Thoughts on the commando

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Raisins_Tasty

Member
Mar 11, 2013
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Personally I really enjoy playing Commando. It's a very versatile class that excels in almost all ranges against mobs, in both camping and kiting scenarios.

However, as I've played this game I started to notice something: in the current state of Killing Floor every perk has one way or another to handle Fleshpounds and/or Scrakes by themselves in and emergency, except the Commando.

Allow me to explain. While I do not believe Commando is underpowered, (it is indeed, to say, a balanced perk) at some point in the game the other perks got too advantageous to the point where Commando was left in the dust.

Sharpshooter: Entire arsenal murders Scrakes, can also kill fleshpounds if you can land a headshot. Almost all of the guns will stun or flinch Scrakes on headshot

Support Specialist: Can handle both Scrakes and Fleshpounds, albeit with tricky combos. Still, the neccessary equipment can be attained at reasonable prices. No flinching or stunning shotguns, but the hunting shotgun works as amazing finisher against scrakes and FP.

Berserker: Ridiculous speed and Damage resistance, can stun and flinch scrakes with melee weapons. Super speed and resistance help with FP kite.

Firebug: Thanks to the advent of the flare guns, firebugs can flinchlock scrakes for $300. Husk gun also allows for Scrake takedowns, though not the most optimal method.

Demolitions: Demolitions do struggle against Scrakes, but make up for this with their sheer power of explosives against Fleshpounds. This guy eats Fleshpounds for breakfast. The grenade launchers also flinch scrakes, LAW and Pipebombs stun them.

Medic: Medic has weak smgs that dont do too much damage against scrakes, but like zerks can tank and run super fast. Medics can also carry a variety of offperk weapons with the extra money they have.


Where does that leave Commando?
-like medic, assault rifles do not have power to take down scrakes or fleshpounds

-No kiting or tank bonuses to compensate

-perked arsenal does not contain flinching or stunning weapons against Scrake.


In the current state Commando is the only class gimped against both of the two "big zeds." Hp vision does help with kiting FP and determining scrake rage, but still leaves Commando at a "stalemate" scenario against both of these specimens.

The Commando obviously should not be able to have raw firepower against fleshpounds with auto rifles. In fact most perks except demo cannot confidently face fleshpounds head on all the time. But what about Scrakes?

To take down Scrakes reliably and safely, flinching and/or stunning mechanisms are almost always used. Supports, Medics, and Commandos do not have any perked equipment that do this, so these classes use offperk weapons to fill the gap. However, Commando is shorthanded in that the perk does not have the available weight neccessary without sacrificing its own firepower.

Supports can carry two shotguns and still have plenty of space for an axe.

Medics have plenty of space since two medguns weigh only six blocks.

Commando usually carries two assault rifles, which leaves at most 4 blocks for a weapon to help with Scrakes. This leaves you with the machete, which is extremely risky and unreliable because it requires a headchop, or a katana, which is very expensive at $2000 offperk.

Of course another option is to run with 1 Assault rifle, freeing up more space and options. However, this often forces players to spend multiple waves playing other perks to afford the offperk weapon, or save up.

M14: 2500 offperk, using that money one could purchase SCAR and FAL which both have higher DPS, less recoil, better sights.

Husk Cannon: 4000 offperk, slow and unwieldy against trash

M32: 4000 offperk, risky from self damage

These aren't the entire list of options but are often most common. Should you die while incorporating one of these into your loadout? Good luck trying to obtain another one if you didnt drop it.

Sure if you are rocking that game or have a well funded team you can get your equipment pronto. But most money doesnt start rolling in until the late waves anyway, so throughout the game you will be doing anything and everything to obtain that offperk weapon giving you a fighting chance against the scrake. Not only that, but the weapons listed above can be equally, if not more effective against scrakes in the hands of the perk that weapon belongs to. Why bother taking an M14 with commando if you can take it as a sharp and destroy everything?

In short, the offperk weapon is the dominant element in the loadout, not commando.


Of course it's not that such options make the Commando gamebreakingly bad, or underpowered. Of course not. Commando is extremely efficient against trash specimens and the rifle scopes give it long range capability rivaling that of the sharpshooter.

The disadvantage is not severe enough to where it places commando as an inferior class, but definitely enough to turn off many people from the perk as a viable option on higher difficulty.
 

Grail

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 8, 2015
28
0
0
I guess the advantage that he Commando has is the very cheap ammo, and some very cheap guns. Sure SCAR and FN FAL can get a bit expensive, but only just. It's easy enough to play as a Commando in a team with a Bullpup and spawned AK47.

For later waves, yes - if you are thinking of taking on Scrakes, either because you're "Bleedin' Action Man!" or because you think your team might wipe, then you might need to go big, and the SCAR + FN FAL + Katana can deal with Scrakes reasonably safely. Yes, the katana is off-perk, yes it costs a fair whack, but it's easy enough to dip 1 level into zerk to get it, or ask a nice zerk on your team to buy it for you.

Is Commando balanced against the other perks? Probably not, at the least not when it comes to the big guys, but one thing that i find really useful for Commando that often gets overlooked is the reload bonus. This can allow you to use offperk weapons with greater alacrity then the owner perks can. Granted you don't get the damage output, but that extra speed in reloading makes them pretty good. Being able to reload an M32 in next to no time is fantastic for eg.

Personally, I put the Commando up as my 2nd favourite perk (after Medic). And I tend to use it a fair bit. Commando is also a really good perk for the first bunch of waves for saving money (see my first point).
 

Raisins_Tasty

Member
Mar 11, 2013
125
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I guess the advantage that he Commando has is the very cheap ammo, and some very cheap guns. Sure SCAR and FN FAL can get a bit expensive, but only just. It's easy enough to play as a Commando in a team with a Bullpup and spawned AK47.

For later waves, yes - if you are thinking of taking on Scrakes, either because you're "Bleedin' Action Man!" or because you think your team might wipe, then you might need to go big, and the SCAR + FN FAL + Katana can deal with Scrakes reasonably safely. Yes, the katana is off-perk, yes it costs a fair whack, but it's easy enough to dip 1 level into zerk to get it, or ask a nice zerk on your team to buy it for you.

Is Commando balanced against the other perks? Probably not, at the least not when it comes to the big guys, but one thing that i find really useful for Commando that often gets overlooked is the reload bonus. This can allow you to use offperk weapons with greater alacrity then the owner perks can. Granted you don't get the damage output, but that extra speed in reloading makes them pretty good. Being able to reload an M32 in next to no time is fantastic for eg.

Personally, I put the Commando up as my 2nd favourite perk (after Medic). And I tend to use it a fair bit. Commando is also a really good perk for the first bunch of waves for saving money (see my first point).

Yeah I do love the cheap maintenanace and reload bonuses of Commando. But the sharpshooter and firebug reload bonuses are pretty hefty for their perked weapons as well, and both of those perks are ridiculously cheap to maintain.

ZED time extensions is an overlooked, yet amazing augment to the commando. Bullet time works wonders with the large mags and high fire rate of rifles
 

FluX

Grizzled Veteran
Oct 26, 2010
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You started well and then you went crap. Do remember that Commando is one of my main two perks (other then Sharpshooter) and that all this is my own opinion. I also would like to say I am no small hour guy as i've racked up around 3-4k hours total in KF.

1.) Why on earth are you comparing a trash killer (commando) to a badass killer (sharpshooter/demolition/support specialist) ?

2.) The perk is the most balanced perk in the game. Stop comparing it to the other perks in terms of balance as they are the ones that aren't balanced.

3.) Damage is NOT the target of what a commando focuses on. It's Damage Per Second - The speed he can get the damage out within an accurate amount of time. This is something 90% of people do not understand. If you can take out that siren/husk within a group of 7 and finish off the 7 in single shots all within the few seconds, you're doing your job. If you spray so hard and only hit 2, you're wasting ammo really bad.

4.) I will admit this, you can not take the sc without a risk but you can definitely solo an FP quite easily and without taking a hit. You kite it. If you really must, do it. If not, leave it to the perks designed to take it down.

5.) The perks zed extensions are definitely underestimated (as someone mentioned). You can be 100% accurate on who you focus and kill within them few seconds and think ahead much easier as everything has slowed down. At times, i've even just scouted in a 360 to see what I can do next or if i've missed something. Abuse it while you can!

6.) Just because you have reload speed on all weapons, it does not mean the offperk weapons are better for the perk. In most cases, people say this when they can't use the commando weapons properly.

7.) It's semi cheap once leveled up some. Unlike other perks, the commando is one of the perks I find I do not need to rush for high tier weaponry. I am extremely happy with holding an AK47 the whole game over a second t3 weapon.
 

Raisins_Tasty

Member
Mar 11, 2013
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You started well and then you went crap. Do remember that Commando is one of my main two perks (other then Sharpshooter) and that all this is my own opinion. I also would like to say I am no small hour guy as i've racked up around 3-4k hours total in KF.

1.) Why on earth are you comparing a trash killer (commando) to a badass killer (sharpshooter/demolition/support specialist) ?

2.) The perk is the most balanced perk in the game. Stop comparing it to the other perks in terms of balance as they are the ones that aren't balanced.

3.) Damage is NOT the target of what a commando focuses on. It's Damage Per Second - The speed he can get the damage out within an accurate amount of time. This is something 90% of people do not understand. If you can take out that siren/husk within a group of 7 and finish off the 7 in single shots all within the few seconds, you're doing your job. If you spray so hard and only hit 2, you're wasting ammo really bad.

4.) I will admit this, you can not take the sc without a risk but you can definitely solo an FP quite easily and without taking a hit. You kite it. If you really must, do it. If not, leave it to the perks designed to take it down.

1. Comparing it against all the other perks, including firebug and medic and zerk

2. I never said Commando was underpowered, I did say it is a balanced perk. But when firebugs can flinchlock scrakes for $300 and medic/zerk speedslash everything all the other perks (except maybe demo) have the are broken to some degree.

3. Of course DPS is a commando strength. DPS is more important in this game as a measure of damage output.

4. Yes FP can be kited, it's pretty much your only choice if not a sharpshooter, demo, or support.

5. Agreed.

6. Also agreed. Assault rifles can do almost everything an offperk weapon would do in the hands of a commando, but better.

7. It's cool that commando is semi cheap to maintain but it's not the only perk to do so. Firebug, medic, and sharpshooter all fall in this category as well.
 
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Raisins_Tasty

Member
Mar 11, 2013
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Dealing with FPs and Scrakes is not a job for Commando, simple as that

Dealing with Scrakes and FP was never a job for firebugs but thanks to some of the new equipment like flares things firebugs are right up there and can take them down in an emergency safely, because flinchlock.
 

DirtySpartan

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 15, 2012
924
4
0
Netherlands
Commando doesn't really excel in anything. Its only saving grace is zed time extensions. Anything else can be done better by any other perk.

I'd ask for a buff but its a bit late to give one.
 

vealck

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 19, 2009
2,815
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First off, who buys weapons offperk? What's the problem to play one wave as a different perk?

You can use anti-sc combo as commando. Predamage to the point of raging, stop sc in his tracks by katana flinch, unload a full FAL/SCAR mag to the head. Can be done flawlessly, if you're a bit sloppy, you'll get 5-10 damage.

Also, you can use SCAR + Xbow to slowrage scrakes, if you don't mind using an exploit.

Oh, and I forgot, M14 flinchlock.

For the fleshpounds: two hand grenades and full mag from M32 will kill 6man health hoe fleshpound before it even finishes rage animation. You can also make it one hand grenade + M32 mag + finish with rifle.

And finally - if you don't master those techniques or don't want to use those loadouts - just leave the big guys to other players, as most commandos do :)
 
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poosh

Grizzled Veteran
Jan 6, 2011
3,389
326
83
Commando supposed to be trash-killing king and isn't supposed to take out SC and FP in any cases but emergency. It is almost perfectly balanced. Other perks/weapons are OP though:
1) Flare revolvers have too high impact damage.
2) Sharpshooter can do crowd control too easily (Semi-auto xbow, Musket, HC+MK23 or even MK23 alone).
3) Berserker is just OP in every gameplay aspect.
 

Raisins_Tasty

Member
Mar 11, 2013
125
0
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Commando supposed to be trash-killing king and isn't supposed to take out SC and FP in any cases but emergency. It is almost perfectly balanced. Other perks/weapons are OP though:
1) Flare revolvers have too high impact damage.
2) Sharpshooter can do crowd control too easily (Semi-auto xbow, Musket, HC+MK23 or even MK23 alone).
3) Berserker is just OP in every gameplay aspect.

Totally agree with this post.
 

Rainman89

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 8, 2015
537
0
0
First off, who buys weapons offperk?

Alot of people buy weapons offperk. Examples: a Support specialist can use a Melee weapon to stun a scrake than immediately crouch and uppercut a scrake with the hunting shotgun. The zerker benefits using ranged weapons to kill trash the LAR can instakill a Crawler which are annoying trash to begin with and the Siren can be scream cancled with ranged weapons the 9mm is nice but the MK23 or HC delivers more damage the Flare Rev is good for kiting FPs.
 

naksiloth

Member
Dec 29, 2010
429
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Commandos have a large amount of key usages in the game but only little of players base realize that and put them in use. Commando is a balanced class and can abuse a few well known mechanics in game, but ONLY for the team's sake unlike other perks who are selfish and have optimized survival.
Minimalizing the recoil (by the means of crouching and going down on iron sights), watching your accuracy and unleashing a bullet barrage is the most fun thing in the game, yet useful at the same time.

1.) Commandos are there for pest control. They make up for their piercing power by overwhelming their targets with a rain of bullets that each open holes as large as a fist. Go take a look at Bullpup, Dr.T's L.D.S or R.S. Tommy gun; you'll see what I mean.
2.) They can keep a hole up point safe while team's zerker is out there pulling aggro on himself and leaving you one man short in the point which makes your team pretty vulnerable against trash zeds.
3.) Commandos can kill and decap up to middle ranged threats like Husks and Sirens pretty quickly. M4 or Bullpup can keep Sirens silenced, and FNFAL or SCAR can decap both of them with small bursts to head from long range. They can cancel Sirens with any rifle, but it's advised to crouch down on a higher obstacle in environment to evade Husk fire.
4.) Commandos can decap Bloats or Gorefasts or stun Stalkers or Clots letting the incoming horde stapled together behind them, which creates opportunity for Support Specialist, Firebug or Demolition to clear the scene.
5.) Commandos can kill Scrakes with enough range or using some melee weapon flinch tricks. FNFAL or SCAR deals 2650 damage from headshot within' a full magazine. That's like 90% of a 6-man HoE Scrake's headhealth.
6.) Commandos can abuse their reload bonus with rather cheap items. A Lever-action Rifle will reload and shoot 35% faster, and it hits harder than any of your battle rifles with a generous headshot multiplier of 2.0x. Even a regular Shotgun, an offperk medic rifle or ZED Mk.2 could be more useful if you're not planning to change perks.
If you want M14 or M32 you change perks, if you really want a challenge you stick to the cheap but effective stuff.
7.) Commandos never meant to attack a slow paced Fleshpound but they can really lend a hand when Fleshpound is attacking one of teammates.
7.a.) Commando clear the pest or Sirens behind the raging or slowpaced Fleshpound, but for this they have to get close and remember Fleshpounds attack anything at close proximity once enraged. Also don't forget the ZED time expansions when you really need to land that hit on that Siren or Husk to prevent chaos.
7.b.) Shooting from a different angle, provided that they have enough distance and are not behind the teammate; Commando can poke Fleshpound with any of their Assault Rifles when they're "about to" smack the face of a teammate in a focus fire scenery.
That will confuse them, and cause them to spread the damage ticks (their attacks are not single ticks, headshots advised) which results in less damage to their main target. Be careful not to enrage them on the main target again. In case you did, wait for them to get close again before opening fire or next smackdown will be with you in 3 seconds.
 
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vealck

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 19, 2009
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Alot of people buy weapons offperk. Examples: a Support specialist can use a Melee weapon to stun a scrake than immediately crouch and uppercut a scrake with the hunting shotgun. The zerker benefits using ranged weapons to kill trash the LAR can instakill a Crawler which are annoying trash to begin with and the Siren can be scream cancled with ranged weapons the 9mm is nice but the MK23 or HC delivers more damage the Flare Rev is good for kiting FPs.

It seems you didn't read the rest of my post. There were examples of using offperk weapons described by me there. My question is, who actually pays 2500 for EBR or 4000 for M32 instead going sharp/demo for a one wave to buy them at discount.
 

Rainman89

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 8, 2015
537
0
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It seems you didn't read the rest of my post. There were examples of using offperk weapons described by me there. My question is, who actually pays 2500 for EBR or 4000 for M32 instead going sharp/demo for a one wave to buy them at discount.

Ok that makes sense my bad.
 

Grail

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 8, 2015
28
0
0
6.) Just because you have reload speed on all weapons, it does not mean the offperk weapons are better for the perk. In most cases, people say this when they can't use the commando weapons properly.

Or, you know... fun.
People like taking whacky loadouts for a bit of diversity and therefore a bit of different fun. Commandos with their reload bonus make this much easier to do, because it's not going to take you forever to reload that m32 or dual flare revolvers.

Also, I played Commando in HoE Stronghold once and my loadout was the FN FAL and that was it. I carried an extra M32 for the Demo. I played a very supportive role, killing Sirens and Husks or speed reloading the M32 that the Demo would drop when he finished with it. Worked well. A different type of role, but an interesting one. He'd pop all 6 nades, drop it, I'd chuck him the fully loaded one, pick up the empty and reload. This way he was always ready to go if a FP turned up.
 

infntnub

Grizzled Veteran
Sep 25, 2012
2,300
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I am amongst the KF population that accepts what the Commando is (and what they excel at) - trash killing.

Yes, along the way other perks have been granted means to handle the FP/Scrakes more comfortably - flare revolvers keep getting brought up as an example of this. The fact that such options have not presented themselves to the Commando perk does not leave me wanting for more in the least.

If you do the perk's job and keep the trash off the sharpie/demo (or whoever the teammate is that is dealing with these larger zeds) you will not need a manner in which to handle these monsters. Personally, I roll out with a musket and bullpup 90% of the time when I'm playing mando - I couldn't be happier while mowing down waves of gorefasts, clots, and crawlers.

When you find your team is lacking suitable firepower to deal with FP/Scrakes - it's time to switch perks between waves. I also accept this, there's no problem there. A trash killer shouldn't necessarily be capable of dealing with larger zeds.

One of the perks has to be the weakest against FP/Scrakes - it just so happened to be Commando.
 

Althamus

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 13, 2012
1,287
21
0
To put my oar in, commando is arguably the best perk for taking down trash mobs. He can fight at short or long ranges, he can put zeds down quickly (one in the head and two in the chest will take down anything south of a bloat pretty instantly), he can fire quickly and (assuming you're aiming for headshots) he can fire significantly faster than you can aim. He has massive magasines.

Yes, he had a significant weakness in that he can't put down the big nasties. But on the flip side, he can easily hold back trash on one front by himself, letting more allies do something else and reducing the probability of the front breaking.