I love how in every thread where people complain about the tank system or mention the AB mutator some just can't help but try to bring it down to a "you're all nazi fanboys" every two to three pages.
The AB mutator does not make Tigers or Panthers indestructable. For example T34 85's can finally take out Panthers frontally on Arad. In either case there are a lot less "wtf?" situations on those few servers running the mutator.
Which is the main point. If people waited until something was "perfect" they would still be waiting. Is stock RO perfect? No, yet people have no problem playing it. Why is a mutator made by one guy held to a higher standard than the stock game? I think some are picking out flaws in the mutator to use as an "excuse" why they don't want to play it. It's ok for people to admit they don't care for realistic tank combat nobodys going to kill them for their preference. Anyway.Still AB fixes most of the stock tank flaws.
My T-34 was at point blank range and couldn't penetrate the side of a Pz IV!!" or "WTF?? How'd my IS-2 get penetrated by a Pz III???" They show up, but the bulk of "WTF" style comments seem to come from the German side of things.
My thoughts exactly. AB mutator isn't perfect. But it's waaaayyyy better than stock RO armor system.Why is a mutator made by one guy held to a higher standard than the stock game? I think some are picking out flaws in the mutator to use as an "excuse" why they don't want to play it.
Which is the main point. If people waited until something was "perfect" they would still be waiting. Is stock RO perfect? No, yet people have no problem playing it. Why is a mutator made by one guy held to a higher standard than the stock game? I think some are picking out flaws in the mutator to use as an "excuse" why they don't want to play it. It's ok for people to admit they don't care for realistic tank combat nobodys going to kill them for their preference. Anyway.
Which doesn't matter since, apart from the turret, the 76 and 85 have about the same armor values in game (and in real life). The difference in front armor is 2mm. A shot that would kill a 76 would very likely kille a 85, too. Arad, Barashka... whenever there's a Tiger on a map the Soviet tank it'll face the most is the T34 85. In the current situation, T34 85 vs Tiger, the Tiger looses, while it should win (Generalizing on purpose here). In addition to its real life issues of being slow and having a slow traverse its cannon is strangely ineffective against T34 armor (no matter if it's the 76 or the 85). A1.)T-34/76 and Tiger never meet on any stock RO map either.
I think you're being a little paranoid here. And I think it's not very helpful: The more people defend the situation we have now, even if it's just by discrediting half the people complaining as fanboys, the longer we will have to live with the borked tanks.2.) My issue is less with the fact that people complain about the matchup in general, but usually that it's people complaining that THEIR Tiger/Panther did X, Y, or Z. When you see people repeatedly posting about how their [insert German tank here] got pwned/couldn't pwn, it casts the issue in a particular light.
T-34/76 and Tiger never meet on any stock RO map either.
I think it does matter, otherwise you ignore half of the situation, the capabilities of the Russian 85mm over the 76mm gun.Which doesn't matter since, apart from the turret, the 76 and 85 have about the same armor values in game (and in real life). The difference in front armor is 2mm. A shot that would kill a 76 would very likely kille a 85, too. Arad, Barashka... whenever there's a Tiger on a map the Soviet tank it'll face the most is the T34 85. In the current situation, T34 85 vs Tiger, the Tiger looses, while it should win (Generalizing on purpose here).
AB Mut is wonderful as helps all the armor not just one side or the other. No need to go into details,...
I think it does matter, otherwise you ignore half of the situation, the capabilities of the Russian 85mm over the 76mm gun.
In (stock) Arad, the usual combat range is generally 500m or less.
In Barashka, due it the "mist", the maximum combat ranges is 400m.
So you'll need to expand on your argument of why the Tiger should win in those conditions.
Surely both tanks are within the effective range of each others gun.
Or are you really saying that the Tiger rarely wins, because my logic dictates that the Tiger should win 50% of time.
I just find it interesting that people ONLY seem to complain about stuff when it's the Germans not performing well. To me, that suggests a bias in their point of view.
The more people defend the situation we have now, even if it's just by discrediting half the people complaining as fanboys, the longer we will have to live with the borked tanks.
I think it does matter, otherwise you ignore half of the situation, the capabilities of the Russian 85mm over the 76mm gun.
In (stock) Arad, the usual combat range is generally 500m or less.
In Barashka, due it the "mist", the maximum combat ranges is 400m.
So you'll need to expand on your argument of why the Tiger should win in those conditions.
Surely both tanks are within the effective range of each others gun.
Or are you really saying that the Tiger rarely wins, because my logic dictates that the Tiger should win 50% of time.
this is bs:
the farest range a t34/85 can penetrate the tigers front armor is about 550m, but thats a 0 degree hit! even at 300m the t3485 has to hit with max 15 degree. look into the "tiger fibel", there u can see something called "kleeblatt". in a one one one situation a tiger can make it impossible for the t34 to penetrate him, while the tiger can kill the t34 from every angle. the tiger should win a one on one duell nearly every single time if they spot each other at the same time.
even battlefield.ru says that this is not true. it says that t3485 can penetrate 90mm with apbc at 30 degree and 500m. at 300m it would be something like 100mm, still not a sure penetration.In 30 degree angle it could penetrate Tiger almost in any part of the hull still at 450 - 500m.
Originally Posted by Oldih
In 30 degree angle it could penetrate Tiger almost in any part of the hull still at 450 - 500m
this is bs:
the farest range a t34/85 can penetrate the tigers front armor is about 550m, but thats a 0 degree hit! even at 300m the t3485 has to hit with max 15 degree. look into the "tiger fibel", there u can see something called "kleeblatt". in a one one one situation a tiger can make it impossible for the t34 to penetrate him, while the tiger can kill the t34 from every angle. the tiger should win a one on one duell nearly every single time if they spot each other at the same time.
What are you saying here? Are you suggesting that either making everything perfect or nothing or are you suggesting that TWI found the holy grail in balance and that there is only one way of balanced?[...]
Since that is not possible, we need to rely on generic balance. Sure I don't mind it, but this is the part where people comes either fanboying either side or ignoring some important facts.
What are you saying here? Are you suggesting that either making everything perfect or nothing or are you suggesting that TWI found the holy grail in balance and that there is only one way of balanced?
the BR-365P, a apcr round, would have a better chance, but htey were very rare.
Germany had more trouble sourcing tungsten than the Allied countries. Even though, it wasn't common compared to other AP shells. For the Russian army, the 76mm shell was (supposedly) accepted into service in Oct '43, and the 85mm accepted in Feb '44.In that I was referring to the Soviet APCR round (don't remember the name). I apologize the fact I speak worse english than any else.