Two primary weapons in HOS.

[PETERPANs]

Imagine gameplay with 2 primaries. No old style funs around you. Great idea.

 

[Devil_Inside]

Maybe a way around this is to implement a search body function. It's been talked about before in ROOST, when you get shot, you don't fling your ammo away.

You would need to crouch down, and manually pull ammo from a down opponent/comrade. And have it take a realistic amount of time making one a sitting duck (there's a reason there's a dead guy there). When the body despawns, so does their ammo / weapons.

So that's a penalty. This implemented with a realistic movement penalty, and perhaps even a "weapons familiarity" penalty - such as less recoil suppression of an SMG if you're use to a rifle.

Really nice ideas there!!

 

[Hasseli]

Maybe a way around this is to implement a search body function. It's been talked about before in ROOST, when you get shot, you don't fling your ammo away.

You would need to crouch down, and manually pull ammo from a down opponent/comrade. And have it take a realistic amount of time making one a sitting duck (there's a reason there's a dead guy there). When the body despawns, so does their ammo / weapons.

So that's a penalty. This implemented with a realistic movement penalty, and perhaps even a "weapons familiarity" penalty - such as less recoil suppression of an SMG if you're use to a rifle.

I liked this suggestion in the past, but wasn't the problem with the current physics (are they much different from the physics of UE3, I don't know) that they're clientside, and as such the body could basically be anywhere, so any serverside action would be impossible or at least very buggy?

All in all, I'd prefer body-searching for ammo even in current RO. The most annoying thing in picking up weapons is the ammo magically disappearing inside sandbags, trench walls, under the body (often unaccessable until the body despawns) etc.

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

Imagine gameplay with 2 primaries. No old style funs around you. Great idea.

If you say it like that, it just makes it worse....

 

[LemoN]

Imagine gameplay with 2 primaries. No old style funs around you. Great idea.

yss oldstyle quake gameplay is exactly what we want in RO:HoS!

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

snipers, mgs, ptrd, they've got their sidearm in a pistol....learn how to use them those whining about giving those classes an smg probably should't be using those classes in the first place because those players should not be engaging in CQC anyway and there is no reason why they would ever need a ppsh or mp40. you give snipers, ptrd or mgs an smg on top of their primary weapon and you will never see them actually doing their job. along those lines i hope that in HOS, these classes will receive a spotter that will have an smg for support in needed and binocs to help the mg/sniper/ptrd locate targets.

the only roles that would have any arguement for being allowed to carry a second primary weapon would be your grunt riflemen. now, i don't think a player should ever spawn with a second primary weapon because really, it's not that realistic and players should be given the default of what their role entitles. most people who say "in pictures i saw this" don't realize that a lot of pictures from ww2 were staged and those that weren't, where they show soldiers carrying two primary weapons, those were extremely rare. maybe for "Hereos" ok, but again, they wouldn't be able to carry a ton of ammo if they had two primary guns.

for being able to pick up a second primary weapon off a dead body, i'm kinda torn.....i mean yes it is possibly in real life, but how it would effect gameplay i dont know. i personally like how RO is right now and i'd just use my waepon or pick up another one when i could. if it was real life, i wouldn't lug around and extra weapon if i didnt really need it....i guess it would all just depend on the situation.

 

[20.PzGr.Fleck]

I think that's dumb. I'd written something significantly meaner but all my friends said not to post it because my account would be suspended. I don't care what photos you've seen, soldiers didn't carry more than one primary weapon. Have you ever humped anywhere with a full pack and two weapons? That's insane. You're insane. The end.

 

[[TW]DrGuppy]

Personally, I would like to see the ability to carry two primary weapons in the game. However, there must be realistic penalties that will make you think twice about doing it.

- Lower overall stamina
- Slightly slower movements overall (going prone, getting up, etc.)
- Slower sprint
- Less ammo carried for each weapon
- Slight increase in weapon sway (try aiming a rifle with a Ppsh hanging off your back)
- Slightly slower to enter cover (putting your back against a wall is a little harder with a weapon in the way)
- Slight increase in reload time
- Significant increase in weapon switching time
- Increased chance of jamming on any weapon that has been dropped and picked up (if implemented)
- etc.

If you give people enough realistic penalties they will not choose to carry two weapons often, but it will be an option for them to use.

For anyone who says this isn't realistic... look! Even kids can do it! (but how fast can they run? )

 

[LemoN]

well the problem with pictures that show soldiers with 2 weapons allways is that those guys, if the picture isnt staged, nearly allways go to a prepared position to reinforce it

when they arrive there they just put the second weapon against a wall

no soldier with enough brain would actually fight with 2 weapons

and regarding that pic, im 100% sure that it was just some fun from a few soldiers, mocking up kids with as many weapons as possible to present some nazi busters

 

[Atomskytten]

Clearly anyone who suggests two primary weapons have not been in the army...

The extra weight of a second primary weapon + ammunition and the fact that you have to have it slung over the shoulder in order to use the first primary weapon negates any benefit of having two weapons and actually decreases combat effectiveness several fold due to a more rapid loss of stamina and the general uncomfortableness inherent of carrying a slung weapon which severely limits movement, shooting and hand to hand combat.

Having two primary weapons is unrealistic and no soldier would choose to carry 7-10 kilograms of extra weaponry when it limits his ability to fight and thus lessens his probability survival.

 

[Devil_Inside]

no soldier with enough brain would actually fight with 2 weapons

Explain please!

 

[SchutzeSepp]

Explain please!

immagine playing with 2 keyboards, one slung on your back. and when the situation ingame requires the other board, then you need to switch and plug in the other one.
it's about that handy!

but really there are some points i find important:

-it would be crazy to pick something up in the heat of the battle, not knowing where it has been. and put your life in the hands of that thing.
switching to another weapon when not in a battle would make more sense, you could test or clean the weapon and get used to it.
-if implemented realistically, then it wouldn't be usefull in the type of combat you see in such a game. equipping yourself with a new or additional weapon takes several minutes. and then switching your weapon would not be ala COD where it takes 2 seconds, but rather take half a minute.
- there are too many different situations ingame to have only 1 way of taking or switching to a new weapon fit all the situations.
-you can want to just rapidly pick up a gun and fire it inmediately in emergency
-you can want to pick up a second weapon and store it's ammo on you
-you can want to switch your weapon while dropping your current gun in an emergency situation
-or you can want to switch your weapon, by taking one off your back, slinging the other one on your back, and picking back up the firts one to use.

the only way to make it not frustrating or overly complicated is ala COD, but that will just not fit this type of game.

 

[Ermac]

Clearly anyone who suggests two primary weapons have not been in the army...

The extra weight of a second primary weapon + ammunition and the fact that you have to have it slung over the shoulder in order to use the first primary weapon negates any benefit of having two weapons and actually decreases combat effectiveness several fold due to a more rapid loss of stamina and the general uncomfortableness inherent of carrying a slung weapon which severely limits movement, shooting and hand to hand combat.

Having two primary weapons is unrealistic and no soldier would choose to carry 7-10 kilograms of extra weaponry when it limits his ability to fight and thus lessens his probability survival.

I've heard of snipers in Iraq having a M4 carbine in addition to their sniper rifle.

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

immagine playing with 2 keyboards, one slung on your back. and when the situation ingame requires the other board, then you need to switch and plug in the other one.
it's about that handy!

but really there are some points i find important:

-it would be crazy to pick something up in the heat of the battle, not knowing where it has been. and put your life in the hands of that thing. switching to another weapon when not in a battle would make more sense, you could test or clean the weapon and get used to it.

-if implemented realistically, then it wouldn't be usefull in the type of combat you see in such a game. equipping yourself with a new or additional weapon takes several minutes. and then switching your weapon would not be ala COD where it takes 2 seconds, but rather take half a minute.
- there are too many different situations ingame to have only 1 way of taking or switching to a new weapon fit all the situations.
-you can want to just rapidly pick up a gun and fire it inmediately in emergency
-you can want to pick up a second weapon and store it's ammo on you
-you can want to switch your weapon while dropping your current gun in an emergency situation
-or you can want to switch your weapon, by taking one off your back, slinging the other one on your back, and picking back up the firts one to use.

the only way to make it not frustrating or overly complicated is ala COD, but that will just not fit this type of game.

Very good points have been brought up by several people, but the highlighted one I like the best.

I would imagine that any player picking up a gun off of the ground should have that weapon subject to a possible jamming penalty (possiblity of being dirty), whether the player is adding a second weapon or just switching weapons. This should be in addition to any other stamina, weapons switching penalties (etc) that would be involved.

 

[Devil_Inside]

-it would be crazy to pick something up in the heat of the battle, not knowing where it has been. and put your life in the hands of that thing. switching to another weapon when not in a battle would make more sense, you could test or clean the weapon and get used to it.

Picking up the gun from the body of your friend that got shot a second ago

P.S. And I'm ok with all the penalties that would be added, I just want to have the option to pick up a second gun in case you really need it. It's all about the things you CAN or CANT do in a game.

 

[SchutzeSepp]

Picking up the gun from the body of your friend that got shot a second ago

true, but when someone next to me gets shot, then the last thing i think of is to search his body. and personally 90% of the weapons i pick up in RO, are weapons i found accidentally, not knowing anything about how they got there. wich already is not quite a realistic behaviour

 

[LemoN]

I've heard of snipers in Iraq having a M4 carbine in addition to their sniper rifle.

thats a way different thing
and having a weapon in adition to another weapon is nothing special
but FIGHTING with 2 is just unrealistic

@ Devil Inside
seriously mate, we all know you would like to add this, but please, stop trying to convince everyone from your point of view

i think we have chewed throught this thread enough
some want it for the sake of fun (PeterPans)
some want it for the sake of realism (you)
some stated its not realistic at all and would basically destroy the gameplay (most ppl)

IF the devs decide to implement this (what i doubt, but we never know) then im sure they would find a way to make us all happy

regarding the CAN's and CAN'Ts
in real life you can do backflips, you can do handstands, you can take a dump whilst in the battlefield
do we all need this?

 

[Devil_Inside]

thats a way different thing
and having a weapon in adition to another weapon is nothing special
but FIGHTING with 2 is just unrealistic

Yea, so the second weapon they have is just to look cool , right?

If you're tired of reading my posts, why u just don't stop reading them and the entire thread?

I'm discussin it, I have a point and I want to understand why u think it's unrealistic and will ruin the gameplay? U're afraid that u'll get pwnt by the enemy team sniping u with the rifles and then get pwnt again in close combat? Or u're afraid that u'll get pwnt by your own team and never reach the tops of the scoreboard? What is the problem with people having a backup gun for emergency cases? They're not using both guns at the same time, u know?

 

[LemoN]

Yea, so the second weapon they have is just to look cool , right?

If you're tired of reading my posts, why u just don't stop reading them and the entire thread?

I'm discussin it, I have a point and I want to understand why u think it's unrealistic and will ruin the gameplay? U're afraid that u'll get pwnt by the enemy team sniping u with the rifles and then get pwnt again in close combat? Or u're afraid that u'll get pwnt by your own team and never reach the tops of the scoreboard? What is the problem with people having a backup gun for emergency cases? They're not using both guns at the same time, u know?

the problem is you think you have a point
but in fact you are wrong

the second weapon is, as allready stated a MILLION times, carried when NOT in combat, then laid down (a sniper doesnt really storm a position) and only used when in emergency

its a big difference if someone is just carrying 2 guns to a fight (into a prepared position) or actually fighting with them

small excample
MG gunner A moves to Foxhole A, he only has an MG, goes into the position and deploys his MG
as the attack order comes he moves out of his position
current RO system

MG gunner B moves to Foxhole B, he carries both an MG and a Kar98k, goes into the position and deploys his MG while still having his Kar98k slung on his back
as the attack order comes he moved out of hist position with both his MG and Kar98k
thats what you want, and wich noone would actually do

MG gunner C moves to Foxhole C, He carries both an MG and a Kar98k, goes into the position, unslings his Rifle and places it in a easy to reach spot, deploys his MG
as the attack order comes he wouldnt take the second weapon with himself as its too dangerous (realistic)


the only reasons to have 2 weapons is: not beeing in actual combat, moving to a prepared position, or riding in some sort of transportation


anyways, this will be my last post here, as you dont want to see the points of ppl anyways

PS: im not afraid to get owned in any way, and if you would have thought about the statements of ppl disliking your idea, you would have realized that those ppl all dont want to be able to multitask, as it just isnt realistic

you on the other hand just cant handle your one specific role and want to be able to cope with any situation

 

[Tiger2]

I think that as most people said, two primaries would just create too many problems.

Regardless of penalties everyone would be using them. Every player would grab a second weapon.

I also dont like suggestions to add penalties. Leave it to player's skill, rather than decide how accurate he is etc.