This Berserker nerf is absurd.

[Senario]

I'm inclined to disagree on that.

Watch any selection of pub matches on Sui to HoE where the team lacks a Berserker. Be sure and take a few select screenshots when the double FP shows up - after we've had a good look at the screenshots, then we'll see whether the Berserker is simply an "option" post-1013.

circumstantial evidence not really true evidence as to whether it is an option or not. This is an absolutely silly argument as you could simply exchange berserker with any other useful perk and say "Hey look it is too strong you need this perk". Should I be taking a few select screenshots when a commando decaps a scrake in one SCAR clip? How about firebug burning Crowd control (making FP panic?

Zerker was and still is an OPTION. A popular option, but an option none the less. It shouldn't have had its damage nerfed and zweihander nerfed as well when they could've just increased the cost of zweihander and added a non pay 2 win alternative such as the fireaxe. (Making both T4 melee weapons).

 

[VastSpartan]

circumstantial evidence not really true evidence as to whether it is an option or not. This is an absolutely silly argument as you could simply exchange berserker with any other useful perk and say "Hey look it is too strong you need this perk". Should I be taking a few select screenshots when a commando decaps a scrake in one SCAR clip? How about firebug burning Crowd control (making FP panic?

Zerker was and still is an OPTION. A popular option, but an option none the less. It shouldn't have had its damage nerfed and zweihander nerfed as well when they could've just increased the cost of zweihander and added a non pay 2 win alternative such as the fireaxe. (Making both T4 melee weapons).

The smash damage should just have been reduced to 50% damage and the Zwei price upped. The alternative fire axe is a nice idea. But that Fire axe might need to be a huge one or have a sick look. These as an example

 

[ScrakeMorgendorffer]

circumstantial evidence not really true evidence as to whether it is an option or not. This is an absolutely silly argument as you could simply exchange berserker with any other useful perk and say "Hey look it is too strong you need this perk". Should I be taking a few select screenshots when a commando decaps a scrake in one SCAR clip? How about firebug burning Crowd control (making FP panic?

Zerker was and still is an OPTION. A popular option, but an option none the less. It shouldn't have had its damage nerfed and zweihander nerfed as well when they could've just increased the cost of zweihander and added a non pay 2 win alternative such as the fireaxe. (Making both T4 melee weapons).

Zerk didn't take a hit against FP effectiveness with the Pulv - the number of shots to kill an FP remains approximately the same.

The Zwei was stronger than every other weapon in the game regardless of its price, factoring in Smash and the pre-1015 damage values. It was the only weapon in the game that could decap SC and FP alike on the hardest difficulty in a paltry amount of time. Overhand attacks against FP, level 25 Berserker could decap a FP in 4 shots - including the KD for headshots, and assuming you could land a headshot whilst the FP was trying to get up, would render the FP a non-issue an any team with a good, competent Berserker. It could destroy SC in precious few swings also.

I fail to understand why simply increasing the dosh price of this weapon is suddenly going to normalise whatever balance issues you're ignoring to begin with. Changing the Zwei price from 1000 dosh to 1500 isn't going to make it less viable - how many times as a Zerk have you gone from wave 1 to 4, given your AR money to the medic in wave 1, and still been able to buy either a Zwei or a Pulv by the start of wave 4?

The money is not a balancing item if the weapon is clearly stronger in all cases.

Now, back to the "pls watch actual games and tell me Berserker isn't an option" - to call what actually happens in-game in public matches, day in, day out "circumstantial evidence" and not regard it as having any merit is to disregard the reality of the situation.

 

[Savage Rodent]

People will always decide on a best class and a worst class. You're kidding yourself if you think you'll change that. The concern should be if a class is majorly OP or UP compared to the other classes. There is a "close enough".

Right now I can't be sure if it's "close enough." It isn't possible to achieve perfect balance, but I think it's worth trying. I would honestly rather have on release berserker instead, with better skills, but I feel like the only person who wants that.

False equivalence on the "if OP doesn't matter, UP doesn't matter". I urge you to look it up. A perk being too strong is not a problem however a perk being too weak is definitely a problem in any co-op game. You're making an argument which has no basis in good game design for the type of game made. In a competitive game it is an issue if a choice is too strong because then the game ends up REVOLVING around that particular thing at the detriment to other competing players. However in a PvE game this doesn't happen as you are not fighting other players (thus making the game un-fun for them) you are fighting against a computer. People who complain about other perks being stronger than their perk of choice really are just saying they want to be the new top dog when it is NOT a competition. The goal is to finish the game through any means necessary. Not to be the one with the biggest e-peen on the team.

People gravitating to one perk means it is POPULAR not that it is OP necessarily. And because it is popular you may think other perks are obsolete when really they aren't at all. If you wanted an opinion of what was balanced it would be Release Support, Release commando, Rework Berserker, release medic, for the starter classes. I do not have a comment on FB, GS, and Demo yet as they are too new.

Every perk was viable and it was ALWAYS a choice. A full team of berserkers post rework would've fallen on its face. A good mix of gun classes such as support, commando, medic, and firebug as well as zerker is a HEALTHY GAME. What you're arguing is that having a berserker, medic, and gun classes for the rest of the team is not "every perk is viable" and not overshadowing each other. It is strange that you would argue this as this is exactly what you said you wanted. And that is laughable because you have pretty much your choice of class much like KF1 it is definitely NOT REQUIRED to bring a Zerker after rework. It was simply a popular strategy due to faulty AI and Medic armor healing bugs.

Alright, so you're on the "either it's viable or unviable" train. Say if something is unviable instead of UP, because you can't have something UP, but nothing OP. Makes no sense.

Now, I'm assuming with this in mind you wouldn't care if in the next update berserker got buffed again and now has 400% increased health and 2% damage resistance per level. I mean, nothing can be overpowered right?

 

[VastSpartan]

Oooo boy, we having another "Berserker is OP thread"?. That s*** went on for weeks with 404 comments.
Savage Rodent went on tirade in there. Face it, you hate berserker. That's my only assumption. You still think Berserker is "OP"

 

[ScrakeMorgendorffer]

The Berserker nerf has had basically no impact on the ability of this perk to deal with FP, regarding Pulv. With ammoless Pulv, SC takes more shots to decap than Zwei did, but it was arguably too quick for a perk that's good at a variety of tasks.

How many other perks can safely say [regarding pre-1015 Berserker] that they could dispatch FP, SC and trash all with the one weapon on even the highest difficulty, 6-player?

The only weapon pre-1015 that was capable of doing that task in a timely fashion was the Zwei - the next closest, probably the MWG.

Given that Sharpshooter is likely to be the go-to perk for SC removal, why should Zerk not move aside a little for SS to fill that role when it's ready?

 

[VastSpartan]

The Berserker nerf has had basically no impact on the ability of this perk to deal with FP, regarding Pulv. With ammoless Pulv, SC takes more shots to decap than Zwei did, but it was arguably too quick for a perk that's good at a variety of tasks.

How many other perks can safely say [regarding pre-1015 Berserker] that they could dispatch FP, SC and trash all with the one weapon on even the highest difficulty, 6-player?

The only weapon pre-1015 that was capable of doing that task in a timely fashion was the Zwei - the next closest, probably the MWG.

Given that Sharpshooter is likely to be the go-to perk for SC removal, why should Zerk not move aside a little for SS to fill that role when it's ready?

I can assume that every class should be able to really solo scrakes now (this version of kf). Every class has skills to achieve them.

 

[Nenga]

Given that Sharpshooter is likely to be the go-to perk for SC removal, why should Zerk not move aside a little for SS to fill that role when it's ready?

Sharpshooter wasn't the only answer to a scrake in KF1. Berserker wasn't bad at it, firebug could do some damage with the husk launcher (the husk launcher would also stun him), support had some good damage with his shotguns, demo had his high powered weapons, and if the commando was smart about it he could take out a scrake too.

Now that I think about it that's pretty much everyone.

 

[ScrakeMorgendorffer]

Sharpshooter wasn't the only answer to a scrake in KF1. Berserker wasn't bad at it, firebug could do some damage with the husk launcher (the husk launcher would also stun him), support had some good damage with his shotguns, demo had his high powered weapons, and if the commando was smart about it he could take out a scrake too.

Now that I think about it that's pretty much everyone.

Sharpshooter was the quickest and most effective way of dealing with SC though.

In this game, the quickest and most effective way of dealing with SC, even pre-1015 is two players dealing co-ordinated damage - not Zwei Berserkers.

Why we're still having this discussion months after the outset of EA, I'll never understand. It's not supposed to be about perk vs perk - it's supposed to be co-operative, for god's sake.

 

[VastSpartan]

I still don't mind every class handling a scrake solo. Even demos

 

[Savage Rodent]

Oooo boy, we having another "Berserker is OP thread"?. That s*** went on for weeks with 404 comments.
Savage Rodent went on tirade in there. Face it, you hate berserker. That's my only assumption. You still think Berserker is "OP"

I don't hate the perk, I just don't want it overshadowing the other perks. It's actually my favorite perk, next to support. Berserker was the first perk I leveled to 25, and that was all before InD update. With the direction the perks are going now, berserker will probably be the best perk come release. I can't deny that.

Now what I don't like is how the movement speed is handled. A slow perk should be able to move faster sprinting than a fast moving perk not sprinting. Honestly, it's pretty trivial but it makes no sense to me. But I digress.

 

[Shining Wolf]

As someone who only really plays zerker now, I'd like to say that I'm happy that I can't take them out solo, or rather, quickly enough to not have other zeds cause problems. I do like that it requires other people shooting them to have them be taken out efficiently. My issue is that scrake and fp aggro seems to randomly switch to other people a lot of the time and if they're running towards someone else, I can't intercept in time usually. Also, I'm in a position where I'm ready to parry an attack and they pull out some unblockable attack garbage with the same attack speed and apparently no other tells to know I should have run, I'm pretty much going to eat damage unless I was trying to kite and hit them already just because they decided to use a different attack.

 

[Senario]

Right now I can't be sure if it's "close enough." It isn't possible to achieve perfect balance, but I think it's worth trying. I would honestly rather have on release berserker instead, with better skills, but I feel like the only person who wants that.



Alright, so you're on the "either it's viable or unviable" train. Say if something is unviable instead of UP, because you can't have something UP, but nothing OP. Makes no sense.

Now, I'm assuming with this in mind you wouldn't care if in the next update berserker got buffed again and now has 400% increased health and 2% damage resistance per level. I mean, nothing can be overpowered right?

No, this whole response is a hasty generalization or Inductive Fallacy. I'm in the camp that every class should have SOMETHING good about them that they can do better than other classes. For example I was fine with release Support despite players stacking support for ammo and AA-12, I was fine with Release Firebug because it was a really interesting playstyle (though unconventional) that was highly effective, And of course commando is still good because you can decap a scrake with one SCAR clip.

What you're arguing is that "Oh you say this therefore I'm going to take your idea to the extreme and call you wrong". Berserker was fine post rework and didn't need Smash to be so heavily nerfed. (you will have to note that zweihander major use came later) To argue that I'm saying we should give any class much higher stats is simply wrong.

You can argue all day for Zweihander but based on the influx of people complaining about it I would wager it is in part due to how you had to buy a seperate game. That doesn't mean Nerf Smash, that means if it really is too much of a problem and P2W up the price or find some other way to change balance without harming other parts of berserker that really weren't a problem (there was no problems with pulverizer before). Maybe change the speed of stabs or swings to be slower, it is a high power weapon.

Your claim that "I don't hate zerker, Zerker is one of my favorite classes" Is a complete deflection with very little supporting evidence. That is like saying "I don't hate ______, I have many friends that are _____" completely quantifiable and we're supposed to take you at your word when you went on a rampage on "Berserker is OP how do we FIX it" topic. Implying it was not ok in the first place, I was relaxed when they said they were looking into non-numbers solutions but that clearly didn't happen.

The nerf to smash is ridiculous when there could have been many other options to take. Clearly I am against most nerfs because I liked the specialization of KF1 where everybody had something extremely good to work with. That said, while my favorite "solution" is to up the price, I'm by no means adverse to small changes such as making Zweihander swings slightly slower (as most of the complaints around berserker revolve around this weapon and NOT the pulverizer). This would lower DPS which affects kill time while keeping the rest of the perk in-tact.

Nerfing Smash is where I draw the line as all the other weapons of berserker were absolutely NOT AN ISSUE. Pulv had a 2 second (approx) after heavy hit animation, Crovel was not strong enough at its base to be a problem, and of course you have the ranged weapons which are very much not usable due to their base mechanics. The amount of ammo you waste for damage plus the reload time is silly as Zeds move a lot faster in this game.

They took a Machete to the perk when they should've used a scalpel.

 

[Savage Rodent]

What you're arguing is that "Oh you say this therefore I'm going to take your idea to the extreme and call you wrong". Berserker was fine post rework and didn't need Smash to be so heavily nerfed. (you will have to note that zweihander major use came later) To argue that I'm saying we should give any class much higher stats is simply wrong.

That's exactly what I'm doing. I'm testing your way of thinking about balance by giving an example. Instead of giving an answer, you dodge the question and judge how I'm going about explaining and pointing out the flaws in that way of thinking. Yes it doesn't make sense to give a perk that much higher of stats, but why is it that way? I mean, it isn't going to be overpowered now it it?

Your claim that "I don't hate zerker, Zerker is one of my favorite classes" Is a complete deflection with very little supporting evidence. That is like saying "I don't hate ______, I have many friends that are _____" completely quantifiable and we're supposed to take you at your word when you went on a rampage on "Berserker is OP how do we FIX it" topic. Implying it was not ok in the first place, I was relaxed when they said they were looking into non-numbers solutions but that clearly didn't happen.

Then stop making assumptions about me since they are just as empty. Me replying to a thread complaining about the nerf and saying it's fine and trying to justify it makes me hate the perk? Plus making assumptions about me doesn't contribute to the discussion and is essentially attacking me and saying everything I say is irrelevant because I despise a perk.

The nerf to smash is ridiculous when there could have been many other options to take. Clearly I am against most nerfs because I liked the specialization of KF1 where everybody had something extremely good to work with. That said, while my favorite "solution" is to up the price, I'm by no means adverse to small changes such as making Zweihander swings slightly slower (as most of the complaints around berserker revolve around this weapon and NOT the pulverizer). This would lower DPS which affects kill time while keeping the rest of the perk in-tact.

Not gonna lie, zwei swings should be slower. I wouldn't object to that. However, smash was a ridiculous skill, adding 100% damage to heavy attack and causing stumble made large zeds a cake walk. Face it, berserker was good at killing everything and had very little weaknesses compared to other perks.

They took a Machete to the perk when they should've used a scalpel.

That's what I feel with the buff they gave to berserker in the InD update. They gave steroids instead of a little "pick-me-up."

 

[Senario]

That's exactly what I'm doing. I'm testing your way of thinking about balance by giving an example. Instead of giving an answer, you dodge the question and judge how I'm going about explaining and pointing out the flaws in that way of thinking. Yes it doesn't make sense to give a perk that much higher of stats, but why is it that way? I mean, it isn't going to be overpowered now it it?




Then stop making assumptions about me since they are just as empty. Me replying to a thread complaining about the nerf and saying it's fine and trying to justify it makes me hate the perk? Plus making assumptions about me doesn't contribute to the discussion and is essentially attacking me and saying everything I say is irrelevant because I despise a perk.



Not gonna lie, zwei swings should be slower. I wouldn't object to that. However, smash was a ridiculous skill, adding 100% damage to heavy attack and causing stumble made large zeds a cake walk. Face it, berserker was good at killing everything and had very little weaknesses compared to other perks.



That's what I feel with the buff they gave to berserker in the InD update. They gave steroids instead of a little "pick-me-up."

It is laughable that you feel the need to "test my thinking" rather than addressing the topic. I did not dodge it, I addressed what I thought about the perk, the changes, and what are some possible Solutions. And you accuse me of attacking you for pointing out your faulty logic and reasoning when you have no evidence to support the claim that you like berserker. Yes, what you say is EVIDENCE for the beliefs you hold. Saying you don't hold those beliefs when the evidence is against you is just lying. If a politician did something and was later cited for what he did it is widely accepted that what he did is evidence for his attitude and not what he is saying, people are pathological liars. (did in this case meaning voting record though it can be easily exchanged with ideas people put out in the RECENT past).

To say "Smash was ridiculous I mean LOOK AT THAT 100% damage" yeah? And? Look at the weapons smash was balanced around. Crovel, not an issue. Both Evicerator and Nail gun do not have "hard hits" so those aren't affected. The Pulverizer which in addition to the wind up time for the swing, it also has about 2 seconds after you land a hit before you are able to start the next one. 5 shots of ammo and a 3 second reload time approx. Count that up and...effective kill time is really low. 2 seconds after each hit. Taking the fact that apparently it takes more than 5 hits now to kill a big zed that means without counting the time you spend positioning yourself or swinging you would take at least 13 seconds of down time to effectively kill an enemy ignoring any real world situation where you can't always follow up immediately as you have to dodge.

Meanwhile in Commando and Firebug land. Commando can decap in one clip of a SCAR for a scrake, that takes about maybe 6-7 seconds uninterrupted and that is being generous as it probably takes less time. You don't need to count the reload because based on a perfect playing metric a commando can take it out that fast. Firebug can take out FP no problem with its fire stumbles though admittedly I have not tested firebug for optimal play after the latest patch as there are other things which to test out or play.

What I'm saying is, By the numbers and in a vacuum people think "Look at those numbers they are too high" when in reality there are just as good things on other classes which I don't think any sane person would say "Hey lets get that nerfed". I mean, in a world where you don't want any class to be able to solo a big zed shouldn't Commando's Scrake decapping count under that? But clearly, when it comes to berserker it is a very different story. I'm not for getting good parts of other classes getting nerfed, I've said this before to be clear, what I am pointing out is the hypocrisy in many people's comments by pointing out just berserker when other classes had good things and likely should have kept them or still have them.

It is one thing to claim Smash is OP when all you really wanted is Zweihander to not be a Pay 2 win item as Smash was clearly balanced with every other weapon in the class. A fair criticism, though one I think could be fixed with price increases and animation changes first before changes to numbers, changes to numbers should ONLY affect zweihander. Or in the case that the weapon is fine after these changes and people are still upset it is a pay 2 get item (nevermind that usually somebody will have it) then make an alternative with a different skin, maybe a fireaxe. Again, taking a machete when you need a scalpel. You can't honestly believe they "buffed berserker too much" on InD release but then say "everything is fine" when smash is reduced to 1/4th effectiveness, Health goes down to have less max health with armor than medic, and Zweihander hitbox gets nerfed. The 1/4th effectiveness is already a red flag for overnerfing.

 

[Gallic_Taffer]

After reading the thread and doing some introspection of my inner tosspot, I'd like to conclude that the Smash nerf is a temporary one.

Let's start with what made the zerker too good. The health boost and smash. Those skills are his best, no question. Parry and Vampire couldn't even hold a candle to them. The temporary nerf is appreciated, as it ensures the zerkwall doesn't (entirely) ruin HoE, and keeps the zerk from being the uncontested best perk in the game while TWI hammers out (I hope) a larger balance patch. Zerk was ALWAYS the best perk of KF1, and that never changed, and it always irked me.

But then it comes down to what is to be done with the zerk. This comes back to a fundamental flaw in the skills, a small one though. Parrying and blocking, that is, rhythm in melee combat, needs to be encouraged, needs to be the optimal way to use zerker, as opposed to wild swinging. Parrying and blocking are what give the perk its zest and uniqueness; the way he performs his best should reflect that.

I'm about to make some enemies here, but TWI should take a glance at the skill trees of the classes from XCOM, where certain levels offered simply one, but one very useful option for the perk. It would be best if Parry and Smash were simply combined and left at that, since nothing could top it. Parrying successfully gives the zerk a BIG damage boost (back to 100%) and a guaranteed knockdown chance on the next power attack, so long as the KD isn't on cooldown. This encourages the gameplay style TWI had in mind for the Zerk, as it rewards talented play and balances out Smash in a manner that doesn't require incessant number tweaking.

 

[VastSpartan]

I just want smash buffed to 50% and my Zwei a big hitter. Not just a trash killer.

Also the other perk "Parry" should have a knock down function with 100% attack bonus when succesfull.

 

[Savage Rodent]

It is laughable that you feel the need to "test my thinking" rather than addressing the topic. I did not dodge it, I addressed what I thought about the perk, the changes, and what are some possible Solutions. And you accuse me of attacking you for pointing out your faulty logic and reasoning when you have no evidence to support the claim that you like berserker. Yes, what you say is EVIDENCE for the beliefs you hold. Saying you don't hold those beliefs when the evidence is against you is just lying. If a politician did something and was later cited for what he did it is widely accepted that what he did is evidence for his attitude and not what he is saying, people are pathological liars. (did in this case meaning voting record though it can be easily exchanged with ideas people put out in the RECENT past).

Again, the "evidence" to support the claim that I hate berserker is me wanting and justifying the nerfs.

And you claimed nothing can be OP in a PvE game. That's what I was testing. Thanks for again dodging the question.

False equivalence on the "if OP doesn't matter, UP doesn't matter". I urge you to look it up. A perk being too strong is not a problem however a perk being too weak is definitely a problem in any co-op game. You're making an argument which has no basis in good game design for the type of game made. In a competitive game it is an issue if a choice is too strong because then the game ends up REVOLVING around that particular thing at the detriment to other competing players. However in a PvE game this doesn't happen as you are not fighting other players (thus making the game un-fun for them) you are fighting against a computer. People who complain about other perks being stronger than their perk of choice really are just saying they want to be the new top dog when it is NOT a competition. The goal is to finish the game through any means necessary. Not to be the one with the biggest e-peen on the team.

This is what started this side argument. If the game was a matter of what's viable and what isn't, there would only be buffs to perks that need it. However, there are nerfs, which means there is an attempt to achieve balance and keep the game challenging. So yes, a perk can be OP.

Meanwhile in Commando and Firebug land. Commando can decap in one clip of a SCAR for a scrake, that takes about maybe 6-7 seconds uninterrupted and that is being generous as it probably takes less time. You don't need to count the reload because based on a perfect playing metric a commando can take it out that fast. Firebug can take out FP no problem with its fire stumbles though admittedly I have not tested firebug for optimal play after the latest patch as there are other things which to test out or play.

Scrakes aren't too big of an issue with any perk. Flesh pounds are a different story though. I haven't had much luck using firebug and killing a flesh pound solo with 5 or 6 players in since they fixed the rapid tapping exploit.

What I'm saying is, By the numbers and in a vacuum people think "Look at those numbers they are too high" when in reality there are just as good things on other classes which I don't think any sane person would say "Hey lets get that nerfed". I mean, in a world where you don't want any class to be able to solo a big zed shouldn't Commando's Scrake decapping count under that? But clearly, when it comes to berserker it is a very different story. I'm not for getting good parts of other classes getting nerfed, I've said this before to be clear, what I am pointing out is the hypocrisy in many people's comments by pointing out just berserker when other classes had good things and likely should have kept them or still have them.

Berserker has a lot of benefits compared to other perks. About the only down side is having to be close to zeds. However, increased damage resistance and movement speed is suppose to counter that. Why he has the highest health pool I'll never know.

Personally, I feel a perk not having a movement speed bonus is a significant crutch. When defenses fall and everybody spreads out and leaves the camp area, the perks with the movement speed bonus are going to survive. I still have no clue why I feel like the only one that thinks this, but having that increased movement speed gives such an advantage, especially with zed teleporting not being a big issue anymore.

With that said, I definitely believe perks with this advantage shouldn't have so many other benefits. This is why I thought berserker was fine on release (again except for its skill choices). It just baffles me that the perks that can tank are the fastest moving perks, and yet people want one that can dish out large amount of damage too?

It is one thing to claim Smash is OP when all you really wanted is Zweihander to not be a Pay 2 win item as Smash was clearly balanced with every other weapon in the class. A fair criticism, though one I think could be fixed with price increases and animation changes first before changes to numbers, changes to numbers should ONLY affect zweihander. Or in the case that the weapon is fine after these changes and people are still upset it is a pay 2 get item (nevermind that usually somebody will have it) then make an alternative with a different skin, maybe a fireaxe. Again, taking a machete when you need a scalpel. You can't honestly believe they "buffed berserker too much" on InD release but then say "everything is fine" when smash is reduced to 1/4th effectiveness, Health goes down to have less max health with armor than medic, and Zweihander hitbox gets nerfed. The 1/4th effectiveness is already a red flag for overnerfing.

I personally didn't care for zwei either staying as it was or getting nerfed. I do think it would be better for zwei to have a slow swing speed as you said earlier, mainly because it fits the weapon better. I just see it as a gimmick weapon, nothing more.

I'm about to make some enemies here, but TWI should take a glance at the skill trees of the classes from XCOM, where certain levels offered simply one, but one very useful option for the perk. It would be best if Parry and Smash were simply combined and left at that, since nothing could top it. Parrying successfully gives the zerk a BIG damage boost (back to 100%) and a guaranteed knockdown chance on the next power attack, so long as the KD isn't on cooldown. This encourages the gameplay style TWI had in mind for the Zerk, as it rewards talented play and balances out Smash in a manner that doesn't require incessant number tweaking.

I like that idea actually.

 

[VastSpartan]

Again, the "evidence" to support the claim that I hate berserker is me wanting and justifying the nerfs.

And you claimed nothing can be OP in a PvE game. That's what I was testing. Thanks for again dodging the question.

This is what started this side argument. If the game was a matter of what's viable and what isn't, there would only be buffs to perks that need it. However, there are nerfs, which means there is an attempt to achieve balance and keep the game challenging. So yes, a perk can be OP.



Scrakes aren't too big of an issue with any perk. Flesh pounds are a different story though. I haven't had much luck using firebug and killing a flesh pound solo with 5 or 6 players in since they fixed the rapid tapping exploit.



Berserker has a lot of benefits compared to other perks. About the only down side is having to be close to zeds. However, increased damage resistance and movement speed is suppose to counter that. Why he has the highest health pool I'll never know.

Personally, I feel a perk not having a movement speed bonus is a significant crutch. When defenses fall and everybody spreads out and leaves the camp area, the perks with the movement speed bonus are going to survive. I still have no clue why I feel like the only one that thinks this, but having that increased movement speed gives such an advantage, especially with zed teleporting not being a big issue anymore.

With that said, I definitely believe perks with this advantage shouldn't have so many other benefits. This is why I thought berserker was fine on release (again except for its skill choices). It just baffles me that the perks that can tank are the fastest moving perks, and yet people want one that can dish out large amount of damage too?



I personally didn't care for zwei either staying as it was or getting nerfed. I do think it would be better for zwei to have a slow swing speed as you said earlier, mainly because it fits the weapon better. I just see it as a gimmick weapon, nothing more.



I like that idea actually.

The few times I see you contribute in a thread are matters of berserker and at times commando. The Berserker was OP thread was nothing but a s*** storm with you in the middle repeating the same dispute. Which again is a coincidence and proving positive on my thesis that you dislike Berserker.

 

[Savage Rodent]

The few times I see you contribute in a thread are matters of berserker and at times commando. The Berserker was OP thread was nothing but a s*** storm with you in the middle repeating the same dispute. Which again is a coincidence and proving positive on my thesis that you dislike Berserker.

I've also put my 2 cents into a support thread as well. Unfortunately I had a little moment in an auto weapon swing thread as well, however I'm assuming that got resolved with a mod.

And for the last time, I don't dislike the perk. Apparently not replying to threads like this is the only proof I can give to support my claim. That or praise over buffs and despise necessary nerfs. I've obviously made an impact from that previous thread since it has been mentioned several times in this one, and all I started out saying in this thread is that berserker is closer in balance to the rest of the perks.

Maybe I should just stop giving feedback and discussing stuff. I mean apparently I know nothing about game balance because I think something can be OP in a coop PvE game.