Theory: Take away realism to create realism.

[Fisher]

Many, including myself, are disappointed with firefights that only ever last one bullet. I want firefights to be prolonged and even scary. I believe being able to zoom in is a large contributing factor. While I understand the science and realism behind it, peripheral vision etc., I believe being able to see your enemy, even at long distances in great detail, means there is no need for suppressive fire. Long story short, if you can only barely see your enemy, you shoot in his general direction. If you can see him, you suddenly become a sharpshooter with eyes like a hawk.

This mainly applies to the larger maps, and so, would not be as effective on a map such as Apartments, however, it would help. Combining this with greater sway and recoil would fix this. My theory basically sums up to: get rid of some realistic components, and increase gun sway and recoil, even if realistic, to make an overall realistic gameplay experience.

Also, weapon firing echoes should be louder and more common, and bullet impacts should sound more powerful, with louder cracks and whizzes. This would also contribute to the fear factor. When I get shot at, my immediate reaction should be to duck, and this would help.

Now that you've heard my theory, post your own.

Edit: Please remember this is meant to be a constructive criticism and improvement suggestions discussion thread. Please keep comments calm and, for lack of a better word, civilised. I don't want a thread full of angry or sarcastic comments. Think before you post.

 

[Nervous_Energy]

leave it as it is ?

I quite like it as is and have sustained firefights with other people who know how to use the cover system. Everyone else just dies quicker.

 

[Mike 78]

leave it as it is ?

I quite like it as is and have sustained firefights with other people who know how to use the cover system. Everyone else just dies quicker.

BULL****, you either don't know what sustained firefights are or you have been shooting at nothing. Either you hit your target within 5 seconds or you die.

Pff, cover system, give me a break noob.

 

[Redemption]

I quite like it as is and have sustained firefights with other people who know how to use the cover system. Everyone else just dies quicker.

There is no cover, I shoot people through cover with my bullet penetration, also when you go into cover, people know exactly where you are on the other side of it, kind of pointless

 

[Icey_Pain]

As far as the sound goes:

Sound of course is always a contributing factor to immersion, Red Orchestra 2 seems to be quite bland in that sense right now, though when I played the beta there were much better sounds than there are now.

My guess is that the reason the native voices, deathscreams and tiny little details such as footsteps are gone now is because the whole sound system is flawed.
Many people suggest that TWI should ditch Xaudio2 and pickup OpenAL.

But both sound systems are hardly perfect, XAudio2 simply can not compete because of the lack of soundcard support. OpenAL on the other hand is a much better system in that sense, but the last time I checked OpenAL is not really being developed anymore(or atleast very slowely) and the support for it. Also OpenAL on Windows Vista/7 is a complete joke, you would need to have a soundcard to enjoy it's benefits.

 

[Nervous_Energy]

BULL****, you either don't know what sustained firefights are or you have been shooting at nothing. Either you hit your target within 5 seconds or you die.

Pff, cover system, give me a break noob.

Cry me a river.

Now go back to your MKB and pretend you know what your doing.

 

[Extension7]

I kinda agree with OP.

The firefights in RO1 lasted waay longer due to people either tired from running their way there or they can't aim for **** cause it is wayy harder to aim in RO1 than RO2.

Maybe more sway when you just got done sprinting? Recoil is fine.

 

[Fisher]

Cry me a river.

Now go back to your MKB and pretend you know what your doing.

Seeing as you don't know what a sustained firefight is, you might as well leave the thread.

 

[Xeldrak]

Actually, I don't think that you can create a "realistic" firefight due to metagaming. Real firefights take long because people a affrait to die. If you shoot at a group of soldiers from a covert position, they will run for cover. First instinct: survive.

If you shoot at a group of guys in a Game, they will turn arround and shoot at you muzzle-flash. Why? First instinct: Get the kill, so I get that drum-magazine.

Don't think that any ammount of sway, recoil or whatever will change that...

 

[Mike 78]

Cry me a river.

Now go back to your MKB and pretend you know what your doing.

I haven't used MKB even once in 90 hours of RO2 and sporadicaly in 1000 hours of RO/DH. What a random comment anyway.

 

[Serrow]

I love how everyone thinks the Zoom feature is just the most unrealistic **** since the ability to run fifty meters without having a heart attack.

P.S The zoom feature is not unique to RO2, it is also present in Arma II, a game renowned for realism.

P.P.S The Mkb is fine.

 

[Krobar]

P.P.S The Mkb is fine.

Um... no it isn't.

 

[Fisher]

I love how everyone thinks the Zoom feature is just the most unrealistic **** since the ability to run fifty meters without having a heart attack.

P.S The zoom feature is not unique to RO2, it is also present in Arma II, a game renowned for realism.

P.P.S The Mkb is fine.

Read the title, I said it was realistic.

Actually, I don't think that you can create a "realistic" firefight due to metagaming. Real firefights take long because people a affrait to die. If you shoot at a group of soldiers from a covert position, they will run for cover. First instinct: survive.

If you shoot at a group of guys in a Game, they will turn arround and shoot at you muzzle-flash. Why? First instinct: Get the kill, so I get that drum-magazine.

Don't think that any ammount of sway, recoil or whatever will change that...

I also said increasing bullet cracks and whizzes, and increase gun noise/echoes would help increase fear.


Come on people, actually read the post before commenting.

 

[wooki]

I like controls the way they are. More sway on being out of breath or wounded would be ok. Also, increased bandaging time. Like close to a minute. That would increase intensity and fear.
Totally agreeing on sounds having more bark.

edit: the soundscape is gorgeous. But yeah, make me **** my pants when under fire

 

[Fisher]

make me **** my pants when under fire

That's the best description for what I want from the noise of being under fire

 

[Holy.Death]

I want firefights to be prolonged and even scary.

Well, real soldier fires only when he is sure he will hit/kill his target. From what I know - I can be wrong, correct me if I am - effective combat range is 300 meters. Most of kills is within that range. Am I right?

I believe being able to zoom in is a large contributing factor. While I understand the science and realism behind it, peripheral vision etc., I believe being able to see your enemy, even at long distances in great detail, means there is no need for suppressive fire. Long story short, if you can only barely see your enemy, you shoot in his general direction. If you can see him, you suddenly become a sharpshooter with eyes like a hawk.

I don't think so... Zoom is not the problem in itself. Problem is in maps. They are not small (at least not all of them are), but there are certain factors making them look so.

Spawn zones often tend to move with each captured objective (Red October Factory for example) and both sides have zones they need to attack or defend, since you need people in there to win over the zone most of combat happens there at relatively small distances (from one zone into another). Also, the way maps are constructed is not helping to contribute into long range combat, but that can be blamed on Stalingrad's situation, I guess).

We need change with spawn points (to not move people closer to the enemy and the front) OR more maps with bigger open areas for real sniping (anything above 300 meters).

 

[Inuki]

BULL****, you either don't know what sustained firefights are or you have been shooting at nothing. Either you hit your target within 5 seconds or you die.

Pff, cover system, give me a break noob.

Have to agree with this guy. And it makes me very angry when people suggest this game already has firefights.

People are too accurate. Someone fires a bullet. Someone dies. Hear a shot. Look top right and see someone die. With only 32 bodies on each team thats 32 shots and 32 deaths. There isn't enough bodies to keep a firefight going. Not to mention you will be one of the casulties as you pop out of cover to shoot one guy, to then be instantly killed by someone doing exactly the same thing.


Make it harder to aim at people. Make it require more skill. Make being #1 on the server by having more kills not as important as enjoying the progress of the battle.

 

[Fisher]

Well, real soldier fires only when he is sure he will hit/kill his target. From what I know - I can be wrong, correct me if I am - effective combat range is 300 meters. Most of kills is within that range. Am I right?

No. Soldiers will fire at the direction of an enemy to suppress them. They usually do this because they cannot get an exact fix on their location, as engaging distances can be quite long. This is also used if a comrade is wounded or other scenarios where they need to try make the enemy take cover. Enemy takes cover = less bullets flying towards you. Also, if they do think they have a chance at killing them and they drop for cover, they might give suppresive fire in the hope of penetrating the cover.

They are not small (at least not all of them are), but there are certain factors making them look so.

In regards to map sizes, they are actually surprisingly small, especially for a shooter that is supposedly based on realism. I don't know whether you have ever played the project reality mod for battlefield 2, but it is one of the most realistic modern shooters out there, on par with, and some may say (me included) better than, Arma 2. The maps were huge, and this really added to the realism, and even tactics. On a small map, such as maps in RO2, people can lone wolf it, because the other team is doing the same. On large maps, such as in PR, people have to stay together because lone wolfing is suicide, you can even get lost when on your own, having 8 guys firing at 6 others is allot better than 1 guy vs 6 others, and the other side are all in groups and squads also.

There is no way you can truly understand it without playing it, but I have never experienced such good teamwork on any other game to date.

Firefight in West Fallujah - Project Reality 0.86 - YouTube

Notice, they can't zoom either.

 

[Bettysmith]

I'm amazed that people still complain about the ability to see on a 1:1 scale what the human eye would, and call it unrealistic. The alternative would be having a much more narrow field of vision all the time, not just when standing still and holding shift, if realistic were your objective.

 

[Fisher]

I'm amazed that people still complain about the ability to see on a 1:1 scale what the human eye would, and call it unrealistic. The alternative would be having a much more narrow field of vision all the time, not just when standing still and holding shift if realistic were your objective.

For heavens sake, yet again, I NEVER SAID IT WASN'T REALISTIC! IT'S EVEN IN THE TITLE!