There will be vehicles

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Nicholas

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So I geuss the crew will just all just hug eachother as they are burned alive inside their tank....
 

Major_Day

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It should be left up to Tank Commanders/crew to make an informed decision whether to bail or not, i too prefer to die in my tank,but sometimes you just have to get out and kill that pesky sod who is calling arty on your team, or the one enemy hiding in the cap zone preventing you from capping.
If both your tracks and your turret are disabled and you can't bail out, all you can do is sit there and wait to die, would real tank crew have done this?
Tank crew weren't "part of a tank", they were operators, sometimes highly skilled and trained human beings, which has been quite decently represented up till now.
But at least you get to look at how pretty the inside of your tank is, while your waiting.
 
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Fedorov

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but sometimes you just have to get out and kill that pesky sod who is calling arty on your team, or the one enemy hiding in the cap zone preventing you from capping.
If both your tracks and your turret are disabled and you can't bail out, all you can do is sit there and wait to die, would real tank crew have done this?

I don't know if real tank crew would have stayed in the disabled tank...

...but I certainly doubt that a real tank crew abandon its tank to go search for that hidden guy somewhere in the "capzone "

Edit: post 3000 =)
 
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SheepDip

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It should be left up to Tank Commanders/crew to make an informed decision whether to bail or not, i too prefer to die in my tank,but sometimes you just have to get out and kill that pesky sod who is calling arty on your team, or the one enemy hiding in the cap zone preventing you from capping.
If both your tracks and your turret are disabled and you can't bail out, all you can do is sit there and wait to die, would real tank crew have done this?
Tank crew weren't "part of a tank", they were operators, sometimes highly skilled and trained human beings, which has been quite decently represented up till now.
But at least you get to look at how pretty the inside of your tank is, while your waiting.

If the tank is disabled in any way (movement/weapons) then they've said you can scuttle the tank. So it's technically the same philosophy as the player damage model.

Combat ineffective = dead. Only you get to decide when.

The current bail-out system (even if it were introduced with a timer) causes many problems in RO
*People driving to a capzone & ditching the tank
*People having bailed from their tank, waiting for another to arrive, getting in someone elses tank and driving away with it etc
*One of your crew getting out before you die - and whilst you go back to the spawn with the tank they don't so you have to have a new person in your tank
*Popping out of the tank and getting a cheap kill - blah blah, I cba to list faults currently.

It's bad for teamwork, and a little annoying.

Given that so much more attention to detail has been given to the tanks it would be a waste for it to be ruined by implementing an unrealistic system for entering and exiting the vehicle. The problems it solves, and the teamplay it encourages outweigh (in my opinion) the downside of not being able to bail out.
 
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Major_Day

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Every single point you made is valid, and these things should be fixed,but not by completely neutering the tank role competely.
Red Ochestra stands head and shoulders above most other FPS. games mostly because of Tripwire's attention to detail and their high regard to making the game as realistic as possible, implementing a system like this which is totally unrealistic will make the games critics rub their hands with glee
But much worse than that is the fact that many current players of RO will buy this game based on their love of the tanking system as it is at present, hoping for all the things you mentioned to have been improved,only to find that tanking has completely changed and not IMO. for the better.
I truly hope that Tripwire have a rethink, lets get back to a more realistic IMPROVED tank system, not some watered down easy way out.

:IS2::IS2::IS2::IS2::IS2:
 

Fedorov

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Every single point you made is valid, and these things should be fixed,but not by completely neutering the tank role competely.
Red Ochestra stands head and shoulders above most other FPS. games mostly because of Tripwire's attention to detail and their high regard to making the game as realistic as possible, implementing a system like this which is totally unrealistic will make the games critics rub their hands with glee

is not less realistic than people jumping in and out of the tank and having a crazy party at the spawn. which is not only unrealistic but also bad for gameplay

I truly hope that Tripwire have a rethink, lets get back to a more realistic IMPROVED tank system, not some watered down easy way out.

Nothing against what you said here, but if you can think of a formula that is 100% realistic and fixes all the problems at the same time, I'd like to hear it.
 
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Nicholas

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If the tank is disabled in any way (movement/weapons) then they've said you can scuttle the tank. So it's technically the same philosophy as the player damage model.

Combat ineffective = dead. Only you get to decide when.

The current bail-out system (even if it were introduced with a timer) causes many problems in RO
*People driving to a capzone & ditching the tank
*People having bailed from their tank, waiting for another to arrive, getting in someone elses tank and driving away with it etc
*One of your crew getting out before you die - and whilst you go back to the spawn with the tank they don't so you have to have a new person in your tank
*Popping out of the tank and getting a cheap kill - blah blah, I cba to list faults currently.

It's bad for teamwork, and a little annoying.

Given that so much more attention to detail has been given to the tanks it would be a waste for it to be ruined by implementing an unrealistic system for entering and exiting the vehicle. The problems it solves, and the teamplay it encourages outweigh (in my opinion) the downside of not being able to bail out.

You have a point but its not realistic to just commit suicide when you're tank can't move.... They need to come up with someting.

When you're wounded in RO2 you can bandage yourself up and continue fighting, you don't commit suicide because of a leg injury, the tanks should either be able to do minor repairs or just bailout when its stuck.
 
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Mormegil

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When you're wounded in RO2 you can bandage yourself up and continue fighting, you don't commit suicide because of a leg injury, the tanks should either be able to do minor repairs or just bailout when its stuck.

IRL, when you're leg is broken in 3 or 4 places, you don't die or commit suicide, but you don't keep fighting either. In the game, you're no longer considered combat effective, so you respawn.

Same concept for the tank. When your tank is knocked out, you are no longer a combat effective tank, so you respawn.
 

Nicholas

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IRL, when you're leg is broken in 3 or 4 places, you don't die or commit suicide, but you don't keep fighting either. In the game, you're no longer considered combat effective, so you respawn.

Same concept for the tank. When your tank is knocked out, you are no longer a combat effective tank, so you respawn.

Okay, but what happens to the soldier/tank? Do they disapear, or just stay there wounded/damaged?
 

Major_Day

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I imagine once you've taken the decision to "scuttle" the tank, the tank will explode as if it were destroyed.

The point is you shouldn't need to scuttle the tank,you should be able to get out (slowly) and carry on fighting with whatever weapon you have.
The tank will self-destruct as it does just now.
Respawning inside a tank is just a silly idea and totally out of keeping with all that is good about RO.
A soldier wounded in the hand or arm can be considered to be combat ineffective, but few of them are gonna put a gun to their head and kill themselves.

bye bye :IS2::IS2::IS2::IS2::IS2:
 
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Nimsky

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I imagine once you've taken the decision to "scuttle" the tank, the tank will explode as if it were destroyed.

Or maybe like this: you see a first person animation of your character priming a satchel charge, throwing it off to the side of the screen, get out of the tank, and then the screen fades to black and you respawn as your avatar (now AI) runs away from the tank to the edge of the map.
 

Major_Day

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If an animation like that could be made,then surely an animation of a crew member baling out could be made?
Mantling will be included in HoS seems to me like climbing out a tank is very similar to that
Its bad enough that im not gonna have my IS2, but now i got to commit suicide every time my turret/tracks are damaged.
bye bye :IS2::IS2::IS2::IS2::IS2:
 
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Nimsky

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If an animation like that could be made,then surely an animation of a crew member baling out could be made?

bye bye :IS2::IS2::IS2::IS2::IS2:

I meant a simplified animation of getting out, kinda like in ArmA 2 when you get in and out of a tank.

You can say that not being able to exit the tank is unrealistic, but so are some of the things that happen when tankers exit their tank in RO... double edged sword here. Both options have realistic and unrealistic aspects.
 

cmdrsven

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May 28, 2010
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I could imagine a system where you had the option to leave and scuttle tank if it's immobilized or had the main gun out of action, but in doing so you would give up your tank role and respawn as a rifleman or whatever. Thus making sure the intended amount of tanks are available on the battlefield.

But I have no problem whatsoever with the system as TWI has planned either. You choose to tank, you tank, no business running around the battlefield on foot then. And I feel it isn't really worth all the extra work to construct such animations, really.
 
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Major_Day

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I meant a simplified animation of getting out, kinda like in ArmA 2 when you get in and out of a tank.

You can say that not being able to exit the tank is unrealistic, but so are some of the things that happen when tankers exit their tank in RO... double edged sword here. Both options have realistic and unrealistic aspects.
Yes their are unrealistic aspects at present but the whole idea of a sequel or a game 2 is to fix some of the stuff that wasn't quite right in the first game, and make it better
The guys at DH have sorted the baling animation out, if you jump out the gunners position you end up standing on top of the turret until you jump down, whats wrong with that?
If a team of highly skilled amateurs can do it etc. etc.
Sorry i never played Arma2, perhaps you could describe it or maybe post a clip?

cmdrsvn:
Running around the battlefield on foot is daft, but its closer to what happened IRL, scuttling your tank and respawning back inside it is just plain silly.
DH has an animation already constructed and in use.Why not use that.
 
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SheepDip

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The point is you shouldn't need to scuttle the tank,you should be able to get out (slowly) and carry on fighting with whatever weapon you have.
"Should"...but can't. There are many techical and gameplay related (as we've mentioned - From standing in the spawn waiting for a tank and sharing it with a stranger with no interest in teamwork, to the complexity of implementation) reasons to stop this happening.
HOES is shipping with one vehicle only map, and the rest of the maps will either be infantry only or CA. And for those CA maps you can bet your arse having the tankers fixed to the tank will give the infantry on that map a much better chance of getting good support from it.

I don't see why the big fuss/negativity - exactly how often are you bailing out of tanks and spamming people with your pistol? Surely you must agree that the improvements to the tank system far outweigh this 1 negative point? Especially given how insignificant it is?

A soldier wounded in the hand or arm can be considered to be combat ineffective, but few of them are gonna put a gun to their head and kill themselves.
A soldier who is made combat ineffective in ROOST dies, something we all accept quite happily and have done since...? I don't see why the same philosophy can't be applied to the vehicles - I'm pretty confident they'll work far better as one entity than they have done in ROOST

The guys at DH have sorted the baling animation out, if you jump out the gunners position you end up standing on top of the turret until you jump down, whats wrong with that?
The vehicle system in HOES (most probably - given that ROOST/DH vehicle system is still grounded in the vehicle system from UT2004?) isn't the same vehicle system, for all we know the way the tanks in HOES are coded (due to the complexity of accurately modelling them) spawns the tank as 1 "player" that up to 4 clients can share control of. What if the models you see inside the tank aren't player models that can just "exit", they are part of the model itself and are not able to leave it? Thus making coding their exiting the vehicle and entrance into the gameworld as a playable soldier in a realistic manner (i.e can be shot as they dismount the vehicle etc) a lot of work?

TWI have already said that it *could* be done, but that they do not see the benefit vs workload. And I agree.

Good day sir. :IS2:
 
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Peter.Steele

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And to think, to this day, in American tanks, they've got loaders.

"Well the good news son, is you're joining armored cav. The bad news is, you're a loader."



More reliable and faster than a mechanical system like the Russians use.

In fact, I can only think of one MBT other than Russian and ChiCom designs that uses an autoloader, and that's the new Japanese one. Type 10, I think, or something like that.