This do i mean with 2 x zoom....

[clench]

By lowering your overall field of view while decreasing the apparent distance of the objects at the center of your vision.

Which is what the definition of zoom is, really.

You are wrong. It has been explained many, many many many many many times on this forum especially during the beta. It is not zoom, it appears to be zoom because people are so conditioned from previous gameplay experience. But it is just a function to allow you to see the environment at the same level of detail an actual human would be able to. In real life you would be able to see at the same level of detail during the "zoom" without having to zoom, and it would be a full 180 degrees.

The problem is, is that this is A VIDEO GAME and things can't be EXACTLY like real life. So the "zoom", or more accurately, the FOCUS feature is a compromise.

 

[Proud_God]

I'm kinda on the fence regarding zoom. On the one hand, I fully understand it is not actual zoom in the sense the human eye always operates on this 'zoom' level. Thus, it allows us to hit targets at realistics ranges.

On the other hand, there is the fact that players only achieve this (realistic) zoom level when they are aiming (or using the zoom button, which is in essence the same: you are not moving). This has impications on gameplay: namely, when you are running around, you see much less detail than the stationary guy aiming (at you). This creates an artificial effect where it appears players have sniper rifles.

So, maybe, in trying to make something more realistic (introducing zoom), but not being able to go all the way (you do not have zoom all the time), we are left with something artificial that is worse than before (having no zoom at all).

I'm not sure yet...

 

[Mekhazzio]

It's not even a realistic level of zoom. The human eye has far higher contrast distinction than top of the line computer monitors have resolution. If you work the math out, to approximate 20/20 vision, the zoom would have to be six to eight times stronger, depending on your monitor. At current settings, everyone is badly nearsighted.

If you were stuck at a no-zoom level of vision in real life, you'd probably be counted as legally blind without vision correction. The zoom in the game is a very conservative concession to try to get more realistic engagement ranges in the game.

 

[OnCrack]

You are wrong. It has been explained many, many many many many many times on this forum especially during the beta. It is not zoom, it appears to be zoom because people are so conditioned from previous gameplay experience. But it is just a function to allow you to see the environment at the same level of detail an actual human would be able to. In real life you would be able to see at the same level of detail during the "zoom" without having to zoom, and it would be a full 180 degrees.

The problem is, is that this is A VIDEO GAME and things can't be EXACTLY like real life. So the "zoom", or more accurately, the FOCUS feature is a compromise.

I can agree on the realism concept, but as you said this is a videogame and, well the problem is that I can't zoom like that when I am walking or running with a gun (aka assaulting) and even if I could it would look awful, it results in unrealistic difficult to spot targets and the obvious advantage of camping over moving around cover, they can see you but you can't unless you stop and zoom like them, a no zoom/low zoom perspective instead is closer to reality in my opinion because it gives everyone the same chance to spot the enemy.
The result is that shooting is more important and deadly than manouvering or flanking, which worked so well in RO:Ost even if it could have been unrealistic under that point of view. In RO you had to conceal yourself in order to not get spot, here you can stay at distance and zoom in.
In RO I was aware that as the enemy could see me so did I, we had the same chances of spotting each other, in RO2 we don't, because I have to move around and assault while the enemy defends.

What happens in RO2 is that as soon as your head pops out of cover you get shot, I get the feeling like 32 scoped rifles are pointing towards me with red dots, because that is what it is, 2x zoomed in rifles looking for the prey without the chance to notice them. The whole result (adding the no recoil, no sway, fast IS mode on top of that) is that weapons are very very deadly against attackers.

I fear that this is what is killing the war (instead of war-movie, as someone can remember) feeling for me, it's too bloody easy to shoot.

 

[SnowyOak]

I thought the shift key zooming was to bring everything in the game to the same scale, among all weapons. It's not meant to be a zoom, but a focus. This is why the ironsights view with a pistol is much broader then the ironsights view with a rifle before you hold shift; the rifle is meant to be used at a longer range while the pistol is for CQC situations and needs to allow more field view then focused view.

However, when you hold shift the "zoom" effect normalizes for both guns, creating the exact same scale no matter what weapon you're using, assuming it isn't scoped.

 

[TexRoadkill]

On the other hand, there is the fact that players only achieve this (realistic) zoom level when they are aiming (or using the zoom button, which is in essence the same: you are not moving). This has impications on gameplay: namely, when you are running around, you see much less detail than the stationary guy aiming (at you). This creates an artificial effect where it appears players have sniper rifles.

You can "zoom" at any time by hitting Shift.

 

[OnTheGun]

So, maybe, in trying to make something more realistic (introducing zoom), but not being able to go all the way (you do not have zoom all the time), we are left with something artificial that is worse than before (having no zoom at all).

I'm not sure yet...

On the one hand, you have the 'camp and snipe' people saying the lack of sway makes the game unrealistic, even if it is accurately representing the real capabilities, because it allows people running in the open to suddenly stop and lay down effective fire.

On the other hand you have 'run and gun' types saying the "zoom" feature makes it easier to get long range shots as if you were a sniper.

Funnily enough, realism IS balanced. It's just not the way you're expecting it to be because of other games doing it wrong.

The standard infantry tactic if you come under fire is to stop, double tap, THEN seek cover. That is real. Snipers don't like it, but it's true. Likewise, standard infantry skills mean that any soldier using the standard rifle should be able to hit a running man at 300m easily. The Rambos don't like that, but it's true.

A realistic tactical shooter is balanced not by gimping weapons, but by making all the weapons as realistic as possible so that all the realistic tactics that apply to them work in the game. As soon as you gimp one weapon, you start to have to gimp the others, or change game mechanics to compensate.

 

[clench]

I can agree on the realism concept, but as you said this is a videogame and, well the problem is that I can't zoom like that when I am walking or running with a gun (aka assaulting) and even if I could it would look awful, it results in unrealistic difficult to spot targets and the obvious advantage of camping over moving around cover, they can see you but you can't unless you stop and zoom like them, a no zoom/low zoom perspective instead is closer to reality in my opinion because it gives everyone the same chance to spot the enemy.
The result is that shooting is more important and deadly than manouvering or flanking, which worked so well in RO:Ost even if it could have been unrealistic under that point of view. In RO you had to conceal yourself in order to not get spot, here you can stay at distance and zoom in.
In RO I was aware that as the enemy could see me so did I, we had the same chances of spotting each other, in RO2 we don't, because I have to move around and assault while the enemy defends.

What happens in RO2 is that as soon as your head pops out of cover you get shot, I get the feeling like 32 scoped rifles are pointing towards me with red dots, because that is what it is, 2x zoomed in rifles looking for the prey without the chance to notice them. The whole result (adding the no recoil, no sway, fast IS mode on top of that) is that weapons are very very deadly against attackers.

I fear that this is what is killing the war (instead of war-movie, as someone can remember) feeling for me, it's too bloody easy to shoot.

This is another misconception from years of gaming. Every game in the past has had guns laughably inaccurate with unrealistic levels of sway or worse, bullet randomization.

In real life, if you pop your head out of cover, even for a second, YOU WILL DIE. Guns are deadly and accurate. We don't design guns to be not accurate and not deadly. You would be hard pressed to find soldier anywhere in the world who COULDN'T near instantly hit a target inside of 200m. Guns are just too deadly and accurate, while at the same time designed for use well outside the range in which 95-99% of the combat in RO2 takes place. Campers always have the advantage in real life, that is why single shooters can hold up entire platoons of men. If you're going against a well prepared, well trained and experienced riflemen, you are going to get shot.

 

[Keith Moons Liver]

In real life, if you pop your head out of cover, even for a second, YOU WILL DIE.

If you die as soon as you stick your head out, who is shooting at you if they also die as soon as they stick their heads out?

 

[OnCrack]

Of course you only respond to the 'no sway no recoil' comment and fail too see the whole point of the post that was about zooming, and the uneven chances that derive from having it like this.

Nobody said anything about weapon accuracy, I was talking about zooming and the compromise RO:Ost decided to adopt to ensure a realistic war feeling, because that is what you aim for in a ww2 game, no weapon is gonna move like in real life or behave like in real life, you gotta find the right combination of features that give you the war feeling. In red orchestra the rifles were very accurate to be honest, it just took some time to go into iron sight mode which is close to reality, you don't instantly go into IS and aim down the sights while running as it happens in the game, they also added sway to compensate the fact that the range was limited due to engine capability, and the recoil you had to compensate with your mouse (see the official tutorial) was there to simulate that you have to keep the weapon steady while shooting, all of this may not be realistic taken one by one, but they made for a great war experience as a whole, at least for me, or for you if you have ever played the original (or the only) red orchestra game.

With no zoom/low zoom, you are more aware of the surroundings like in real life, with high 2x zoom it's like living in a bubble and you realise the rest of the world when pressing shift, that's what I meant and you failed to understand, even though it was a simple concept.