The white peripheral indicators

[PhoenixDragon]

Forgive me for not taking your word for it, but you're not exactly unbiased.

Excuse me, but the code is as unbiased as you can get:

Excerpt from ROHUDWidgetPeripheralPawns.uc, function UpdatePawnList
if ( NamedPlayer != none && PlayerOwner != none && NamedPlayer.PlayerReplicationInfo != none
&& NamedPlayer.PlayerReplicationInfo.Team != PlayerOwner.PlayerReplicationInfo.Team)
{
EnemyPawnList[EnemyPawnList.Length] = NamedPlayer;
}

The condition that adds pawns to the valid list only accepts them if the Team variable of the tested pawn does not equal the Team variable of the controlled player (The bolded part of the code). This is immediately after the function clears the EnemyPawnList array, and immediately before it sets a quarter-second timer to repeat the function and ends.

If friendlies are getting on that list, there is a bug somewhere.

 

[migmadmarine]

Hmm, Guess I was wrong then. I would swear I've seen this, but either I am mis-remembering, or there is a bug. Would it be possible to edit this bit of code that would make it show both friendlies and hostiles?

 

[Rabid Penguin]

Excuse me, but the code is as unbiased as you can get:



The condition that adds pawns to the valid list only accepts them if the Team variable of the tested pawn does not equal the Team variable of the controlled player (The bolded part of the code). This is immediately after the function clears the EnemyPawnList array, and immediately before it sets a quarter-second timer to repeat the function and ends.

If friendlies are getting on that list, there is a bug somewhere.

It's quite possible friendlies are still getting in, since quite a few people are claiming to have experienced it. Either way, they should be, since you wouldn't be able to tell the difference in your periphery anyway. Could be they left friendlies out to avoid accidental teamkills? Anyway, I don't consider them a hack.. they're compensating for a much wider FOV that you'd have in real life. There's quite a sizeable area we SHOULD be seeing beyond the edges of our monitors, but aren't.

 

[Moskeeto]

I have NEVER seen a friendly activate the peripheral indicators. I've even tested it myself before by moving my view around to see if my nearby teammates would activate it, and they never did.

 

[Proud_God]

It is triggered by friendlies, I've seen it happen numerous times.

Nope. Probably, you know, an enemy that was close to a friendly. Ever considered that as a possible source of those 'yeah I've seen friendlies cause a blip once in a blue moon'?

 

[PhoenixDragon]

It's quite possible friendlies are still getting in, since quite a few people are claiming to have experienced it.

Sure, it's possible. They've managed more impressive bugs in the past. If it's happening, though, it certainly doesn't appear to be intended behavior. Then again, it's not intended behavior to spawn in the enemy's spawn point, yet that happens on rare occasions. Never underestimate the power of bugs...

That said:

People claim lots of things. Quite a few people claim bandaging heals damage, for example. Heck, quite a few people didn't know there were peripheral indicators until it was pointed out to them.

Actually, misconceptions as to how the game works are rather common, particularly in many of the more complex systems, such as damage, hit-detection, etc. Then you get weird ones that people just pull out of nowhere: the winter trigger-guard increases ROF, semi-auto rifles do less damage than bolt-action rifles (In Realism or Classic), and that you can identify cheaters by the "wound" mark the cheat supposedly leaves on them.

People claim lots of things, but that doesn't make it true.

 

[Rabid Penguin]

Here's how we can test: 3 people join an empty realism server with no bots. Obviously 2 will be on one team and 1 on the other. Stand opposite the enemy player so they are in direct view in the middle of your screen. Since they are the only enemy on the map there is no possibility of the PI's being triggered by enemy. Then have the friendly player stand off to one side just out of view. If you get a PI we then KNOW for sure that friendlies trigger them.

Okay, I tested this in a realism server with a couple of mates. Tried in a few different locations, was unable to get the PI's to show up for the teammate.

I'm thinking there probably is a bug causing it to occaisionally show up for friendlies, because I HAVE seen it happen. The other day, I was in a trench in Commisars next to a friendly MG, and the PI was there the whole time. There were definitely no enemies that would be triggering it, as it was one of the trenches near D that are surrounded by completely flat ground. It was quite large too, so it was obviously triggered by something very close by, and the only other guy around was the friendly MG.

I've seen it before, i'm sure, but in that instance it HAS to have been friendly-triggered.

 

[Proud_God]

I've seen it before, i'm sure, but in that instance it HAS to have been friendly-triggered.

An other possibility: we know the system is quite wonky when someone auto switches to an other team (wrong uniform, load out etc). Maybe in those wonky cases, the PI's get messed up as well.

Bottom line is: in the normal case, PI's don't show for friendlies. Furthermore, thanks to the code-digging of Phoenix, we know this is intended behaviour, unfortunately.

 

[utek]

the white peripheral indicators are like those things:
http://blog.foundlocally.com/images/training_wheels-748506.jpg[url]http://blog.foundlocally.com/images/training_wheels-748506.jpg[/URL]

 

[PhoenixDragon]

An other possibility: we know the system is quite wonky when someone auto switches to an other team (wrong uniform, load out etc). Maybe in those wonky cases, the PI's get messed up as well.

Of all the places I thought of that might introduce such a bug, that seemed like it might be the most likely. If it's switching their team, while somehow failing to switch the "team" variable that the condition checks (I don't know if that's even possible, but obviously something is going wrong there!), then they'd pass that condition and make it onto the list. Still a bit far from "friendlies show up in peripherals," though, and far from common.

(Maybe someday we can get a more detailed and thorough system; tweaks to detection, identification, etc)

the white peripheral indicators are like those things: (Training wheels)

More like making sure the bike has both wheels before you ride it. You do realize that the FOV we have in-game, while unzoomed, covers about a quarter of a human's natural FOV, right? If we want to make the game realistic, something needs to be done to compensate for that fact.

 

[Rabid Penguin]

More like making sure the bike has both wheels before you ride it. You do realize that the FOV we have in-game, while unzoomed, covers about a quarter of a human's natural FOV, right? If we want to make the game realistic, something needs to be done to compensate for that fact.

I really thought you were opposed to the PI's and considered them unrealistic hacks. It looks like I may have misinterpreted, I apologise for my earlier comment about bias.

 

[migmadmarine]

If I may ask again, is there any part of that code there that can be changed to cause it to be triggered by friendlies and hostiles?

 

[PhoenixDragon]

I really thought you were opposed to the PI's and considered them unrealistic hacks. It looks like I may have misinterpreted, I apologise for my earlier comment about bias.

Nah, I've always been for peripheral indicators (Including, erm, earlier in this thread). I'd prefer them to be done better, but having them as they are now is better than not having them at all, in my opinion.

If I may ask again, is there any part of that code there that can be changed to cause it to be triggered by friendlies and hostiles?

Sure, but that's not saying much. You can change the code to do just about anything, in-game. If you really wanted to, you could make a pistol that fired T-34s.

...it'd never get whitelisted, but hey, you could do it... :>

 

[Mekhazzio]

Let's start by severely lowering the distance they show up at and tag both enemies and friendlies.

One of the lesser-known mechanics of the peripheral system is that the range it shows people at is drastically lowered if the person is prone, and still more if stationary.

 

[Oldih]

More like making sure the bike has both wheels before you ride it. You do realize that the FOV we have in-game, while unzoomed, covers about a quarter of a human's natural FOV, right? If we want to make the game realistic, something needs to be done to compensate for that fact.

Combat stress can easily induce some form of tunnel vision even to battle hardened veterans, and if while we're at it, even if a human being can see at pretty wide angle compared to a monitor, not all of it will be focused and perfectly crystal. Not to mention there's no danger of peripheral vision triggering from completely random things, especially when you account how rod and cone cells behave at sudden changes in lightning.

(I am not against peripheral vision as a feature in theory, mind you, but at the same time it's IMHO rather poorly implemented in RO2.)

 

[Rak]

So shouldn't this be in the suggestions section? I've seen many good threads in general sent to the gulags of the suggestions section, so I don't think there is any reason why this shouldn't be.

 

[TraXx]

peripheral indicators just dumb down the game and make it more like COD where everything that you SHOULD be doing or paying attention to is simply wallhacked into your screen...

just one simple example -- flanking is a legitimate strategy and for someone camping watching the wrong direction, he gets an indicator and all of a sudden snaps to that position -- HELL NO. He should have been flanked and shot from the back for not watching a larger part of the battlefield. (SIGH)

I was pretty sure that most people enjoyed this game because it was one of the few FPS that maintained a skill gap.

 

[LugNut]

peripheral indicators just dumb down the game and make it more like COD where everything that you SHOULD be doing or paying attention to is simply wallhacked into your screen...

I'm with you. We all have to play with tunnel vision, with the emphasis on all. Yeah, it's not realistic and I wish I had a normal field of view, but I think it's hackish. I'd rather have to keep my ears and eyes open and swivel like a madman than be spoonfed info.

 

[PhoenixDragon]

Combat stress can easily induce some form of tunnel vision even to battle hardened veterans, and if while we're at it, even if a human being can see at pretty wide angle compared to a monitor, not all of it will be focused and perfectly crystal.

Like I said, there should be tweaking of its behavior.

Although tunnel vision already affects the human viewing the monitor, hence the reason why so many people never even noticed the peripherals back around launch time.

 

[hockeywarrior]

Excuse me, but the code is as unbiased as you can get:



The condition that adds pawns to the valid list only accepts them if the Team variable of the tested pawn does not equal the Team variable of the controlled player (The bolded part of the code). This is immediately after the function clears the EnemyPawnList array, and immediately before it sets a quarter-second timer to repeat the function and ends.

If friendlies are getting on that list, there is a bug somewhere.

Thanks for doing your homework on this ... I was starting to think I was going crazy or something lol.