The SMGs

[KittyKitsune]

Liking the beta so far, but I have noticed a few things.

I quite like the Ppsh41 ingame, but I feel that in comparison the MP40 is to overpowered, and for no apparent reason. I mean if these weapons are suppose to be based of the real world counter parts then I don't understand why the MP40 is more accurate than the ppsh41. Since the ppsh had an effective range of 150 m and the mp 40 of 100, and the ppsh41 bullets were faster i.e more accuracy.

It feels like the SMGs are based more of myths that russian stuff was cheap and german stuff was quality. I can understand why for the sake of balance you would make them even, but I don't understand why the mp40 is more accurate, has less recoil and do more damage than a ppsh41, when in reality it was opposite.

If anyone could explain the logic behind this i am eager to listen : )

Also on a side note i'd like a selective fire for the ppsh41 ^_^
Oh and the grib for the mp40 and ppsh41 was made to be used, i don't understand why people ingame always hold on to the magazine o_o
It is such a silly and wierd design choice.

 

[Overholt]

People couldnt hold the PPSH because it shot so quickly. The German MP 40 shot at a slower pace. I think your looking at velocity rather than how fast something shoots in RPM. German guns are longer range for outdoors., russian was shorter for close combat.

 

[Mittwaffen]

Bullet speed alone doesnt make better guns, engineering and how its put together has more of a say in the end.

German Engineering > Russian
Take away the T34 and that is it; but look at the bigger picture.


Russias best know invention? AK47

AK-47 is based of the STG-44; copied the German design.
(I think they even used the same engineer in making the AK-47, got captured)

USA Apollo Rockets...a German rocket program, not american. Germans got an
American to the moon; project paperclip just let them work in the USA doing the
same work as they did back home.

Modern world was basically created by Germany and their WWII Engineering; look at the crazy infrared they used against the Russians in WWII (Moon-vision).

"Even had this on their Panzers"




I dont see ANY problem with the MP40 being a better gun with the PPSH.

 

[Hells High]

Also on a side note i'd like a selective fire for the ppsh41 ^_^
Oh and the grib for the mp40 and ppsh41 was made to be used, i don't understand why people ingame always hold on to the magazine o_o
It is such a silly and wierd design choice.

Its proper either way because people did it either way.

 

[moray]

I agree!

Even if the only thing done was recoil lowered it would be more balanced.

And before you say realism! realism! - PPSh-41 - YouTube

 

[Panzer Jager '43]

The MP-40 has excellent stability but it's lethality is inferior - like the PPSh, it requires 2-3 hits to non-vital areas, but it fires a bit slower. The PPSh can accomplish a kill in shorter ranges with the shortest of bursts.

 

[Darkseed]

People couldnt hold the PPSH because it shot so quickly..

Source please? Everything I've read, heard and seen tells me the PPSH has very little recoil. If it shook about like it does in game then they would never have given it an effective range of 150m.

 

[DingDong09]

The recoil has improved (from RO1) but it's still a bit excessive. It might have shot very fast but it's recoil wasn't very strong .

 

[FBOTheLiuetenant]

I dont think the ppsh is innacurate at all in-game, I've been able to headshot a sniper at 100 meters with it before. Also if you think the MP40 is overpowered remember the MP40 doesnt get a 71 round drum magazine.

 

[V3-C]

EXACTLY!

PPSH had little recoil, it was an assault gun. Do you think they would give assault troops a gun that has LOADS OF RECOIL that would force them to stop, crouch and aim? IDIOTISM, please refrain from posting your stupidity.

ALSO ID LIKE TO SEE SOME IMPROVISED/HOMEMADE STALINGRAD SMG's that were made in factories during the siege. ANYONE can dig up on those?

 

[Romanrp]

The ppsh41 is also meant to be a lot more reliable than the mp40, I dont know how true that is though.

 

[V3-C]

The ppsh41 is also meant to be a lot more reliable than the mp40, I dont know how true that is though.

VERY TRUE, the MP40 had magazine clip issues etc. PPSH was faivoured by both sides, germans and russians. Loads of germans would use the PPSH in stalingrad.

 

[derknorf]

The PPSH is accurate at range but the ROF is much higher than the MP40s and the recoil is slightly stronger. Which means that you will lose control in a shorter amount of time. This doesn't mean that you can't hit targets accurately at range but it does mean that in any burst you will waste ammunition has after the first 2 or 3 rounds you start firing high.

Officially I believe, at least for the MP40, holding it by the magazine was discouraged because it was possible to pull the magazine out partially while firing.

 

[V3-C]

The PPSH is accurate at range but the ROF is much higher than the MP40s and the recoil is slightly stronger. Which means that you will lose control in a shorter amount of time. This doesn't mean that you can't hit targets accurately at range but it does mean that in any burst you will waste ammunition has after the first 2 or 3 rounds you start firing high.

Officially I believe, at least for the MP40, holding it by the magazine was discouraged because it was possible to pull the magazine out partially while firing.

WHERE ARE YOU GETTING THIS FROM? DISNEYLAND?

MP40 had STRONGER recoil than PPSH, stop smoking crack - go to shooting range and try it out...

 

[Lucan946]

Bullet speed alone doesnt make better guns, engineering and how its put together has more of a say in the end.

German Engineering > Russian
Take away the T34 and that is it; but look at the bigger picture.


Russias best know invention? AK47

AK-47 is based of the STG-44; copied the German design.
(I think they even used the same engineer in making the AK-47, got captured)

USA Apollo Rockets...a German rocket program, not american. Germans got an
American to the moon; project paperclip just let them work in the USA doing the
same work as they did back home.

Modern world was basically created by Germany and their WWII Engineering; look at the crazy infrared they used against the Russians in WWII (Moon-vision).

"Even had this on their Panzers"




I dont see ANY problem with the MP40 being a better gun with the PPSH.

Off topic for a second: The AK-47 is quite different from the STG 44 in its workings and mechanics and is a far, far superior weapon.

On topic: The MP-40 is a better mid to long range, but in a close range fight the good old bullet hose doesn't let me down much. Even in long range fights the PPSh can sometimes have an advantage because of its shear volume of fire. Longest kill I've gotten with the PPSh was 70m, which is just fine for an SMG.

It feels like the SMGs are based more of myths that russian stuff was cheap and german stuff was quality. I can understand why for the sake of balance you would make them even, but I don't understand why the mp40 is more accurate, has less recoil and do more damage than a ppsh41, when in reality it was opposite.

I'm pretty sure the PPSh does more damage than the MP-40. Not that it matters when you get hit to center mass.

 

[brain]

I think the PPSH will scale better with upgrades. After all, it will get the gigantic drum magazine and be able to spray all day.


Another issue is how ****ty hip firing is right now. The PPSH's ludicrous fire rate makes it a good spray-from-the-hip room clearing weapon... But right now hipfire is unpredictable and ****ty, so that entire use is taken out. From sights, it is realistic that the MP40 should be more controllable, but the PPSH should be a beast from the hip.

 

[Dest]

Mp40 seems better to me..

 

[TheRealGunther]

In RL the mp40 was more accurate due to a slow fire rate.In game the rate of fire will affect recoil and accuracy.The ppsh was better in close quarters and in game the best hip fired smg ... just like in ro1 ..i just miss the 50 rnd drum lol

 

[Mittwaffen]

Off topic for a second: The AK-47 is quite different from the STG 44 in its workings and mechanics and is a far, far superior weapon.

On topic: The MP-40 is a better mid to long range, but in a close range fight the good old bullet hose doesn't let me down much. Even in long range fights the PPSh can sometimes have an advantage because of its shear volume of fire. Longest kill I've gotten with the PPSh was 70m, which is just fine for an SMG.

1) The overall design and form of the weapon is very, very similar. In fact, people who don't know much about guns often mistake a STG-44 for an AK-47.

2) Hugo Schmeisser, the man who designed by the STG-44, was captured by the Russians in 1945 and forced to work on weapon design for them. Schmeisser was not allowed to go home until 1952. Those seven years Schmeisser was working in the USSR match up pretty neatly with the development of the AK-47 .

Kalishnikov (who is still alive), denies to this day that he copied the STG-44. And in a literal sense, he is correct. There are significant differences. On the other hand, the similarities are obvious even to someone who knows little about guns.



MP40 has earned the right to be better in the game, TWI has made it clear . But if you wanna buy both a PPSH 41/ MP40 then test it out on a range.

 

[V3-C]

1)
K... There are significant differences. On the other hand, the similarities are obvious even to someone who knows little about guns....

LET me guess, YOU ARE THAT SOMEONE WHO KNOWS A LITTLE ABOUT GUNS? K, can you please stfu with AK47 now, nobody is talking about it and you are going offtopic.

PPSH had less recoil than MP40, if you go to your lcoal gun range they shud stock those guns, test it out.