Tripwire, is your stock content sacred?

[Athena]

I rarely post in this section, anyways I had this idea when I saw the AHZ vehicule pack.

Say, for example, if somebody comes up with a quality uniform pack or texture does it have a chance to make it official? Like a skinpack for Stalingradkessel to represent the fact the german units in that scenario are disbanded and don't all have the same uniforms? like one dude with snowpants, another one with with a camo shirt, etc? or like the uniforms used on KriegStadt?

My question is, if custom content is considered good enough can it make it to the stock maps (pre-mapping contest)? So it's not this simplified yellow vs blue thing.

 

[LogisticEarth]

Unfortunately it seems like, as the support cycle winds down for RO, they're not going to implement something like this. Since a server can run mods to address this issue, it's low priority for the Devs.

 

[[TW]Wilsonam]

Errr... if I understand it right, you're asking if we'd make a skinpack "official" in some way?

 

[Sigurd]

Much more important question: Will we see another patch or is RO considered finished?

 

[LogisticEarth]

^^^Good luck geting a definitive answer on that one buddy.

Errr... if I understand it right, you're asking if we'd make a skinpack "official" in some way?

I think they're asing about someone making a skinpack for specific maps, like we see in Kriegstadt or Zhitomir Revenge, and applying them to the stock maps that are included in everyone's copy of the game. Instead of just including them on a server-by-server basis. Distributing modded skins in an official update rather than just peicemeal, so as to improve the overal quality of the game for everyone with minimal effort to TWI.

Personally, I'd love to see this for a few of the skins that are out there, EH's MG tracers, and a few other things. I know a large, large number of players are hoping for something like this in the anitcipated "final" patch before 2007 is out.

 

[1 3 3]

maybe it can be made as an optional download to apply to the game. kinda like how HL had the "HD pack" you could get.

 

[Athena]

I think they're asing about someone making a skinpack for specific maps, like we see in Kriegstadt or Zhitomir Revenge, and applying them to the stock maps that are included in everyone's copy of the game. Instead of just including them on a server-by-server basis. Distributing modded skins in an official update rather than just peicemeal, so as to improve the overal quality of the game for everyone with minimal effort to TWI.

Exactly! That's the answer to Wilsonam's question.

The main point is if somebody has done or does realistic quality uniform work, it could become official and be included in the stock RO maps (pre-mapping contest) to better them and with the benefit of everybody having it instead of one server out of 20 having it.

Well, LogisticEarth pretty much said it all in what I quoted.

 

[worluk]

without the proper models to go with them i would really hate to see plain reskins in some "official" pack...
In my eyes, well, its patchwork. And it for sure wouldnt go with the overall quality of ROs models/skins.

 

[TT33]

number of players are hoping for something like this in the anitcipated "final" patch before 2007 is out.

I feel a little like Im in the 1st grade again and Im telling all the other kids theres no such thing as Santa Claus.

What patch? As of my knowledge TW released no word on a "final patch" being there somewhere under 50 days left for support to end I find it extremely doubtful and foolishly optimistic to expect one.

 

[LogisticEarth]

I feel a little like Im in the 1st grade again and Im telling all the other kids theres no such thing as Santa Claus.

What patch? As of my knowledge TW released no word on a "final patch" being there somewhere under 50 days left for support to end I find it extremely doubtful and foolishly optimistic to expect one.

Ha, that's why I said "hoping" and "anticipated", not "confirmed". In my experience stuff like that is a long shot. But man if there was just a *bit* more polish on the game it would be wonderful, and a fitting goodbye given the great support RO has had.

If they DON'T release a patch, I think we should organize the admins of popular servers and try and make some kind of standardized mod-pack that they'll run...but that's probably an even greater longshot than a final patch.

 

[EvilHobo]

I wouldn't mind contributing the stuff that I've made. As for the uniforms, if they became Steam-distributed stock content, I could always make them the 2048x2048 resolution as opposed to 1024x1024 (smaller file size for a server download, that sort of thing). I'd probably have to make the SS uniforms in to Heer uniforms but that is as simple as hiding or showing a layer.

 

[Slyk]

I said something in another thread the other day that goes along with this... I really doubt TWI wants to go to the legal hassel of acquiring more "content". It's just not worth it..the trouble for all the paperwork, the time to beta test and integrate etc. I would also think an update is extremely unlikely. For the next year or more it is up to the community to keep content fresh.

 

[Zetsumei]

what i would like for tripwire to include is those files of maps that are needed in the serverpackages at least.

So that people don't have to download custom content when joining a stock map if that server got some maps running custom skins.

 

[SiC-Disaster]

Well you never know, didnt they recently made a thread about what we would like to see improved about MG's etc?
Could be an indicator, would be great too. Maybe their just holding their mouths shut untill christmas time comes around? ^^

 

[Solo4114]

I said something in another thread the other day that goes along with this... I really doubt TWI wants to go to the legal hassel of acquiring more "content". It's just not worth it..the trouble for all the paperwork, the time to beta test and integrate etc. I would also think an update is extremely unlikely. For the next year or more it is up to the community to keep content fresh.

Slyk's right here and likely speaks from personal experience (didn't you guys make the BT-7 and 45mm AT gun they incorporated?). Even though you can make a legal argument that, as mods of the game and therefore derivative works under copyright law, TWI owns the rights to any mod content, it's still a lot easier to have a signed license in place where both parties agree instead of fighting a court battle just so you can yoink some content.

That means contracts, lawyers reviewing them for (at the low end) $150 an hour, negotiations while terminology is tweaked, etc. In short, a big pain in the a$$ for all involved.


A better option is a community-created content pack that servers can choose to run and players can choose to download themselves. You know, like, the OLD way we used to get custom content.

 

[Aeneas2020]

actually TWI doesn't own all mod content at all...they only own what the mod uses or builds on from the original RO content (basically meaning they have control of any new content running on that game). If for example you created a model gun for RO, animated, textured it etc and got it working in game. you could later transfer it to another game...but only the parts you created yourself (so just the model, texture and anims) nothing from the game itself.

 

[Slyk]

You don't want to get into the legal 'this and that' conversation. Trust me. I'm lucky Ramm even speaks to me. If anyone is really curious, Google copyright, work for hire, and such. There is more than enough information out there. Bottom line is that at this stage in the game's life, it really doesn't seem like a worthwhile business move for TWI. They certainly have moved on to the next development project and knowing what is involved in custom content conversion/incorporation, it is much better to let the community create, proof, and use content.

 

[BlackLabel]

..and that makes total sense. They allready incorporated "custom" stuff into the final product using the "community content patch". Besides that, thats alot more than i ever see a company doing to their product to expand the lifecycle.

Besides..iam all for another patch fixing the small anyoing issues. Maybe they make enough money with the future product ( wixh will hopefully NOT BE A ****ING MODERN COMBAT game ) to come back and support and iron out RO.

 

[REZ]

hopefully NOT BE A ****ING MODERN COMBAT game

Amen.

 

[Solo4114]

actually TWI doesn't own all mod content at all...they only own what the mod uses or builds on from the original RO content (basically meaning they have control of any new content running on that game). If for example you created a model gun for RO, animated, textured it etc and got it working in game. you could later transfer it to another game...but only the parts you created yourself (so just the model, texture and anims) nothing from the game itself.

It's a lot more complicated than that in terms of copyright law, actually.

Short version: The individual bits and pieces that make up a mod MAY be copyrightable to the mod-creator (IE: I make a model of the BT-7 in 3DSMax -- that's my work), but to the extent that those things are set up to work in the game engine (IE: the mod itself), that's a "derivative work." You can probably lay claim to whatever individual bits and pieces of content you create OUTSIDE the mod, but the actual coding to make it run within the game engine (and thus the mod itself) is a "derivative work."


Note that "derivative work" has a specific legal meaning in the context of the Copyright Act. "Works for hire" have additional complications.




Basically, the long and short of it is that it's a big legal pain in the butt to try to get custom content "officially" incorporated into a game. It can be done, sure, but it either requires specific language in the EULA, or it requires a separate contract. And sometimes just to be on the safe side, you want that separate contract anyway.

Besides, like I said, you don't really NEED an "official" pack of uniforms and such. The great thing about UE games is that you can create your OWN community packs and distribute those.