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Tier 4 Weapon's Counter-intuitive Playstyles

rockit!

Member
Sep 19, 2016
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[This is a re-post from my steam forums discussion]


I had been sort of hesitant to make a discussion about this but I kinda wanted to see if anybody else had noticed this either.

Has anyone noticed how some tier 4 perk weapons play the opposite of what the perk's skills promote?

For instance, Firebug, has almost it's entire skill tree dedicated to doing fire damage and damage over time, and yet the tier 4 weapons that is supposed to be his strongest weapon doesn't shoot fire or do any DOT? I mean yes the microwave gun does fulfill its role in killing zeds with metal on them but what was the point of picking up all the perks to do really good DOT damage and have zeds light each other on fire when you can't even do that with your "best" weapon. And on top of that you can't carry the flamethrower with it so your only choice is to use the pathetic caulk'n'burn or don't use the microwave gun at all.

Other perks that suffer from this are Berserker with the eviscerator and Sharpshooter with the rail gun.

To quickly explain, the Berserkers' skill trees support swinging his weapons faster and harder, and yet the eviscerator does not swing and it has an ammo count on the thing he's supposed to be doing the most which is melee.

As for Sharpshooter, as he is built similarly to the Gunslinger, his weapons want to get fast and powerful head shots, but with the rail gun only having a single shot perks like "rack'em up" and both his zed time skills are almost useless because you're going to be spending most of your time reloading and its so heavy you can't carry a weapon that actually supports his play style like the EBR.

I understand that perk skill swapping is a thing but it seems like that doesn't matter for these perks, and it just doesn't seem very logical to have your "best" weapon be the one that none of your skills support.

While yes, you COULD just make it so the microwave gun does DOT or lights things on fire it would kind of ruin the point of the gun, same goes for the eviscerator and rail gun. The only real remedy to this is honestly to add new weapons, because these weapons are fine concepts but it just doesn't seem like they should be advertised as the best weapon for your perk because it seems like other lower tier weapons get the job done better. (i.e flamethrower, pulverizer, EBR)

Now TW can do whatever they want but if I had to make a suggestion on what weapons would promote their skills it would be pretty simple. As the first game had the right idea. (Except for the sharpshooter the M99 was way to slow and 5000 for ammo)

Firebug -- Husk Fireball Launcher, pretty self explanatory for anyone who played the first game. Charge up, shoot into crowd, and anything not blown up is set on fire.

Berserker -- Either a real chainsaw that you CAN swing but it hits multiple times with each swing and has unlimited ammo, or the return of either the Claymore Sword or the Scythe.

Sharpshooter -- Something along the lines of a high power magazine based bolt-action sniper rifle like an AWP or the Remington MSR.
 
Valkyrie_pl;n2270503 said:
You wanna go with EBR, you take rack 'em up. You wanna go big zed hunting with rail, you either take reload speed for faster rail headshots or stay with rack 'em up and build a score of 5 with lever and then swap to rail and basically shoot antimatter at this point.

This.
But kinda agree about Microwave gun, maybe it's alt fire could set zeds on fire? Or after 2-3 seconds of shooting it would set zeds on fire? Would like to see the Husk Gun tho.
 
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Running the risk of sounding controversial here but:

I think the microwave gun should be demo. Microwave something until it explodes in superheated gore, damaging all nearby enemies.

Give the firebug a firebomb launcher. Could just be the rpg with napalm rounds. The reasoning in my mind is, all the demo weapons are fire and reload, and single shot is boring. Alas, I remember seeing they won't bring back the m32 which in KF1 was such fun for the way that if you had to, you could fire all six grenades in rapid sucession, hopefully your teammates can cover you whilst you reload. Giving the microwave gun to the demo would give him something that is continious fire, and during zed time having say, a bloat explode at the right moment and leave lovely green poison aura (not to mention superheated stomach acids, yum) that just eats through armour and flesh alike.

Also give the firebug a long range gun that's not as weak as the trenchgun. Something that explodes into lovely fire on contact. Maybe even a white phosphorous m32? :p
 
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At least to me this is an issue with the skills rather than the weapons, not talking about this cases only, i think it's fine for some skills to benefit some weapons more than others, but having ones that do nothing or close to is not very nice, sure you can deal with it, but it's kind of undewhelming.
 
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beefsupreme;n2270558 said:
Running the risk of sounding controversial here but:

I think the microwave gun should be demo. Microwave something until it explodes in superheated gore, damaging all nearby enemies.

Give the firebug a firebomb launcher. Could just be the rpg with napalm rounds. The reasoning in my mind is, all the demo weapons are fire and reload, and single shot is boring. Alas, I remember seeing they won't bring back the m32 which in KF1 was such fun for the way that if you had to, you could fire all six grenades in rapid sucession, hopefully your teammates can cover you whilst you reload. Giving the microwave gun to the demo would give him something that is continious fire, and during zed time having say, a bloat explode at the right moment and leave lovely green poison aura (not to mention superheated stomach acids, yum) that just eats through armour and flesh alike.

Also give the firebug a long range gun that's not as weak as the trenchgun. Something that explodes into lovely fire on contact. Maybe even a white phosphorous m32? :p

Yeah.... cause we need more overpowered weapons spewing mayhem every which way! ^^

And if everyone remembers rightly it was a Husk Launcher in KF1.... which some of us dont miss! :)
 
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I do agree that the fireball launcher didn't handle too well in kf1 but why not change that then?

Could actually make it function more like the actual KF2 Husk. Like you have a 100 ammo and the primary fire that charges up an AOE fireblast that deals slight explosvie damage while setting everything around it abalze. Make it more accurate and the projectile a little bigger so that its easier to hit.
Then on top of that make the alt-fire a wide range flamethrower that does more direct damage than the flame thrower but sacrifices maximum range?

Primary fire could consume 10 ammo where the alt fire consumes 5 ammo per second with a maximum of 300 ammo.

Perhaps the reload could be you dumping some form of molten liquid into the gun then spinning the chamber to mix it all up?


I just think maybe instead of dismissing the fireball launcher because of the way it performed in kf1 why not change the stats so that its both fun to use and fun to play with on your team?


As a side note the chainsaw I mentioned for the berserker? What if we continued the whole zed-theme weapons and make it a scrake hand-chainsaw? So when he swings it, it would act as if each of the little blades tears into a zed so essentially 1 swing would equal like 5 small hits that would add up?
 
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Soundwave94;n2272743 said:
Adding Scythe for Zerker is good idea, but not Claymore (we have Zweihander already) or Chainsaw (Eviscerator got ability to shreding zeds)
For FireBug I'm voting to add Thermite Launcher instead of Husk Cannon.
Sharpshooter is fine.

Sharpshooter is not fine, its completely broken, try to play an solo HOE game with this and tell me if this is not broken.
Firebug is kind of broken, the last change brought bad changes to it, I think the change in MW causes this confusion.
Now bezerker, its fine for me, and yes the eviscerator have male atacks that use the zerk skills, and its an must have weapon if you play HOE, also it should be used mainly for long range situations ( husk killing, SC, FP ) and big zeds since even bezerker cant handle too much punch in his face from big zeds, also there is no Zweihander for who that dont bought it, so yes, we need an claymore or an free to play Zweihander.
All the bezerker mechanics and ballanced was made using the eviscerator as long rage, take it out and you simple broke this class and made this useless, you will not be able to kill SC and FP anymore, simple take the scenario of 5 FP on HOE raging on you, you need to parry and kill they, with out eviscerator its impossible. Some could say about kf1, but in kf1 the mechanics of FP and SC was totally different..
 
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Personally I want a semi auto Sharpshooter weapon without a scope on it. I hate the EBR cause of that. If Sharpshooter had a mid tier weapon like that which was light enough to be carried with Rail Gun it would be solid IMO. Though the passives are underwhelming compared to other class right now.

Firebug is in a weirder spot right now. Not sure what Tripwire wants to do with it. It used to have good range in KF1, and could have time to burn crowds down before they got close. In KF2 everything sprints on high difficulty so they keep trying to balance it for close range clearing it seems like but it always ends up underpowered or overpowered. Microwave gun though has always been pretty good perks or no since nothing resist.
 
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Soundwave94;n2272743 said:
Adding Scythe for Zerker is good idea, but not Claymore (we have Zweihander already) or Chainsaw (Eviscerator got ability to shreding zeds)
For FireBug I'm voting to add Thermite Launcher instead of Husk Cannon.
Sharpshooter is fine.

The scythe was class playing on Wyre! Fun times! Also.....

This town needs an enem.... I mean this game needs a fire axe! ;) Every zombie game needs a large axe! :D
 
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"his weapons want to get fast and powerful head shots, but with the rail gun only having a single shot perks like "rack'em up" and both his zed time skills are almost useless because you're going to be spending most of your time reloading and its so heavy you can't carry a weapon that actually supports his play style like the EBR."

you're not supposed to rack em up with the railgun
 
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Sifer2;n2273158 said:
... If Sharpshooter had a mid tier weapon like that which was light enough to be carried with Rail Gun it would be solid IMO.

It already have, its the winchester, but for some stupid unknow reason it was nerfed as hell and now its an completely useless weapon, but it was an kind of good trash killer in an not long a go past.
 
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DeadPlayer123;n2273416 said:
It already have, its the winchester, but for some stupid unknow reason it was nerfed as hell and now its an completely useless weapon, but it was an kind of good trash killer in an not long a go past.

It was not THAT much better for trash, but it was less noticeable, since you still needed sniper or other skill like that to 1 shot slashers, now you need it for pretty much anything including 2 crawlers in like (for the second), thing is it takes about 180-200 ms to kick in, which feels a lot longer with the faster pace, plus you have to take into account keyboard height and input lag, i centainly didn't notice this delay needed before the beta.

i can manage somewhat now that i gotten used to it as long as is not in a chaotic kite with spawns around the corner, i would be fine with that as long as it was nice for mid zeds so you can focus on those while your teammates go to trash, this is where it feels like it was hit hardest to me.
 
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