tracers

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[TW]DrGuppy

Tripwire Interactive Staff
Nov 22, 2005
1,039
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Atlanta, Georgia
Sure you might be right but keep in mind that that RO video is running at about 24 FPS so the tracers appear to be slower and longer than how they actually appear in-game.

On a side note that other video clearly illustrates how close the RO tracer bounce compares to real life. Good work Devs. :cool:
 

Mormegil

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
4,178
574
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Nargothrond
I don't really trust video to show me what tracers really look like in real life. As a photographer, I know how exposure settings can make a huge difference in how a fast moving bright object looks.


If I take a photo of a tracer round with a 1/2 second exposure, it will look like a laser going from the gun out hundreds of meters. With a setting of 1/8000 of a second, it would like like a 4cm long trail (based on a muzzle velocity of 350 m/s).

For example, in these two photos I took, this is the exact same waterfall taken less than a mnute apart.

37767483_9f0dbcb4f8.jpg

1/250 sec
37767552_7bb797f041.jpg

1/5 sec

You have to be careful when trusting a camera.
 

sharpshooterklj

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 22, 2006
949
1
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Yep, all depends on how the human eye really sees it. Maybe the in-game tracers represent how they would look to your actual eye better than a video or picture. Nice camera work on the waterfall too.
 

Jack

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 24, 2005
752
0
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lol you guys kinda are defeated by your own argument.


In other words, if exposure times on cameras can make thinks look even longer, then wouldn't that be all the more proof that tracers are too long in game?
 

Recce

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 31, 2006
605
0
0
Jack said:
lol you guys kinda are defeated by your own argument.


In other words, if exposure times on cameras can make thinks look even longer, then wouldn't that be all the more proof that tracers are too long in game?

Not really. Because while your retina and / or brain operates at a more or less constant speed, you also have to take into effect the amount of light that enters the eye. This will depend on how close you are to the tracer, and the ambient light conditions, which will effect how widely open your iris is. The brighter the target object, the more light enters the eye, and so longer the redisual image.
 

Mormegil

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
4,178
574
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Nargothrond
[tR]Mad Mac said:
Think of children waving fourth of july sparklers. Similar phenomenon.

Not just sparklers, but the sparks themselves. We see sparks as moving lines of lights, but there really just points (spheres if you really want to be techinical).

Same with the water coming out of the faucet - it looks like a constant stream, but if you can freeze time, you'd see it's a bunch of big spherical drops falling down.


Our eyes don't see things instantaenously, that's why tracers look more elongated than they really are.

BTW: The tracer you see isn't some kind of magical glowing bullet, it's a small trail of flame burning off the bullet. I would like to see what that looks like frozen (like that bullet hitting the apple photo).


Also, when I stated that a tracer taken at 1/8000 sec would appear as a 4cm line, I was probably wrong. The tracer round would have moved 4cm, but I believe the burning flame emited from the round would extend a bit further than that, as the fuel may still be burning outside of the round (several feet according to Wikipedia). Either way, exposure time makes a huge difference.
 
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Jack

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 24, 2005
752
0
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No offense but you guys aren't really thinking clear on what I meant.





If the exposure time distorts the image from reality, and the in-game tracers are suppossed to be what would be viewed in reality, then how can it be correct for the tracers in game to appear longer than those on film when the film would be making them look longer than in reality? You see what I mean?
 

[-project.rattus-]

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
3,036
371
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Austria
www.youtube.com
Go to a dark room, then turn on a light while ou look exactly at it, and then turn it off again.

Then you'll experience that tracers might look quite long IRL, depending on the surrounding light. So you really can't judge how a tracer looks like by looking at photos and videos.
 

Jack

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 24, 2005
752
0
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OMG does no one understand what I mean lol? :D


Yes, the eye does not see the point of light but an elongated residual image that makes it look "quite long." But you guys keep reiterating that without seeing what I am trying to say.

The fact that the film will make a tracer appear even longer depending on exposure setting is what the whole point is, because regardless if it is your eye looking at it in real life, or at a film, your eye is still your eye.


Thus, if anything, on film the tracers will look longer than they would in real life, due to exposure time and the frames per second. Someone brought up sparklers, and that is a good example. No matter WHAT the ambient lighting conditions are, your eye will never see sparkler or firework "streaks" as elongated in real time as those viewed on longer exposure film.


Therefore, while we can say that photos and videos will not accurately show how tracers will look to your eye 100%, we CANNOT say that they will make the tracers shorter than they would appear to your eye witnessing it first hand!


It follows that if the tracers in game are appreciably longer than whatever we are seeing in video footage, then we can conclude they would be appreciably even longer than any tracers viewed in real life.


Now does anyone see what I mean?
 

Mormegil

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
4,178
574
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Nargothrond
I understand what you mean Jack.

I must not have been very clear in my original post.

My point was that the length of the tracer can be longer or SHORTER based on exposure time, compared to what our eyes would see.

So if the film's exposure time was set very fast (like my 1/8000 sec example), then the tracer would appear very short, probably shorter than we would perceive it.

In other words, we don't know if the filmed representation is longer or shorter than a human eye would see.

Jack said:
...we CANNOT say that they will make the tracers shorter than they would appear to your eye witnessing it first hand!
That's sort of correct. We can't say they will for sure, but we can say they *can.* Look at the waterfall example. To our eyes the water fall looks like a cascade of short white streaks. With the fast exposure it looks like...well, it looks like a mess of drops. So in that case the water looks "shorter" than they do in real life.

Secondly, different people perceive things differently*. So it's kind of an arbitrary decision on who's perception should be emulated. It's all subjective.



* for example, a 90 mph fast ball coming at me looks like a white blur. To a professional baseball player, it looks like a baseball stiches an all. Or when you first play paintball, it's difficult to see the paintballs in flight, but with enough experience you see may see the individual balls flying.
 
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Gunwing

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 22, 2005
377
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Silky_Slim said:
Tracers???? Oh you must mean those ol' turbo lasers that where the hot stuff in the 40's;) Presently i think they are to long and give away MG gunners way to easily, shorten em up a bit!

I agree shorten the tracers up so you don't get spotted so much! I mean right now people hardly play as the MG class because the tracers are just a bit pointer saying HERE I AM!
 
A

American_Psycho

Guest
All the devs need to do is make them mimic the tank rounds in the game. Those rounds do not have any tail on them and look very similar to the 5.56mm tracer rounds I have personally fired.