Tracer off button...

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Cnnbs

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 16, 2006
208
0
0
Ummm... since when was this topic about how the tracers look? I think it's a well known fact by now that the tracers are too big, too bright (especially during daytime maps), too long, etc.


Hear that? That would be the English language crying.
Since this topic is about tracers being on and off,i told why they shoud be off or on.
Allthough you claim to know english better than me you have some problems understanding what topic was all about,its about "TRACERS",not about how to use your MG effectively

And making fun of my english,really cool, i am so embrassed that i wont post anything here ever.

P.S:Hope you provide some links b4 start talking about speculation
 

Freischuetz

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 22, 2006
10
0
0
First of all I don't like the tracers in RO because you can hardly use them to aim or correct your aim and they give away your position too quickly on the close combat maps of RO that we play.

I'm gonna ask my granduncle next time I see him about the tracers. He's 93 now and he was in charge of a machine gun team or two on the Eastern Front.

I remember that my grandpa once told me that they used to remove some rounds from a machine gun belt in order to keep the gun from eating through the belt too quickly. I don't know if this was common practice or not.
 

Uffz_Huib

FNG / Fresh Meat
I always love how people ignore that whole little thing called, 'proving it.'

And no, a handful of instances are not 'proving' that anything was common enough to warrant being in the game.


On your same line of thinking...

I have a recorded instance of a single SS trooper finding himself caught behind enemy lines while manning a stationary AA gun who survived for two weeks, and, during that time, managed to knock out a dozen Russian tanks and kill over 200 Russian foot soldiers.

I therefore submit that we introduce a new class into the game.

The UBER-ALLEZ-SS-TRUPPE!

After all, I have recorded facts that it happened.

Maybe only once, but it did happen, and therefore should be in the game.

If you think that is my line of thinking you're wrong. You are making assumptions not me.
It was a tactic of the Germans to place more tracers to make their firepower seem more heavy, as it was a tactic to remove tracers if they didn't want to the enemy to see their fire for example if you didn't want to show you had a certain point under fire. Fire tracers too high and the enemy thinks he's save, at same time fire an MG without tracers at body height type of thing. I have parts of an WW2 MG42 belt so don't tell me nothing about not being able to switch rounds. There is no more evidence that switching round didn't happen often as there is that it did happen often. Fact is that it did happen and that it made sense to remove tracers sometimes as it made sense to use them either for aiming or to set targets on fire.

Huib
 

Freischuetz

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 22, 2006
10
0
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Don't know if anyone is still interested. I talked to my granduncle yesterday. He said that they used tracers every now and then, but usually not.

I guess it won't be changed cause it would impair balance and that's what the devs worship more than anything else. :mad:
 

mat69

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 1, 2006
826
0
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"Balance"?
What the hell is balance, is that something to eat?
Is balance allways the situation we are currently in, or is balance static, is balance the holy grail of gaming?

I know I said that a lot before, but balance is nothing fixed. It's more like a large area that is gray, and different for different people. In fact could you have a balanced game without tracers. It's not like the devs found the only way to balance it.

Sorry for the rant, my fingers get itchy whenever I read "balance". ;)
 

Freischuetz

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 22, 2006
10
0
0
Yes Mat, balance is a russian specialty that is best served hot. It holds about 240 kcal per 100g and was widely loved by German soldiers througout the war:p

Taking out the tracers would make the MG harder so spot and harder to kill and therefore impair the balance (not UNbalance) on some maps. Although I almost never play MG, I like that idea and I'd also like to see the no tracers mod get standart or at least an option that the gunner has.
 

piller

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 2, 2006
289
0
0
One could always just make the tracers harder to see, I've never seen an actual MG tracer but the tracer image itself looks a little wide in-game than how my imagination would portray a tracer.
 

Rrralphster

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 4, 2006
1,411
106
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48
Nederland
The only major case where tracers were NOT issued in a standard loadout during World War II is in aircraft. They were, still, for an extended period of time in the last 50 rounds or so to let the pilot know that they were low on ammo.

This method was quickly changed as it was found that it also let the enemy pilots know they were low on ammo.


This one might not be competely correct... Tracers were used to light fueltanks on WW2 planes.

When you look at day-time combat footage (WW2 dogfights) you can see the smoketrails made by tracers. (the light of the tracer doesn't show, only the smoke)

(N.v.m. those smoke trails might also have been made by incendiary rounds...)
 
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Recce

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 31, 2006
605
0
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I don't mind how visible tracers are, because it offsets how much harder it is (in the game) to locate a MG by the sound of it's firing. When your own ears are ringing from the firing of own rifle and those of your section's, you can still instantly find where the enemy jimpy is (at ranges of say under 300m), and that's with blanks and the delay from the speed of sound.

The fact of the matter is, it is far harder to locate the enemy MG when you have a set of 5.1 or 7.1 speakers, than it is when you are actually stood (lying) there and they are firing blanks at you.
 
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mat69

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 1, 2006
826
0
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"Blanks"?
You are not talking about real bullets?!

Because don't forget that bullets move over the sound of speed, so it is not easy to locate a fireing MG by its sound only.
 

Recce

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 31, 2006
605
0
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Not sure what you're saying.
It's almost as if you're limiting the discusion to the person directly under fire, and excluding anyone else with LOS to the MG.
 

mat69

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 1, 2006
826
0
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What "blanks" are you talking about? (so that I do not misunderstand you on that term)

You were talking about locating by sound not about LOS and that is not easy. With blanks it is, but that does not count as normally you do not fire blanks in a war. ;)
 

Recce

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 31, 2006
605
0
0
What "blanks" are you talking about? (so that I do not misunderstand you on that term)
You were talking about locating by sound not about LOS and that is not easy. With blanks it is, but that does not count as normally you do not fire blanks in a war. ;)
I do mean blank rounds, rather than ball or tracer. And with a BFA attached to the barrel.

In real life, soldiers have both visual and audio clues to help them spot enemy firing on them. If you weren't looking in the right direction, the sound of the first shot helps you spot the muzzle flash of the 2nd shot.
When I've been at the wrong end of an LMG, it's been firing blanks, and I found it really easy to orientate my gaze to precisely where it was.

Within RO:OST, the audio cues aren't nearly as effective as they are in real life. What is reproduced on the speakers is far less precise. You only get a general bearing on which direction to turn to see the source of the noise.

IMHO, the RO:OST tracers make up for the relatively poor sound cues you get from having speakers on your desk.
 

mat69

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 1, 2006
826
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Well you can forget blanks, as there are no bullets flying around. These bullets, that travel faster than sound each make it hard to recognise the position of the shooter. In fact this also heavily depends on the suround - fireing in a valley etc. ...
 

Recce

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 31, 2006
605
0
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Well you can forget blanks, as there are no bullets flying around. These bullets, that travel faster than sound each make it hard to recognise the position of the shooter.
While this might hold true for the guy who's got bullets wizzing past his head, that's not going to be true for everyone on the field with LOS on the MG.
In fact this also heavily depends on the suround - fireing in a valley etc. ...
If they're not too far away, say under 300m, not really.
 

mat69

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 1, 2006
826
0
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You keep telling me about LOS while in your initial post you were talking about recognising by sound.

It makes quite a difference in recognising, if the sonic is reflected by all the hills and mounds around you here a lot of more sounds than if you are fireing in a flat area. Also your postion changes things, being prone or standing makes a difference in being able to allocate sounds.
Recognising the position by sound is not easy, at least not as easy as to recognise these leaser beams ...
 

Recce

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 31, 2006
605
0
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You keep telling me about LOS while in your initial post you were talking about recognising by sound.
By LOS, I mean what you have the ability see from your current position, not necessarily what you are currently looking at. You still have LOS on something 45 degrees off to your side, you just happen not to be looking in that direction at that instant.

While you have a 120 degree of peripheral vision, the near-peripheral and the focus of your gaze is more like 8 degrees, although that is constantly on the move. If you weren't looking in the right direction, the sound of the first shot helps you spot the muzzle flash of the 2nd shot. If there was muzzle flash, you might also see that in your peripheral vision, but in RO:OST, not only is the sound perception restricted, but so is the peripheral vision.

I'm not talking about sound alone, but rather sound and vision working together to help you find things.
In real life, soldiers have both visual and audio clues to help them spot enemy firing on them.