game ignored for years, you think they will add new things to the game (new feature involving much more than you would think to make it work in all cases) to please some people who can't push twice a button (literally, this is the issue, right?), when the never ending list of bugs/issues not fixed is constantly growing? no, lol. If they do no worry I'll be here to remind them the list of actual issues ignored for years.
 
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bwarp

Member
Aug 8, 2017
31
1
8
reply from a developer please? I've not really helped by spending another several hundred £ since I started playing again, but there is again a limited shelf life in me or any other PS4 users playing this game without this fix. The lack of a reply from a developer is alarming
 

s5yn3t

Grizzled Veteran
Sep 20, 2015
2,411
276
83
23
If you want a direct response from someone from the TWI team, you can join official kf2 discord channel (the invite can be found in the forum) and ask them there

They rarely reply in the forum these days.
 

Yoshiro

In Soviet Russia, Yoshiro is a cake
Staff member
Oct 10, 2005
12,698
3,716
113
As mentioned by another user, this suggestion has been raised intenraly as something some players would like to see. What would best help your cause would be to have more PS4 players comment here in the official forums about it. We try and address community Quality of Life improvements where we can, but we also have to make choices about which ones are targeted based on what the team feels will have the most impact for the most users.
 

TheWaywardKid

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 6, 2018
28
7
3
28
As mentioned by another user, this suggestion has been raised intenraly as something some players would like to see. What would best help your cause would be to have more PS4 players comment here in the official forums about it. We try and address community Quality of Life improvements where we can, but we also have to make choices about which ones are targeted based on what the team feels will have the most impact for the most users.
Sure! I'll be another player who comments in order to support this issue. (I've even made a thread about this once before.) I'd been avoiding commenting on this particular thread, though, as I felt that the way the issue was brought up was overly dramatic and a tad disrespectful to the developers. Although I respectfully understand that the OP is incredibly frustrated with the issue, spending additional money on the game does not mean that the issues that you find important are going to be prioritized (spending that additional money was entirely your choice). Clearly the devs care about the game, or else they wouldn't still be supporting it after all these years! ;)

Now, then... Of note: I primarily play on Xbox One (as that is where most of my friends are), but the annoying "Quick Switch" mechanic is the same there and annoys all of us on a regular basis. I'd also argue that the annoyance goes far deeper than simply "pushing a button twice", despite what ®omano said. It has definitely gotten us killed many many times. Just because we have sort have gotten used to it doesn't mean it isn't fun, messes us up occasionally, or impedes our desire to try to get better. The current "Quick Switch" forces the player to do unnecessary, regular mental gymnastics in order to quickly get to the desired weapon in a game where reflexes can mean life or death.

Example 1: Say you're fighting a boss or a lane has been overrun. (Mistakes happen.) Your squad is running about, backing up, etc.. You accidentally touch an ammo box. Your emptied 9mm is now back in rotation, immediately changing how many button presses it takes to get to any given weapon in your inventory. In the frantic chaos you attempt to get to the weapon that will save yourself or a teammate, but you make a mistake in your split-second mental math. You have the wrong weapon, and it is now too late to save the situation. Somebody goes down. Having one fewer player might also make things too unmanageable in the situation, thus resulting in a potential team wipe.
Note: This situation can also occur if you accidentally pick up a new weapon.

Example 2: Say you're using Survivalist, SWAT, or Commando. You want to make use of the 85% bonus knife damage (or the faster movement speed). This is currently quite cumbersome to do in the early waves, and potentially lethal in the tougher ones. Other perks usually want to avoid the knife, but these perks would benefit from easier access to it on controller.

Example 3:
You are running a weapon with a secondary ammo pool such as the HMTech-501, M16 M203, or any med-dart weapon. The primary ammo runs out, thus eliminating the weapon from your "Quick Switch" roster. Not only does your mental math have to change for all of your other weapons, but you can also no longer easily get to these weapons for their secondary purpose. Did you have 6 grenades left in the M16? Did you need a med-grenade or med-darts? Tough luck! You now have to hold "Y" and slowly select the weapon with your d-pad.

Is it absolutely necessary this issue be solved within 24 hours or else it's the end of the world? No. Would it be nice to have a better solution? Definitely.

The way C4 is now selected on console is actually a nice start (ignoring the fact that it makes no sense that it's uniquely separated from the current "Quick Switch" setup). Pressing "up" on the D-Pad usually selects the syringe, but when you have the C4 it now selects the C4. If you press "up" again, it gets to the syringe. Stacking items along D-Pad directions could potentially make for a nice solution!
For example: Syringe could be "up" once, with welder being twice. 9mm could be "down" once, with knife twice. Left and right could cycle left and right in a weapon rotation, or could be something like the following: Tier 1/2/3 on "left" and Tier 4/5 on "right". Or.... As you pick up weapons, they fill the D-pad directions clockwise until they eventually "stack". I don't know how you'd incorporate dropping weapons or flashlights, but the freed "Y" button could be used for one of those. Finally, you could consider allowing players to assign which weapons go to which D-Pad button. You could do this on the Trader screen; if you press a D-Pad direction while a weapon is highlighted on the Trader screen, it assigns the weapon to that direction.
For players who like the old method you could put a toggle in the menu. Regardless, unlike the current C4 I would think that weapons should stack onto the "outside" of old weapons instead of "inside" when it comes to the D-Pad. I also think you should have a menu toggle that would allow empty weapons to still be selectable even if you keep the current Quick Switch method!
 
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Yoshiro

In Soviet Russia, Yoshiro is a cake
Staff member
Oct 10, 2005
12,698
3,716
113
Sure! I'll be another player who comments in order to support this issue. (I've even made a thread about this once before.) I'd been avoiding commenting on this particular thread, though, as I felt that the way the issue was brought up was overly dramatic and a tad disrespectful to the developers. Although I respectfully understand that the OP is incredibly frustrated with the issue, spending additional money on the game does not mean that the issues that you find important are going to be prioritized (spending that additional money was entirely your choice). Clearly the devs care about the game, or else they wouldn't still be supporting it after all these years! ;)

Now, then... Of note: I primarily play on Xbox One (as that is where most of my friends are), but the annoying "Quick Switch" mechanic is the same there and annoys all of us on a regular basis. I'd also argue that the annoyance goes far deeper than simply "pushing a button twice", despite what ®omano said. It has definitely gotten us killed many many times. Just because we have sort have gotten used to it doesn't mean it isn't fun, messes us up occasionally, or impedes our desire to try to get better. The current "Quick Switch" forces the player to do unnecessary, regular mental gymnastics in order to quickly get to the desired weapon in a game where reflexes can mean life or death.

Example 1: Say you're fighting a boss or a lane has been overrun. (Mistakes happen.) Your squad is running about, backing up, etc.. You accidentally touch an ammo box. Your emptied 9mm is now back in rotation, immediately changing how many button presses it takes to get to any given weapon in your inventory. In the frantic chaos you attempt to get to the weapon that will save yourself or a teammate, but you make a mistake in your split-second mental math. You have the wrong weapon, and it is now too late to save the situation. Somebody goes down. Having one fewer player might also make things too unmanageable in the situation, thus resulting in a potential team wipe.
Note: This situation can also occur if you accidentally pick up a new weapon.

Example 2: Say you're using Survivalist, SWAT, or Commando. You want to make use of the 85% bonus knife damage (or the faster movement speed). This is currently quite cumbersome to do in the early waves, and potentially lethal in the tougher ones. Other perks usually want to avoid the knife, but these perks would benefit from easier access to it on controller.

Example 3: You are running a weapon with a secondary ammo pool such as the HMTech-501, M16 M203, or any med-dart weapon. The primary ammo runs out, thus eliminating the weapon from your "Quick Switch" roster. Not only does your mental math have to change for all of your other weapons, but you can also no longer easily get to these weapons for their secondary purpose. Did you have 6 grenades left in the M16? Did you need a med-grenade or med-darts? Tough luck! You now have to hold "Y" and slowly select the weapon with your d-pad.

Is it absolutely necessary this issue be solved within 24 hours or else it's the end of the world? No. Would it be nice to have a better solution? Definitely.

The way C4 is now selected on console is actually a nice start (ignoring the fact that it makes no sense that it's uniquely separated from the current "Quick Switch" setup). Pressing "up" on the D-Pad usually selects the syringe, but when you have the C4 it now selects the C4. If you press "up" again, it gets to the syringe. Stacking items along D-Pad directions could potentially make for a nice solution!
For example: Syringe could be "up" once, with welder being twice. 9mm could be "down" once, with knife twice. Left and right could cycle left and right in a weapon rotation, or could be something like the following: Tier 1/2/3 on "left" and Tier 4/5 on "right". Or.... As you pick up weapons, they fill the D-pad directions clockwise until they eventually "stack". I don't know how you'd incorporate dropping weapons or flashlights, but the freed "Y" button could be used for one of those. Finally, you could consider allowing players to assign which weapons go to which D-Pad button. You could do this on the Trader screen; if you press a D-Pad direction while a weapon is highlighted on the Trader screen, it assigns the weapon to that direction.
For players who like the old method you could put a toggle in the menu. Regardless, unlike the current C4 I would think that weapons should stack onto the "outside" of old weapons instead of "inside" when it comes to the D-Pad. I also think you should have a menu toggle that would allow empty weapons to still be selectable even if you keep the current Quick Switch method!
Thank you for your feedback with good examples.
 
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LunaticMaster

Active member
Jun 5, 2013
311
36
28
Finland
Yes please.
Developers please make the 9mm some kinda of holdout weapon. Maybe like you would equip 9mm by clicking L1 + R1 at the same time!
On PS4 it(9mm) gets in my way! In a bad way. Especially if i'm playing as the Berserker.
 

bwarp

Member
Aug 8, 2017
31
1
8
As mentioned by another user, this suggestion has been raised intenraly as something some players would like to see. What would best help your cause would be to have more PS4 players comment here in the official forums about it. We try and address community Quality of Life improvements where we can, but we also have to make choices about which ones are targeted based on what the team feels will have the most impact for the most users.
I think you've just about described your own problem. PS4 users aren't really that likely to join or post on internet forums in the same way PC users, so you are totally biased in your view. That's not being harsh, it's just true. This issue caused mroe than 80% of PS4 gamers to stop playing KF2 when it first became a PS Plus games a few years ago, FACT. PS4 users don;t go on forums to make suggestions like PC users, they simply MOVE ON TO ANOTHER GAME IMMEDIATELY. Like I did. However I liked this game so much that I did post, and I still check back and play occasionally, get too annoyed this issue is not fixed, then leave again. I'm sure I'm not the only one. Also the big post below mine is very sensible, however I disagree with one thing, for some users the issues might not be terminal, but for most PS4 regular gamers it is. They don't want to do any 'mental gymnastics' at all, they just want a fun, easy, not annoying gaming experience, and your implementation of the weapon select system does not give one. You will never get as many PS4 gamers coming onto your forums to tell you that, they just won't play your game. I spent over £1000 in your store again when I came back last year (you can check), it would have been another £1000 if this bug wasn't there, but it got too annoying so I left again, and another company got that £1000. I'll still keep checking and will try your game again when you make it playable for 99% of PS4 gamers, because now it isn't.
 

LunaticMaster

Active member
Jun 5, 2013
311
36
28
Finland
Thank you for your feedback with good examples.
So are we going to get some changes so that the 9mm pistol won't get in our way, when we need the bigger guns?
Maybe like a "special key" just for the 9mm on the PS4. Maybe press L1 + R1 at the same time.
 

Yoshiro

In Soviet Russia, Yoshiro is a cake
Staff member
Oct 10, 2005
12,698
3,716
113
It was something that was being looked into as a potential for one of our upcoming updates. It isn't currently scopped for summer as far as I am aware.
 
Last edited:

pop2222

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 1, 2018
7
0
1
24
This really isn't an issue. You can easily preload commands by tapping triangle which outright allows you to never switch to the 9mm. What I would like to see though is the overhead icons for the weapons when you swap to them for a brief moment.
 
Last edited:

®omano

Grizzled Veteran
May 14, 2009
4,086
191
63
France
www.hellsoldiers.tk
his issue caused mroe than 80% of PS4 gamers to stop playing KF2 when it first became a PS Plus games a few years ago, FACT.
I'll still keep checking and will try your game again when you make it playable for 99% of PS4 gamers
Dude you may have a point with PS4 users not being computer users, but the imaginary stats out of your butthole, followed by "FACT" are really not helping your case, especially when again you agitate your cash to the face of devs thinking that will change something.

 

bwarp

Member
Aug 8, 2017
31
1
8
It's good it's being looked into. It has not come in the summer update. I have noticed lots of returning players on PS4. Again with the lack of addressing PS4 issues v PC issues lots of these players will get frustrated with game and leave. There are MASSES of investments in upgrades to game, with not a single thing focusses on the PS4 specific issues. It's really not THAT hard to make a simple basic fix temporarily such as removing 9mm from main cycle and giving it exactly the same functionality as the knife, for example. It is not just this issue though, there are a number of PS4 specific bug and gameplay issues, which are FUNDEMENTALS. The 9mm is the main one, but not the only one. With SO much investment in upgrading the general PC games, and total NEGLECT of basic PS4 gameplay issues, it is clearly the message that you don't actually want or care about PS4 customers. I will use my same word again - FACT. In general, there is now another good update to a good game, and it's positive that fixing the PS4 user interface is being considered to be done soon, even if it hasn't happened this update.

It was something that was being looked into as a potential for one of our upcoming updates. It isn't currently scopped for summer as far as I am aware.
 

DrunkGerman

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 5, 2019
7
0
1
23
Not a PS4 player but on Xbox we've got the same issue, 9mm got me or a teammate killed more often than anything.

Simply having it behave like the knife where the only way to draw it is by holding Y (or whatever button it is on PS4) and then select it from the radial menu with the D-Pad would be so, soooo much better imo.

Additionally if people for some reason prefer it the way it is why not enable a toggle option in the gameplay tab where you can select if you want the 9mm to appear in your normal weapon cycle or behave like your knife.