TWI, playable zeds needs to wait
- Thread starter Nocturnal7x
- Start date
While I don't truly disagree, I doubt it will take them very long to do. And even if it does, I think a new game mode will increase the lifespan of the game more , and it will be easier to wait for the next update as a result! At least that's how I picture it.
Like I said, everyone is talking about how survival is boring, how we need new stuff to keep enjoying the game, how it's good for longevity etc... It's "only" been a year since the early access launch, and everyone is already losing interest in survival. Why is everyone thinking this is normal ? I think the problem lies deeply in the core mechanics of the game. Too many people don't see how much work is still needed to make PvE as entertaining as it was in KF1... And I'm not talking about content here ! Just class/zeds balancing, teleporting zeds, permarage (ok, they're working on that), door welding, maps layout, melee combat, bullet speed...
Too all saying "we need more entertaining modes, it's great to see PvP, PvE is boring", we need to ask ourselves what's the real problem and why isn't TWI making a big deal out of this. Always saying everything's great without pointing out major flaws won't help them to make a better game.
Too all saying "we need more entertaining modes, it's great to see PvP, PvE is boring", we need to ask ourselves what's the real problem and why isn't TWI making a big deal out of this. Always saying everything's great without pointing out major flaws won't help them to make a better game.
KF 2 has always been planned with multi modes in mind (which is why there has been an option in the UI since launch for them). We settled on pursing the current mode we are working on VS Survival out of our holiday game jam from last December.
On a personal opinion note, new game modes adding new ways to play are how games can bring back both players who have grown away from a game as well as bring in fresh new players. Maybe PVP Survival isn't your ideal mode and that is fair. And will it come out the door perfect? Unlikely. But neither of those two opinions are a good reason to not have it.
This is also my personal opinion but I am of the stance that adding new perks/weapons to the existing survival will only go so far to increase or extend current players enjoyment of the game. Balance of the existing content I feel is far more important to those players - which is something we are continuing to work on and have two systems coming in this update that should go a long way in making it better both immediately and over time.
Please keep in mind that my personal opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of the company.
On a personal opinion note, new game modes adding new ways to play are how games can bring back both players who have grown away from a game as well as bring in fresh new players. Maybe PVP Survival isn't your ideal mode and that is fair. And will it come out the door perfect? Unlikely. But neither of those two opinions are a good reason to not have it.
This is also my personal opinion but I am of the stance that adding new perks/weapons to the existing survival will only go so far to increase or extend current players enjoyment of the game. Balance of the existing content I feel is far more important to those players - which is something we are continuing to work on and have two systems coming in this update that should go a long way in making it better both immediately and over time.
Please keep in mind that my personal opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of the company.
Well for what it's worth I totally agree, and was quietly waiting for another gamemode. I also just want to say I am glad you guys are willing to try stuff so different from the source modes and content!
Thanks for the response Yoshiro.
But I still feel like the opinion of the "anti-PvP" guys is misinterpreted. Even if I don't personally need/want PvP in KF2, I don't think it should never be implemented ! If one day I have 1000 hours in KF2, I might be happy to see some fun, other-than-PvE stuff. The real question is : is it a sensible move right now ? IMO, it isn't.
The problem lies in the fact that in its current state, I won't play KF2 more than I already have since EA launch. That's what grinds my gear... It feels like TWI is incline to try a lot of new stuff while the PvE part (the part I bought the game for, just saying) is not fun/balanced enough to get me hooked like the first game. It's like even you at TWI know that the PvE part alone is not good enough to get people to stay and play. And that's bad !
I know you didn't abandon PvE, at least I hope so, but it doesn't mean you're still going in the direction I was hoping for the game.
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Micro transactions can add revenue to a company to further develop a game and possibly speed certain areas up. Companies don't work out of sheer postive energy and happy thoughts. They work to provide a service for money. Maybe that micro transaction service helped add the new content along with the SS at about the same time, versus just getting SS.
At least Tripwire seems to respect their fans overall, unlike your larger companies like Blizzard that, until recently, had the mentality of we are Blizzard and you are going to eat our **** whether you like it or not!
I watched a small part of that video with the president of the company talking about how people still send him emails bashing him and his company for making a million dollars (which isn't accurate, he didn't make that much) and the first thing that popped into my head is "who cares even if he did?"
This company works hard to make great games, despite not having 70 programmers on one project (along with all the other talent groups needed to make a good game). People need to stop acting like making money is a crime. Why don't you stop accepting pay for your job and starting working off of people telling you that you have done a good job and see how far it gets you.
Maybe they could use those $30 I gave them to access the EA, under the impression that they were making a KF1 sequel. Not a CS:GO/L4D/TF2 Hats and Gun Skins simulator.
definitely learned my lesson about TWI on this game.
100% of the people who bought KF 2 bought it for PVE. There was no mention of PVP on the store page, only PVE.
People want modes like objective mode, endless wave mode, story mode for PVE.
Lets not forget what TWI owes to the people funding this development. All the things on the store page.
During the live stream you said PVP was a mod made in "free time". Now its an official mode, not just a mod for the workshop. If it was done in "free time", now it will require development, ,testing, debugging, balancing.
I don't think anyone would care if a mod was thrown into workshop for those who want it to go and get it. Seems like this is a shiny object for distraction purposes. It will distract customers from how far off TWI is from delivering on promises. It will distract the development team even more as scope creep begins to cripple KF 2 development.
People are calling for all 10 perks, more guns, more bosses, more types of zeds ( not just clot variants you can hardly tell apart) and modes that are PVE as well fixing the issues with balancing, teleportation, FP rage mechanics, perma rage, welding being useless, bugs and fixes. The features request sub forum, Steam forum and TWI forum are filled with threads calling for these items.
What do we get? PVP mod ( thats apparently now a mode), game conductor, zedconomy. None of which has been asked for and all of which have caused division in the community.
1) There are many modes that are wanted by various parts of the KF community. Some are new modes, some are modes that existed in KF 1. We did actually make a PVP mode for KF 1 that we never released as we did not feel at the time it was coming together at that time as we hoped and we always planned to revisit it.
We have plans and prototypes for several other modes but nothing is far enough along that we are prepared to talk about it. Most likely any of those that we ship will come post official launch.
2) You nor anybody else is funding KF 2 development with the purchase of KF 2. Sales of KF 1 and Red Orchestra 2 funded Killing Floor 2. Funds from KF 2 sales go towards the next project, funds from zedconomy/trading floor are targeted towards post launch support.
3) The PVP mod in the live steam is a mod and now available on the Workshop. But one of the main reasons we did our game jam is one we share with other companies that do them. They help promote internal ideas and prototypes that we can potentially bring forward.
4) Balance is our number one concern with the existing Survival mode and we continue to bring out the planned content for it as fast as we able. The Game Conductor is all about balance and making the game more consistently fun for players as is the Live Update system going into the next build.
I know I have stated this before and it seems like you either don't believe me or choose to disregard it but our systems programmers who work on our analytics, tools and the zedconomy do not take away from our gameplay programming ability as they are not gameplay programmers. And even among gameplay programmers there are specialties and programmers better suited to certain aspects such as weapons programming vs gametype development and so on.
Our production team works hard to make sure we have little downtime in our schedule across any department so they always have something in front of them to work on and towards. Some times unexpected things happen in our pipeline such as having to go back and rework items due to player feedback (which we underestimated in our original schedule) or personnel loss and having to find and train a replacement (this is a normal part of most industries and we trend far below the average of churn of the games industry but it still hits us and has hit us more as we have grown).
Gee, you want TWI to take thousands of differing and conflicting opinions from a wide range of skill that comprises the playerbase, and somehow churn out a decision based on it all? Most of the community can't be trusted to handle a game's balance because most of it is knee-jerk hooting and ape-like pointing to some temporary stimulus they don't fully understand.
TWI is totally in the right to be very cautious and conservative when it comes to balancing; such an aspect of a game requires fine tuning and listening to the most well-informed opinions.
I mean, if you wanna get technical, 100% of the people who bought KF2 bought it for the exact content that they received on the day that they bought it.
PVE was the only option at the time. Then objective mode released yeeeears later
I mean, if you wanna get technical, 100% of the people who bought KF2 bought it for the exact content that they received on the day that they bought it.
Exactly this. People keep forgetting what obligation a company has in early access. Tripwire is stepping up and treating it as if it was a fully polished game - something that is not required, but much appreciated in my eyes and my friends eyes.
Maybe the extra funds allowed them to initiate plans for including additional wishlist stuff. I dont know it seems all a bit to chaotic for my tiny brain...
KF 2 isn't a kickstarted title, and did not go out seeking funding to bring it to completion. That was all budgeted for well ahead of time. The reason we chose early access was to iterate before launch.
Most studios who plan well financially fund their next project with the proceeds from the current project or they go out of business.
We use things like the expansion Rising Storm to RO 2 and the ZedConomy for KF 2 to plan and produce additional content and work for the current title outside the original scope of the project.