• Please make sure you are familiar with the forum rules. You can find them here: https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?threads/forum-rules.2334636/

Total analysis on damage-resistance system (Why you can't enjoy this game?)

ddongssanda

Active member
Oct 19, 2013
38
0
2016-06-17.jpg


See that fabulous mosaic of colors?

Right. You must rote them all for real co-op experience.



Weapon reality is now GONE, just for 'teamplay'. (What's the point of distinguishing 'handgun vs SMG' or 'Rifle vs AR'? Doesn't combustion vividly destroys the muscles and body organs and give extreme pain?)

Now each perks and each zeds are tightly paired. You must not waste your ammo on 'inappropriate zed subvarieties' and call your company who is busy defending the other direction, because this is the TEAMPLAY.

If only one of certain perk member is dead, then it's GAME OVER. If you lack only one member from 6 men full party, you can barely make a working combination, so you'd better keep waiting for him.

You must kick berserkers and firebugs. They are USELESS. They are not even good at their 'supposed role'. Berserkers are now more sluggish than pigs so he is no longer a firefighter of the battle line. Firebugs are even worse - they can't kill ANYTHING without MWG.


Screw it. I'm leaving out. END OF THE LINE




================================================================


For those poor lads who can't just give up all hope, I'll leave you some short description about each zeds.

  • Clot clones: SMGs stomp on them but unfortunately we don't have SWAT weapons yet. Just pray that they don't absorb your ammo too much. Berserkers must resort to knife poking, if you want pulverizer-first way.

  • Line Breachers: Gorefast, Crawler, Stalker

    These suckers should not bother you so much in former versions, but now they are very destructive with their mere health and numbers. You must have a supporter-commando pair in your party not to be crippled by them. Medic AR makes an alternative, but with many limitations (vision, ammo, being busy to help sharpshooters).

  • Gorefast: They are for supporters and sharpshooters. Sharpshooters need to concentrate on big games in late game, so commandos should start headshooting then. Don't buy AK12 - it doesn't work against the swinging beans of gorefasts.

  • Crawler, Stalker: Everyone, move back! And call commando for help. They were already excellent ammo absorbers with swift actions, and now they are reinforced with nasty new armors. Just don't try it. They'll ensure that you are run out of ammo when you really need them by the end of the wave (no matter GFs or FPs).

  • Medium Hazards: Bloat, Husk, Siren

    They are sacred targets of supporters, gunslingers, and sharpshooters, and perhaps MWGs. Commandos can no longer snipe them. Call your company. Also remember that crossbow is piercing weapon, so it doesn't work.

  • Bloat: Forget it. Leave them to snipers (sharpshooters & gunslingers) only, if they have high-tier weaponry. Or else, try head. Just don't get too close.
  • Siren: Demolitionists can no longer pick them out reliably. Shotguns or snipers only.
  • Husk: If there is a MWG, let him try his one-purpose weapon. Shotguns or snipers only, if not.

  • Big games: Scrake, Fleshpound

    Sharpshooters have primary responsibilities on them. They are pretty not much changed per se, but MWG lost its 200% damage on SCs and demos got their weapons nerfed generally - they should be retired into the sub-roles. Commandos must stay away from them and wasting your precious ammo for trashes.
 
Last edited:
I want to play but yesterday I literally raged quit because I could not kill anything without spamming **** tons of ammo.

I actually was caught in a corner in a game as a sharpy and could not shoot my way out. Sirens were on me so the grenades I threw down evaporated. I decided to stand there mentally face palming "The **** are you doing TripWire"

I've rarely or never complained about this game. A few things here and there but this is just out of control. I cant enjoy this game with this new resistance system. I cant stand stalkers. I hate sirens even more now than before which I didnt think was possible.
 
Upvote 0
That story sounds just like the last few rounds I played tonight except that it was millions of spiders munching on my legs that appear out of nowhere plus stalkers and about 70000 sirens all "waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa"ing at us from every angle. If we managed to run away we'd only get trapped by the same stupid sirens/spiders/stalkers we just ran away from.

gg
 
Upvote 0
OP really touches on what I've been saying about the new resistance: it's a hamfisted way to force team play. There should be no reason a ZED resists assault rifles, but is weak to pistols or SMGs. Ballistics should just be ballistics. The new resistance system just massive changes or just needs to go. There was absolutely nothing wrong with how it was before.
 
Upvote 0
Title got me excited about something elaborate. Now I'm disappointed... :(

At least, it's better than your "guide".
This IS an analysis, don't you see the table?

Or do I need to verbalize it all like "... you see, the ONLY perks who is able to wipe out the gorefasts are not commandos (as it should be by its initial design), but supporters and sharpshooters. This forces the parties have a mandatory comm-supp pair for line-breachers (gorefasts+stalkers) countering, as sharpshooters would be too busy for their sacred role of big game hunting."

Over-complication of the damage system has made the game quite simple. One perk, one zed. No alternatives. What an irony. You don't need to fully write down them all - then what's the tables and graphs are for?
 
Upvote 0
Gosh I came back to play this and it is horrible. I like what TW is trying to do here like in KF1 everyone knows not to light the Scrake but this was really poorly executed and overly complex.


At this point they just need to remove the system as it is that bad. Go back to the drawing board or move on to other features. Good try TW but let us burry this and never speak of it again.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This IS an analysis, don't you see the table?

Or do I need to verbalize it all like "... you see, the ONLY perks who is able to wipe out the gorefasts are not commandos (as it should be by its initial design), but supporters and sharpshooters. This forces the parties have a mandatory comm-supp pair for line-breachers (gorefasts+stalkers) countering, as sharpshooters would be too busy for their sacred role of big game hunting."

Over-complication of the damage system has made the game quite simple. One perk, one zed. No alternatives. What an irony. You don't need to fully write down them all - then what's the tables and graphs are for?

No I meant the title made me hope for an actual analysis not a knee-jerky rant thread. I see you've edit your original post with what looks like a guide but is actually blatant misinformation. You don't have to try so hard to pull stuff out of your *** if you don't want to.
I just got mislead by the title that is all (though hopefully people won't be mislead by the content now).

Edit: Doesn't look like anybody posting here has even read it so. WW
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
There has been an overwhelming amount of complaints about the new resistance system. Part of the problem is that it's both very much against the whole philosophy of KF, but also because the developers swore in interviews they would never do something like this and now they have, for seemingly no other reason than to cram "teamplay" down your throat - and it's not very good at that, either.

Ever since I've played KF2 I've NEVER looked back to KF1, even though I had hundreds of hours into that before Steam even started counting it. I know some members make a lot of complaints that KF2 isn't like KF1, and before I didn't agree, and thought KF2 was going in just the right direction. Could use some tweaks, but hey, the game isn't even out yet. But now, I find myself comparing KF1 and KF2, and seeing how badly this resistance system is messing everything up. It's very disappointing.

Thing is, KF1 was much harder, but there were not more Zeds, they were MUCH easier to kill, weapons were much cheaper, Zeds were super slow and didn't dance around as mcuh as they do now so headshotting was a doddle, they didn't have the extra-powerful attacks they have now, etc. In pretty much every way, KF1 should've been much easier, but it's not. In some way, KF1 managed to get a great balance of difficulty without resorting to overwhelming numbers of Zeds, pointless resistances, or other lame, cheap tactics.
 
Upvote 0
No I meant the title made me hope for an actual analysis not a knee-jerky rant thread. I see you've edit your original post with what looks like a guide but is actually blatant misinformation. You don't have to try so hard to pull stuff out of your *** if you don't want to.
I just got mislead by the title that is all (though hopefully people won't be mislead by the content now).

Edit: Doesn't look like anybody posting here has even read it so. WW
It seemed you needed some (redundant) description about the analysis, so I wrote down them like a curator. All things, the table and the text have no exaggeration or fabrication. Any refutation, go ahead. You look like even black humour, as you continuously suggest some excuses about the new system which are actually not available in the real game.
 
Upvote 0
No I meant the title made me hope for an actual analysis not a knee-jerky rant thread. I see you've edit your original post with what looks like a guide but is actually blatant misinformation. You don't have to try so hard to pull stuff out of your *** if you don't want to.
I just got mislead by the title that is all (though hopefully people won't be mislead by the content now).

Edit: Doesn't look like anybody posting here has even read it so. WW

Disclaimer: I have yet to play the updated version (for various reasons).

You are right in that the OP looks like a rant, but I think the MVP of this thread is the spreadsheet. Damage numbers are all over the place, and many have flat out stated that they look arbitrary and overly complex. The fact that there are already specific weapons in the rightmost column tells me that this is just the beginning of a long balancing nightmare (I hope I'm wrong though).

P.S. I'm guessing that these resistances don't scale with difficulty. As such, I suspect that players on Hard will have more of an uphill battle with trash than those on HoE. This is because most players on Hard are lower levels and will have lower damage (both passive and perk skills). Can someone confirm this?
 
Upvote 0
Yes, damage resistance is the same between every difficulty (even normal).
The only difference between difficulty (hard/suicidal/hoe) is :
- HP (for middle zed/ SC / FP),
- Numbers of zed by wave,
- % of chance of hard attack (or running),
- Zed speed (I think).

Your post is interesting because I did not really consider that hard (with low level player) could be harder that suicidal (with high level player).

I mean, if you really think about it :
- HP got increased for Bloat/Gorefast,
- Resistance makes it harder to deal with trash zed,
- Zed have now a chance to do more move in hard.

I really would like to know the % of win since the update. Although, as long as everyone is playing sharpshooter, it's not really representative of an "actual" game.
 
Upvote 0
Disclaimer: I have yet to play the updated version (for various reasons).

You are right in that the OP looks like a rant, but I think the MVP of this thread is the spreadsheet. Damage numbers are all over the place, and many have flat out stated that they look arbitrary and overly complex. The fact that there are already specific weapons in the rightmost column tells me that this is just the beginning of a long balancing nightmare (I hope I'm wrong though).

P.S. I'm guessing that these resistances don't scale with difficulty. As such, I suspect that players on Hard will have more of an uphill battle with trash than those on HoE. This is because most players on Hard are lower levels and will have lower damage (both passive and perk skills). Can someone confirm this?

There is probably a lot of work to be done but let me tell you this:

It doesn't really make the game more complex for the player because you absolutely don't have to know about any resistance in order to beat the game. Just find the weapons that seem to work for (for whatever reason) and you're good. I haven't found a single weapon so far that just makes it impossible to kill any specific kind of trash zed. They vary in effectiveness but not so much that you strinctly can't use rifles against stalkers or whatever people claim.

The resistances themselves look draconic but reworked perks deal much more damage as well. In my experience, zeds are only tougher in a sense that is worth sweating when you fail to hit their heads (barring a few exceptions). Even medic and support are still just as powerful as they used to be.
You need only boot up a testmap with your favourite perk, spawn some zed pawns and count how many headshots it takes. See for yourself. I found that either nothing changed or some weapon vs zed combinations got a little weaker but others got better in return (e.g. medic AR is a little weaker against gorefast but medic shotgun is stronger in return). The bottomline is the game is different, but not harder or more complex and they managed to create niches for weapons that had none previously.

Tbh, you have to be warned they're running a little experiement with firebug without even reworking the perk skills before so it might not be too enjoyable right now. I can't say anything comparable about any other perk though.


I can't tell how the resistances will affect other low level perks on lower difficulties but it didn't seem to make a huge difference for demo and sharpshooter, which I have been leveling up from hard to HoE since the update.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
That story sounds just like the last few rounds I played tonight except that it was millions of spiders munching on my legs that appear out of nowhere plus stalkers and about 70000 sirens all "waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa"ing at us from every angle. If we managed to run away we'd only get trapped by the same stupid sirens/spiders/stalkers we just ran away from.

gg

I'm sorry, I'm a firebug and I would of removed those spiders for you, but wait a second, the CRAWLERS, THE ZED WHICH THE FIREBUG IS SUPPOSE TO BE THE COUNTER TO, has one of the highest fire resistance in the game.
sorry for the caps, that idea just pisses me off for some reason
 
Upvote 0
I was a level 23 Support in Hard, running inside the passage to the boat on Evacuation Point with a fully loaded Deagle, Combat Shotgun and Scrakes as well as Fleshpounds in my back. I didn't make it because I encountered a bunch of Stalkers in front of me. This update ****ed up an already weird Support perk.

I hope you guys at TWI think twice the next time. This new system might not be horrible, but you ruined the balance of the game with it. Maybe you should have kept some of your QA testers. :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0