To all the Naysayers

[Mike 78]

Personally I think TWI, a small indie company, releases less buggy games with more dilligent fixes and intelligent balance changes.

DICE on the other hand have what, 270+ people in their studio? And the games are not only bug infested, but get WORSE as the patching goes? Especially in terms of balance?

Come on, trying to make TW look better by dissing Dice sounds kind of silly, like fanboyish. BF 3 was pretty much overpolished compared to RO2 in it's current form. Besides, BF 3 is in another league entirely. RO2 is still a niche game and frankly it brings nothing new to the table in it's current form. Untill TW or the modders fix the gameplay RO2 ain't got sh*t on BF3. Face it, BF 3 brings graphics and sound to the next level. RO2 could have brought realistic gameplay to the next level.....but they didn't
Stop comparing this game to BF3 cause it will only make you look like a angry fanboy.

 

[[-project.rattus-]]

I have to agree with the notion that it isn't actually the bugs (allthough it is baffling how many still are there, even though they should've been fixed with updates according to patchlogs...), but the gameplay direction TWI chose to take with RoHOS.

RO was a wonderful niche product. The niche was small, but within it, it prospered. Back in those days, the devs and the community didn't regard each other as adversaries, but as partners.

But then, TWI made the decision to leave it's cosy, comfortable niche and gain a bigger audience. Now I can totally understand that, especially since TWI needs to make money. But to do so, they tried to strike a compromise between what made RO great and what mainstream audiences want. And that's where they failed.

I'm not even starting talking about tanking.

It's making the maps more choke-point driven, and more linear. While that makes for more "exciting" gameplay where there's more action, it severely limits the long time appeal and the tactical and strategical freedom the mod maps had.

And it's the abysmal unlock system with the historically dubious choices of unlocks. The old timers and especially competitive players hate it because it DOES affect gameplay as it DOES imrpove stats. Might look like a small number, but if you have to play on level zero after levelling up, you will notice how much easier the game becomes because of the stats and unlocks.
And the "CoD" crowd hates it, because unlocks are too infrequent to create the addictiveness of such a system, and many unlocks (as opposed to the stats upgrades) are nonsensical (winter trigger guard, really?).

Also, TWI in general, and I think Ramm personally, because of some grudge he has with affiliates of ROLadder, don't really try to cater the competitive scene, without realising that it's the clans that keep the game alive after launch, by hosting servers, playing themselves. And a long living community spawns better and more mods that in turn extend the life of the game.

So while it may be true that ROHOS is the best selling game of TWI to date, it's mainly because of the prerelease hype. The palyerbase is dying off, and not too slowly, despite Ramms claims that it's not true.
Which is really sad, because ROHOS is full of potential greatness, but sadly falls short of it in too many aspects.

Now of course I think that TWI will support RO with free and buyable content in the future, but I for one don't know if I will support them anymore. ROHOS is definately the last TWI poduct I preordered out of the trust I had in the Devs. If they release other games in the future, I will be wary and wait for a few weeks, browsing the forums before deciding if I buy it or not.

 

[Machete234]

Also, TWI in general, and I think Ramm personally, because of some grudge he has with affiliates of ROLadder, don't really try to cater the competitive scene

What is that all about?

 

[Scarf Ace]

...

Fantastic post. :IS2:

 

[The Beast (nl)]

RO2 had a bad launch. I get that. But you know what else had a bad launch? Every other game Tripwire has made. But here's the thing: Tripwire is going to fix probably every last issue you guys are having a fit over and they're going to keep adding fixes and content for years from now. RO2 will only get better from here. The SDK is coming out this week!

What are you talking now?? It`s like a chicken without head.

I remember when i bought Operation Flashpoint that came on the market strongly unfinished. There came very many patches after the launch.

I have read that bf3 also came bugged on the market.

What do you think of silent hunter 5? Came very bugged on the market.
There have been some patches. Still bugged and ubicom doesn`t make any patches anymore. The modders have to solve it to make it playable.

And there are enough examples.

So don`t blame TWI.

 

[Proud_God]

Agreed on most part, Rattus, but you seem to imply stat upgrades make sense:

...and many unlocks (as opposed to the stats upgrades) are nonsensical...

They don't make sense to me.

 

[defektive]

What is that all about?

That part piqued my interest as well...

 

[defektive]

ROHOS is definately the last TWI poduct I preordered out of the trust I had in the Devs. If they release other games in the future, I will be wary and wait for a few weeks, browsing the forums before deciding if I buy it or not.

Yup, I'm feeling the burn too. I don't feel as ripped off as some do because I do play RO2 and at times actually quite enjoy the game; however, I am aggrieved that I bought an RO game on faith (who would even consider that an RO game would turn its back on such a hard won gaming niche) which turned out to be just-another-FPS. I didn’t want just-another-FPS. Henceforth I will not be pre-ordering (I usually don’t pre-order unless I think it’s a safe bet – I thought this one was).

Hope spring eternal for future TWI u-turns and modding (tho I’m far from confident it will be picked up all that readily).

 

[mattlach]

Games being buggy on launch seems to be the new status quo from all developers.

I blame - industry wide - the bean counters and marketing folks pushing for unrealistic launch dates with low headcount and screwing over the programmers and artists.

I've played a few different widely anticipated games from launch recently. The most recent was Civ 5. It also had a ton of bugs on launch and was - over time - patched to work well.

If you want a game that has no problems - these days - the way to get this seems to be to wait for the "game of the year edition" or the like, as they tend to be pretty stable.

RO2 is different though. It had a rough launch with bugs, most of which have been sorted out by now. Most community gripes - however - are in regards to major gameplay aspects and mechanics of the game. Bugs usually get patched by developers, but very rarely are major mechanics altered post release I'm hoping TWI is different here, and are willing to tweak these things, but I'm not counting on it, as - quite frankly - it's mostly unheard of.

I will say this - however. I will definitely not buy any DLC (like Rising Storm, for instance) unless/until these major game play mechanics are fixed. I suggest all of you pledge the same. Maybe this will give the bean counters the incentive to let the people actually working on the game do the right thing.

 

[Field Marshal Rommel]

They never fixed tanking in RO.

They also never fixed the achievements or the in game demo function in RO.

Please elaborate on this. I didn't see anything wrong with it.

The overpowered ptrd, the overpowered T60, the overpowered angling effect especially on T34s vs 75mm/88mm rounds, the lack of seperate turret armor for all tanks, the Parkinson's disease MG shake on all tanks, the unrealistic tank ballistics, 85's penetrating Tigers at 2,000 meters frontally...Videos:



Red Orchestra NoWay#01 PTRD-41 on Arad - YouTube

PTRD vs Panzer IV H side skirts - YouTube

Red Orchestra's unrealistic T-60 light tank - YouTube

T34/85 vs Tiger I tank - YouTube

Well in my view, the tanks were pretty decently equal in the mod....and the IS2 was difficult for Panzers to take out if angled properly.

Never played the mod but this sounds like a problem right there. Sounds like no seperate turret armor modeled just like in RO I. The IS2 turret was only 90-100 mm and was never thickened due to major imbalance problems it would have caused. Hence, a Panzer IV L/48 would be able to penetrate its turret front at up to at least 200 meters. No need to mention what the Panther will do to it. Angled IS2 = shoot his turret = Boom.

basically the T34 = Panzer

I don't understand what you are saying here? In English you are stating T34 = Tank. What kind of tank or panzer are you talking about?

as no matter how you angled or positioned the Panzers, just about every shot from any tank would blow them up in one hit, thus most players avoided using them

"Panzers". Assuming Panzer IV H when this tank was belatedly added to RO I realistically codewise it should have been doing the exact opposite. That is, with its 8 cm frontal armor it should have been taking multiple hits from soviet 76 mm weapons at combat range which in game it didn't. In addition, the Panzer III L in RO I for some inexplicable reason still has, to this day, its front armor thickness set at 30 mm in the code. The correct thickness for an L is 70 mm Nerfage. So it is not surprizing that most players avoided using them...

If the T34's frontal turret area was beefed up a bit (leave the rest of the tank's physics as it is) then both tanks would be equally balanced.

That is the problem. They are not supposed to be equally balanced. This particular model of Panzer IV in RO II is superior to the T3476. The turret on a T34761942 is 67 mm. A KwK 40 L/43 would penetrate this up to at least 1,500 meters.

If the T34's frontal turret area was beefed up a bit

It would mess up the DLC Panzer IIIJ

 

[Obey]

Being honest - if the video gaming industry will continue going down the trend path (too early releases to make publishing deadlines and support/or no support for the fan community to polish up the product) its heading now soon we will go to the stores to buy a game and inside the box there will be a code, that will allow us to download the full pack containing- SDK, some manuals, general level design maps, concept art and a premium membership for a year to acess the resources.
The consumers will then group up and create the game themselves so its exactly the way they want it for a mere 40$

 

[Murphy]

RO2 had a bad launch. I get that. But you know what else had a bad launch? Every other game Tripwire has made. But here's the thing: Tripwire is going to fix probably every last issue you guys are having a fit over and they're going to keep adding fixes and content for years from now. RO2 will only get better from here. The SDK is coming out this week!

I think you're a little late apologizing for the botched launch, lol.

 

[CuriousOrange]

While I agree Tripwires other games have also had wonky launches I don't remember any quite like this. RO wasn't particularly good on launch, it did actually work though. Where RO2 was technically poor for me for the first few weeks, lots of crashes and unexplained framerates.

I think generally their games are unpolished or unbalanced on release. But I don't remember them crashing anywhere near as much as RO2 at release.

Still I agree with the sentiment. Give the game a break, it's great fun. If you don't enjoy it, fair enough. But there's no point in ruining these forums for those who do enjoy it.

 

[cucamonster]

For me, now that the performance is fixed besides some minor bugs, the game still don't pleasant me as ROOST did.

Modders, bring it in please.

 

[mowskwoz]

Nay!

 

[Gudenrath]

I must admit learning today that some people actually do have full sounds (especially enemy footsteps) is a bit of a gamebreaker to me.

 

[TheRealGunther]

Personally I think TWI, a small indie company, releases less buggy games with more dilligent fixes and intelligent balance changes.

DICE on the other hand have what, 270+ people in their studio? And the games are not only bug infested, but get WORSE as the patching goes? Especially in terms of balance?

This x100 people give TWI too much of a hard time to even compare RO2 too AAA titles is saying alot they have like 25 employees.They have done a great job so far working hard to fix the game while it may not be perfect its certainly improving.

Most of all modern games have lots of bugs BF3, Cod, Skyrim the list goes on and on.Within 6 months these games will receive NO new patches.While TWI will continue to improve Ro2 time will prove this.

The reason people rag on RO2 so much is because it has a learning curve and they get owned in game then come to the forums already mad and troll lol.Do people give Skyrim hell for only using 2 gigs of ram and full of bugs and lucky to get 30 fps in a city on a high end rig...Not as much because its easy to play.

People need to give TWI some slack jeez...yes they could have done better at release but, they certainly could have done alot worse.Look at the utter crap that's released every year by much bigger developers.Only a handful of games each year is even worth buying and I still think Ro2 is one of these games.Unlike other fps it actually offers something unique and pushes the genre forward.

 

[mattlach]

I must admit learning today that some people actually do have full sounds (especially enemy footsteps) is a bit of a gamebreaker to me.

I have full sounds in the game and have since launch.

I have - however - found that it is very difficult to determine the direction they are coming from in this game.

It's almost as if it's in mono.

 

[Keyser_Söze]

People need to give TWI some slack jeez...yes they could have done better at release but, they certainly could have done alot worse.Look at the utter crap that's released every year by much bigger developers.Only a handful of games each year is even worth buying and I still think Ro2 is one of these games.Unlike other fps it actually offers something unique and pushes the genre forward.

Sorry but this is garbage. Being the little guy does not give you a free pass when people are putting down their hard earned money on your product. What is unique or innovative about RO2? Almost every gameplay element is lifted from other shooters. Bandaging, recon planes, spotting, spawn on squad, stat tracking, unlocks, player progression, firefight, countdown, etc...all taken from other games. What's worse is all of these unnecessary "features" are implemented poorly in RO2.

The reason people rag on RO2 so much is because it has a learning curve and they get owned in game then come to the forums already mad and troll lol.Do people give Skyrim hell for only using 2 gigs of ram and full of bugs and lucky to get 30 fps in a city on a high end rig...Not as much because its easy to play.

Actually, it's quite the opposite. RO2 is not difficult to play, no more so than any other run & gun fps, and that is the problem.

 

[Faneca]

While I agree Tripwires other games have also had wonky launches I don't remember any quite like this. RO wasn't particularly good on launch, it did actually work though.

KF was worse, trust me.
I had some serious frustatrions with the game, reason why I didn't actually play it for a while.