TWI is this how you envisioned RO2? (serious question)

[howzcat]

@ Grain Elevator last night

i almost exclusively play bolt action, but last night there weren't any SL's so i join as russian sl.
Germans are attacking A, so i go in the concrete building and try to provide a mobile spawn point. I get 22 kills, 3 deaths, and a lot of russians spawn by me, we win, they don't even manage to hold A.

before that, i get killed by MKB from 4 meters, even though i shoot him in the chest he kills me - i RAGE and say something like mkb is for f... - he laughs and states that he's first on the scoreboard while i'm middle, therefore i must suck lol btw, he had 35 kills and a ton more points than i did.

so every player with mkb starts singing praises to their own skill and my lack of it, even though i don't mention them, because they react with a hive mind, always having to defend their...erm..life choices

long story short, we have a couple of headless-chicken-type of player, running around with op weapons, not even using crouch or cover and scoring big time, whilst a squad leader who only dies 3 times, killing 22 and providing spawn for his mates is middle board (second most kills in team though)?

TWI, is this the kind of player you wanted to attract? k/d, unlocks, kiddies?
just have an arcade mode and let them bind a key to "WIN".

/rage

p.s. even though i dont play it, SL needs incentive to NOT die...most people i know just pick SL for ppsh, and play it as assault (not even using smoke).. as it is i see more teamwork in pub TF2 than RO2 :|

 

[Vyllis]

Run and gun with unlocks, more you level up more you are able to do it.

 

[The Beast (nl)]

You do understand the game / tactic.

I want to play together with you. Your ideas are mine.

Yesterday i kept shouting te keep A. But i could better scream for
holding Z or whatever they don`t listen.

 

[howzcat]

Run and gun with unlocks, more you level up more you are able to do it.

i pre-ordered deluxe edition (for beta) because this was supposed to be a slightly more realistic shooter..if i want to run and gun i'll go play bf3 or quakelive, which is free.

 

[howzcat]

You do understand the game / tactic.

I want to play together with you. Your ideas are mine.

Yesterday i kept shouting te keep A. But i could better scream for
holding Z or whatever they don`t listen.

cool! add me we'll get some games going actually, i don't know if i can advertise (correct this mods if i can't) but we're needing players in iron-crescendo.net

 

[PrivateBurke]

TWI, is this the kind of player you wanted to attract? k/d, unlocks, kiddies?
just have and arcade mode and let them bind a key to "WIN".

/rage

p.s. even though i dont play it, SL needs incentive to NOT die...most people i know just pick SL for ppsh, and play it as assault (not even using smoke)..

You seem to not understand the game. A lot of people don't seem to understand the dynamics of the game. Here is the battle lines by class:

Frontline
Assault
Engineer
Elite Rifleman
Squad Leader
Machine Gunner
Rifleman
Commander
Anti-Tank
Marksman
Rear

The experience you encountered was not the games fault or TWI. It was your team breaking down in the most basic senses.

If you think this game is run and gunning you haven't played a server where the the team is in good unison. You've only been on teams where your just frankly getting rocked. I see this a lot - It will go away in time when people learn their roles. If an MKB got 4 meters from your rifleman either you were in the wrong place or you had no defenses.

 

[howzcat]

You seem to not understand the game. A lot of people don't seem to understand the dynamics of the game. Here is the battle lines by class:

Frontline
Assault
Engineer
Elite Rifleman
Squad Leader
Machine Gunner
Rifleman
Commander
Anti-Tank
Marksman
Rear

The experience you encountered was not the games fault or TWI. It was your team breaking down in the most basic senses.

If you think this game is run and gunning you haven't played a server where the the team is in good unison. You've only been on teams where your just frankly getting rocked. I see this a lot - It will go away in time when people learn their roles. If an MKB got 4 meters from your rifleman either you were in the wrong place or you had no defenses.

i get what you're saying, but it doesn't seem to be related at all. Case in point, our team won. So we were better organized than they were. Still, everyone who had an mkb, even on the losing team had more than triple kills than 80% of our players. plus, it's the mentality, first and foremost, that i'm "complaining", and this is twi's design decision..sure, i get lots of kills, die a lot, but since i have such an op weapon i'll just bind shift to always on, run around and destroy everything that moves (teammates included, ever notice that teamkilling adds you one kill? actually, a couple of days ago i was messing around with my friends, i was splitting the first place on scoreboard with a mate, and just for fun i tk'ed him, and took first place..wise design decision btw).

it just totally destroys any sense of immersion. you have a feeling you did right by your team. scoreboard doesn't show it. no one cares. "butthurt noob" rants ensue when you point it out. all that ro2 is now is a "xp grind factory" - let me get as much kills as i can, so i can unlock my tactical nuke and get my k/d ratio up, even though i don't contribute to or even play as a team.

my name is chuck norris, and all of stalingrad will be crushed under my heel.

 

[PrivateBurke]

i get what you're saying, but it doesn't seem to be related at all. Case in point, our team won. So we were better organized than they were. Still, everyone who had an mkb, even on the losing team had more than triple kills than 80% of our players. plus, it's the mentality, first and foremost, that i'm "complaining", and this is twi's design decision..sure, i get lots of kills, die a lot, but since i have such an op weapon i'll just bind shift to always on, run around and destroy everything that moves (teammates included, ever notice that teamkilling adds you one kill? actually, a couple of days ago i was messing around with my friends, i was splitting the first place on scoreboard with a mate, and just for fun i tk'ed him, and took first place..wise design decision btw).

it just totally destroys any sense of immersion. you have a feeling you did right by your team. scoreboard doesn't show it. no one cares. "butthurt noob" rants ensue when you point it out. all that ro2 is now is a "xp grind factory" - let me get as much kills as i can, so i can unlock my tactical nuke and get my k/d ratio up, even though i don't contribute to or even play as a team.

my name is chuck norris, and all of stalingrad will be crushed under my heel.

I'm sorry I'm not ragging on you but you seem to be concerned with the kill death ratio when you are explicitly calling those people out. Your team won this example game but you feel jilted from the high kill counts on the other team?

It seems as if the game is what TWI wanted. A team of rambos can still lose a match to a team of sophisticated players sticking to the objectives and not concerning themselves with wandering for the next kill.

I understand what you are talking about but I see that example outcome more. The German teams even more so lately. They constantly try to just kill and kill but in doing so create false battle lines that are far from the objectives themselves - thus, losing the match. As time progress and the community shaves down and get's smarter you'll be seeing people actually fight for the objectives rather then the kill and I think then you'll see more battles in which you are looking for.

As for now stick to the objectives and collect those oh so sweet "In Objective +3's" (Glorious incentive by the way)

 

[howzcat]

true. the "+3 in objective.." credit where credit's due..it's a win.

imho the whole ranking/unlock should have never made it in ro2, but it's here, so..

this was just an old man's rant, you see? if i really get going it hits much deeper...this cod/bf3/cs k/d mentality i was complaining about is, at least partially, twi's fault..it was a design decision made to bring the more mainstream player into the game, and while it may have served it's purpose (copies sold) it no longer does, as it alienates the players who will stick to the game for years to come (dwindling player base anyone?).

-historically accurate or not, some weapons have no business being in the game (mkb, avt..there's 3 types of difficulty levels, make one that pleases every type of crowd).

-recoil is non-existent (again, even if more accurate - i've read the whole professional soldier explanation from twi - just allows this rambo type gameplay (firefight was supposed to be the place for this maybe?)

-not having your weapon rested, having just run 200m...none of this things matters in weapon sway!

-too many auto and semi-auto weapons in game

-with a rifle, at less then 20 meters, you're always dead. period. even if i shoot him first, once or twice, he just turns around and full auto fires with extreme accuracy. i've even seen ppsh reload, kill me, then proceed to bleed out. While it's a realistic mechanic that your dying instinct is to pull the trigger and point at the bad man, your accuracy should be...well, very limited to say the least. A guy that knows he's bleeding to dead, having the cool head to reload and headshoot you from 15 meters? LOL

-bandaging takes 2 seconds? come on...not even a surgeon on a fully equipped hospital would stop a gun shot wound from bleeding that fast. It's no different from the "rest behind cover" cod model, except you only get to do it twice.

-shot to the chest with bolt rifle, from 10, 20 meters? surely insta-death. (at least out of combat).

i could go on..and before the fanboy'ism kicks in, i'm a fanboy myself lol if we say such things it's because we love the game and want to see it thrive..otherwise i'd just have left by now, like every other game

 

[Nikita]

Tactics notwithstanding, an Mkb user really doesn't have the right to crow about anything. That gun is easy to hipshoot, has little sway or recoil even when completely unleveled, has no melee range disadvantage even compared to the MN 91/30 once the bayonet is unlocked, penetrates as well as a longer rifle, delivers superior rate of fire over the MP40, has three times the ammunition capacity of a G41 or SVT-40, shift-zooms as well as a rifle, and suppresses like a machine gun.

I'd feel better if he'd unlocked it after playing for months to level up to Hero Assault. Seeing as he probably just paid the extra cash for the DDE, however...

 

[The Beast (nl)]

i get what you're saying, but it doesn't seem to be related at all. Case in point, our team won. So we were better organized than they were. Still, everyone who had an mkb, even on the losing team had more than triple kills than 80% of our players. plus, it's the mentality, first and foremost, that i'm "complaining", and this is twi's design decision..sure, i get lots of kills, die a lot, but since i have such an op weapon i'll just bind shift to always on, run around and destroy everything that moves (teammates included, ever notice that teamkilling adds you one kill? actually, a couple of days ago i was messing around with my friends, i was splitting the first place on scoreboard with a mate, and just for fun i tk'ed him, and took first place..wise design decision btw).

it just totally destroys any sense of immersion. you have a feeling you did right by your team. scoreboard doesn't show it. no one cares. "butthurt noob" rants ensue when you point it out. all that ro2 is now is a "xp grind factory" - let me get as much kills as i can, so i can unlock my tactical nuke and get my k/d ratio up, even though i don't contribute to or even play as a team.

my name is chuck norris, and all of stalingrad will be crushed under my heel.

That`s the right spirit !

I remember you chuck norris.

 

[inigomontoya]

Well, the man with the mkb was an assault class and was assaulting. Perhaps it's your play style? When I'm a rifleman I tend to act like it. I've had no problems slaying folks that choose the mkb as their assault class weapon as rifleman because I act accordingly. In very close quarters it stands to reason that as a rifleman you will lose to any capable assault class player more often than not.

 

[Verluste]

@ Grain Elevator last night

i almost exclusively play bolt action, but last night there weren't any SL's so i join as russian sl.
Germans are attacking A, so i go in the concrete building and try to provide a mobile spawn point. I get 22 kills, 3 deaths, and a lot of russians spawn by me, we win, they don't even manage to hold A.

before that, i get killed by MKB from 4 meters, even though i shoot him in the chest he kills me - i RAGE and say something like mkb is for f... - he laughs and states that he's first on the scoreboard while i'm middle, therefore i must suck lol btw, he had 35 kills and a ton more points than i did.

so every player with mkb starts singing praises to their own skill and my lack of it, even though i don't mention them, because they react with a hive mind, always having to defend their...erm..life choices

long story short, we have a couple of headless-chicken-type of player, running around with op weapons, not even using crouch or cover and scoring big time, whilst a squad leader who only dies 3 times, killing 22 and providing spawn for his mates is middle board (second most kills in team though)?

TWI, is this the kind of player you wanted to attract? k/d, unlocks, kiddies?
just have an arcade mode and let them bind a key to "WIN".

/rage

p.s. even though i dont play it, SL needs incentive to NOT die...most people i know just pick SL for ppsh, and play it as assault (not even using smoke).. as it is i see more teamwork in pub TF2 than RO2 :|

You do you get on the middle of the scoreboard with such efficiency? You stay in capzone I presume, defend it, make kills fromout of it. You have to be in the top 3 at least. That is where I always am when I play the game as intended.

 

[Verluste]

@ Grain Elevator last night

i almost exclusively play bolt action, but last night there weren't any SL's so i join as russian sl.
Germans are attacking A, so i go in the concrete building and try to provide a mobile spawn point. I get 22 kills, 3 deaths, and a lot of russians spawn by me, we win, they don't even manage to hold A.

before that, i get killed by MKB from 4 meters, even though i shoot him in the chest he kills me - i RAGE and say something like mkb is for f... - he laughs and states that he's first on the scoreboard while i'm middle, therefore i must suck lol btw, he had 35 kills and a ton more points than i did.

so every player with mkb starts singing praises to their own skill and my lack of it, even though i don't mention them, because they react with a hive mind, always having to defend their...erm..life choices

long story short, we have a couple of headless-chicken-type of player, running around with op weapons, not even using crouch or cover and scoring big time, whilst a squad leader who only dies 3 times, killing 22 and providing spawn for his mates is middle board (second most kills in team though)?

TWI, is this the kind of player you wanted to attract? k/d, unlocks, kiddies?
just have an arcade mode and let them bind a key to "WIN".

/rage

p.s. even though i dont play it, SL needs incentive to NOT die...most people i know just pick SL for ppsh, and play it as assault (not even using smoke).. as it is i see more teamwork in pub TF2 than RO2 :|

-edit-, re-reply

 

[Mekhazzio]

The assault guy was assaulting the objective and doing damage there while attempting to capture it, why shouldn't he be rewarded for it? This is an especially strange complaint coming from someone who clearly wasn't fighting in the cap zone, as that's the only way you can be near the top in kills and nowhere near the top in points. The A point in Grain Elevator is huge, it's actually pretty hard to fight anywhere near there as a Russian and not be getting cap zone credit for most of what you do. From that, the argument could be made that the headless chicken was, in fact, the better team player, as he was at least undeniably contributing directly to his team's efforts to capture the point, while you were, at best, helping hold down a flank. That's a useful thing to do, sure, but it's not as useful as directly contesting the point.

I do like the implications about "kiddies focused on k/d ratio" coming from someone who actually counts out their own deaths themselves. That's some quality denial right there.

 

[DesiQ]

before that, i get killed by MKB from 4 meters, even though i shoot him in the chest he kills me - i RAGE and say something like mkb is for f...

Why are you blaming the gun? It's quite obviously the server/lag/latency/netcode that's causing the close range hitreg bug.

 

[MarioBava]

All the kills count in this post puzzles me because you don't mention team points. At all. Which is what you should really be concerned about, especially as a squad leader who counts more toward objective captures than a regular grunt. If you were A) in the middle of the board and B) second in kills and C) your team won, then that means:

You weren't earning very many team points compared to your teammates.

So keep in mind it is harder to get to the top of a scoreboard on a team where a lot of people are earning team points, that is to say a team like the one you were on that was succeeding at all the team objectives.

On the other hand if that Mkb guy is at the top of the scoreboard with 35 kills and his team lost and could not even take and hold their first objective, that probably means something too, though there could be more to it. Maybe his team was just not working together and kills meant more in the scoreboard rank than it would on a successful team. On the other hand maybe he was actually scoring a lot of team points. Can't be sure on that one, though if attitude is any measure...

EDIT: I forgot to mention on the positive side that fewer deaths is partly good for SL, because you will "feed" team points to those around you who kill enemies ("protect squad leader"). But on the other hand there's a drawback if it means you didn't spend any time in objectives (ie dangerous zones), that's bad.

 

[luciferintears]

If you think this game is run and gunning you haven't played a server where the the team is in good unison.

this doesnt make sense.

if you do just fine without any teamwork, what is your incentive in going through the trouble to strategize?

thats the issue here. there is no reason to play as a team. there is no reason to bother ordering your machine gunner to provide suppressive fire. there is no reason to bother flanking the enemy. etc etc

 

[DesiQ]

there is no reason to play as a team. there is no reason to bother ordering your machine gunner to provide suppressive fire. there is no reason to bother flanking the enemy. etc etc

Could the reason be because things go much smoother and easier?

It may take you the entire round to cap everything in Commissar's and win, or you may get ground down and lose. But by employing teamplay we (as Russians) have been able to do it within four or five minutes. Same thing for Barracks.

But here's the thing: quick rounds aren't very good for farming points.

 

[Squad Leader]

But here's the thing: quick rounds aren't very good for farming points.

Bravo! That's the crux of the situation.

People on public servers care more about leveling than they do winning. If you want to play "Army," you have to form your own group with people you know. I do understand you can still win by just "running and gunning" and staying in cap, though. But, to me, it's not as fun or realistic. Another thing to realize also, on the pubs, is you could be playing with someones little sister. More plainly, someone who doesn't know the first thing about small unit tactics.