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the things that make you want to punch a baby thread
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Yawn.
That's nothing more than an idiots guide to the official FEMA explanation. With a couple of poor arguments against some conspiracy theories even I consider stupid.
Why were all the CCTV tapes filming the pentagon impact taken, and never released (except the one that shows nothing).
Why did FEMA remove and sell all of the steel from the WTC rubble so quickly? Despite objections from fire chiefs?
Why were the firemen ordered not to tell their stories under "national security"
Why was FEMAs budget for the investigation so low considering the magnitude of the event?
Why did WTC7 collapse? (Originally it was cooked up that it was fire, later it was admitted that it was intentionally "pulled". Who had time to rig the building for demolition? And why wasn't it announced?)
How exactly does a pancaking building manage to fall exactly, perfectly downwards at a freefall speed....twice. Surely this requires all of the support beams to fail at exactly the same time.
How can you expect me to believe there was anything but a small amount of fuel left to burn in an oxygen starved fire after you see the enourmous fireballs at initial impact?
You can get "experts" to agree with anything.
I have questions and there's so much ****e about I will never be able to find the answers. The "official story" is in my eyes as crooked as the Warren Comission report.
Can't get into this now. PM me if you wanna squabble.
*OT*
People who buy car insurance without knowing what they are paying for (You'll know what I mean after you've spent 44 minutes on the phone with a gentleman who insists his third party fire and theft policy includes glass damage)
Yawn.
That's nothing more than an idiots guide to the official FEMA explanation. With a couple of poor arguments against some conspiracy theories even I consider stupid.
Why were all the CCTV tapes filming the pentagon impact taken, and never released (except the one that shows nothing).
Why did FEMA remove and sell all of the steel from the WTC rubble so quickly? Despite objections from fire chiefs?
Why were the firemen ordered not to tell their stories under "national security"
Why was FEMAs budget for the investigation so low considering the magnitude of the event?
Why did WTC7 collapse? (Originally it was cooked up that it was fire, later it was admitted that it was intentionally "pulled". Who had time to rig the building for demolition? And why wasn't it announced?)
How exactly does a pancaking building manage to fall exactly, perfectly downwards at a freefall speed....twice. Surely this requires all of the support beams to fail at exactly the same time.
How can you expect me to believe there was anything but a small amount of fuel left to burn in an oxygen starved fire after you see the enourmous fireballs at initial impact?
You can get "experts" to agree with anything.
I have questions and there's so much ****e about I will never be able to find the answers. The "official story" is in my eyes as crooked as the Warren Comission report.
Can't get into this now. PM me if you wanna squabble.
*OT*
People who buy car insurance without knowing what they are paying for (You'll know what I mean after you've spent 44 minutes on the phone with a gentleman who insists his third party fire and theft policy includes glass damage)
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We have that in work 
It used to block this forum, where I now spend most of my working days
It used to block this forum, where I now spend most of my working days
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OK, so here we go.
Each tower lost most of its vertical framing members on at least one side of the building.
The impact blasted the fire-proofing off the steel members. (I work with structural steel, and the fire-proofing falls off very easily).
The damage was 15-20 ish floors below the top of the building. This means that millions of pounds of steel and concrete are teetering precariously 1000+ feet in the air. The WTC is not built like other sky scrapers. The Empire State Building is basically boxed out with steel the entire way up the building. Having huge posts and beams throughout every floor.
The WTC was what is referred to as Balloon Framing, instead of Plate Framing. There was a central core of posts, an outer facade of posts, and the floors were held up by a ledger system, instead of direct support from below... like the Empire State Building.
When the steel weakened, the building pancaked down a floor, causing a domino effect. Each floor was designed to hold up the one above it, not support 10 floors falling at once.
I saw the buildings list slightly and fall. Not fall exactly straight.
What do you mean an oxygen starved fire? The entire side of the building was ripped off. . . not to mention at that height, thermal drafts flow the entire way up the building through air plenums. And elevator shafts. I work on high-rises including the Adobe Towers in San Jose, it is easily 3 times as windy on the roof, around the parapet, than it is at street level.
Each tower lost most of its vertical framing members on at least one side of the building.
The impact blasted the fire-proofing off the steel members. (I work with structural steel, and the fire-proofing falls off very easily).
The damage was 15-20 ish floors below the top of the building. This means that millions of pounds of steel and concrete are teetering precariously 1000+ feet in the air. The WTC is not built like other sky scrapers. The Empire State Building is basically boxed out with steel the entire way up the building. Having huge posts and beams throughout every floor.
The WTC was what is referred to as Balloon Framing, instead of Plate Framing. There was a central core of posts, an outer facade of posts, and the floors were held up by a ledger system, instead of direct support from below... like the Empire State Building.
When the steel weakened, the building pancaked down a floor, causing a domino effect. Each floor was designed to hold up the one above it, not support 10 floors falling at once.
I saw the buildings list slightly and fall. Not fall exactly straight.
What do you mean an oxygen starved fire? The entire side of the building was ripped off. . . not to mention at that height, thermal drafts flow the entire way up the building through air plenums. And elevator shafts. I work on high-rises including the Adobe Towers in San Jose, it is easily 3 times as windy on the roof, around the parapet, than it is at street level.
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Heh, yeah. You'd be surprised how many people don't care. I mean, we live on such a beautiful planet. Yet we choose to destroy it ourselves. It almost seems that we're taught to not care about the environment. The earth is what we make of it. Why most people don't understand this is beyond me.
You want prosperity
For yourself, but not for me
Somehow you just can't see
We're in this collectively
-- Bad Religion
<3 Lizzy
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Thanks for that BuddyLee, I have heard an explanation of how it "happened" before.
Could you clarify for me please the reason for a large cloud of white smoke coming from the bottom of the towers pretty much as they started to collapse? Or numerous witness statements from survivors about explosions coming up the stairwells, out onto the street outside or in the building itself, including the firefighters who were baffled by the situation as assumed that terrorists had infact blown the WTC up anyway? Or why WTC 7 which was admittadly collapsed by demolition kept the same/similar extremely hot tempterature under the rubble as the main 2 towers for days after the event? If one simply collapsed, how exactly did a temperature like that maintain itself under a huge pile of rubble?
It's not that I'm saying what you've said it's wrong, but I need so many more answers in order to accept it.
I cba to discuss this as it always ends up in circles, if you want to PM me or something.
I don't want this thread closed because of this.
Could you clarify for me please the reason for a large cloud of white smoke coming from the bottom of the towers pretty much as they started to collapse? Or numerous witness statements from survivors about explosions coming up the stairwells, out onto the street outside or in the building itself, including the firefighters who were baffled by the situation as assumed that terrorists had infact blown the WTC up anyway? Or why WTC 7 which was admittadly collapsed by demolition kept the same/similar extremely hot tempterature under the rubble as the main 2 towers for days after the event? If one simply collapsed, how exactly did a temperature like that maintain itself under a huge pile of rubble?
It's not that I'm saying what you've said it's wrong, but I need so many more answers in order to accept it.
I cba to discuss this as it always ends up in circles, if you want to PM me or something.
I don't want this thread closed because of this.
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I'm no professional but I can come up with ideas:
1. As the towers started to collapse, the air pressure from the building falling down forced debri out the exits
2. The explosions could have been the pancake floors breaking off and collapsing like Buddy Lee said.
3. Friction build up of building 7 could cause lots of heat along with busted gas pipes causing fires or whatever other kind of fuel is in it.
But if it was a demolition:
How come we don't see explosions from multiple stories for the building to collapse. For that big of a building, you're gonna have massive charges at ever couple of floors to blow the structure out which should be clearly visible from the outside. Every demolition i've seen on tv, one could easily see explosions taking place from the inside.
How would you get TONS of explosives into a building like that, install them and wire them without anyone getting suspicious? That would take MONTHS of planning, MONTHS of people dressed up in plumbing outfits, months of wiring detcord all over the place, through the walls, down the floors whatever. If there was any pretend to fix something on the floors, it should show up somewhere that service personnel were to work on the building for weeks at a time and pretty much anyone in the whole building would have to be told by email to ignore the work. And if explosives were planted on the bottom floor, the building would have a much better chance of tipping over sideways. Or according to Buddy Lee's explanation, it would be completely pointless to blow some of the bottom floor because all you have to do is blow a couple floors high up and it will collapse the whole building so why would they waste money, time, resources, adding complexity to the plan, and risk being found out just to blow the bottom floors?
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I have seen video's of inside the lobby, a lot of the explosions were likely elevators crashing at the bottom of the shafts. People jumping from the upper-floors made huge crashing sounds as they hit tin canopies, and their bones shattering as they hit the ground.
If the fuel made its way down the various shafts in the building, it may have ignited cars in the garage, and diesel stored for the WTC's back-up generators... which must have been massive. WTC #7 had its own fuel stores too. Diesel does not explode, like gasoline vapors. It burns at a steady rate, kind of like a oil-fire. (diesel explodes under high pressures).
I would not rule out secondary charges aimed at the foundation of the towers, if they were real the Government might not want the public to know how completely the security was breached. But i doubt Al Qaeda would have done this after the failed 1994~ bombing.
If the fuel made its way down the various shafts in the building, it may have ignited cars in the garage, and diesel stored for the WTC's back-up generators... which must have been massive. WTC #7 had its own fuel stores too. Diesel does not explode, like gasoline vapors. It burns at a steady rate, kind of like a oil-fire. (diesel explodes under high pressures).
I would not rule out secondary charges aimed at the foundation of the towers, if they were real the Government might not want the public to know how completely the security was breached. But i doubt Al Qaeda would have done this after the failed 1994~ bombing.
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Don't assume I'm looking for a "conspiracy theory" here, I'm just trying to understand.
Sure it was mighty convenient timing.
Drop it now
Sure it was mighty convenient timing.
Drop it now
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The words "lol" "rofl" and so on.
If you can't find the time to type out "hahaha," go die.
Seriously, I hate 1337 5p34k and all forms of internet chat. Just because you are typing informally doesn't mean you need to spell words with numbers. For example, when I get a text like this:
"LOL, yea, wana go 2 da movee 2nite?"
I want to cry.
Revised, good edition:
"Heh, yeah, wanna see a movie tonight?"
Not. That. Hard.
If you can't find the time to type out "hahaha," go die.
Seriously, I hate 1337 5p34k and all forms of internet chat. Just because you are typing informally doesn't mean you need to spell words with numbers. For example, when I get a text like this:
"LOL, yea, wana go 2 da movee 2nite?"
I want to cry.
Revised, good edition:
"Heh, yeah, wanna see a movie tonight?"
Not. That. Hard.
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