Level Design tHE rOAD TO OREL FINAL MAP THREAD BY THE AUTHOR

[Quietus]

If the SU-152 shows up.... then the Elefant/Ferdinand should justifiably appear also. Both were involved at Kursk.

All but two of the 91 available Ferdinands were put to use in the Battle of Kursk, the first combat the Elefant/Ferdinand saw.

I agree but at this point Germans can already deal with the Russians just fine on Kursk maps all German tanks can frontally penetrate the Russian tanks while Russians have nothing to deal with the Tiger frontally aside from HE round pummeling. So I say give the Russians the SU-122 or SU-152 first, then the Germans can have the "next turn" and get Ferdinand or Elephant. Course this is all wishful thinking and none of these tanks may ever be in game.

 

[Recce]

If the SU-152 shows up.... then the Elefant/Ferdinand should justifiably appear also. Both were involved at Kursk.

A 152mm L/24 compared to a 88mm L/71
AP at 500m: 109mm compared to 185mm
AP at 1Km: 100mm compared to 165mm
"Justifiaby"? Hmmmmm.
Not that you can see 500m on BDJ

 

[Colt .45 killer]

ehh, can we still have some positions where you can cross the river? its alot slower to cross through the water so that is a benefit to keeping bridges alive, but if your bridges all get blown and your left with your 1 main bridge thats getting artilleried. ehh, you in trouble. so if there were still a few spots where the river could be crossed that would be great (just make the river really shallow in those places)

Also if possible, make the shore line not so deadly, if it were possible for infantry to go a few feet into the water without magically dieng .... well you get the idea

 

[Quietus]

ehh, can we still have some positions where you can cross the river? its alot slower to cross through the water so that is a benefit to keeping bridges alive, but if your bridges all get blown and your left with your 1 main bridge thats getting artilleried. ehh, you in trouble. so if there were still a few spots where the river could be crossed that would be great (just make the river really shallow in those places)

If he does that it will negate the reason of having destroyable bridges in the first place. Who will bother to care about protecting/blowing bridges when you can just bypass them?

 

[Mike_Nomad]

If he does that it will negate the reason of having destroyable bridges in the first place. Who will bother to care about protecting/blowing bridges when you can just bypass them?

Correct!! Why must everyone look for the "easy way out"? Play the game!! Find a way - use strategy and tactics, time the Arty attacks then make your move. Its easy and can be done.

 

[Slashbot_427]

Well thats what Im battling ( the spawns). The forward spawns are great at reducing the driving times but they defeat the purpose of the bridges.

As it is now, with the back spawns as a starting point, all four bridges are in play at the start so that there are a variety of options as to where to go. If I made the first spawns at the north and south bridges then by the time one team has captured enough ground to drive the other team back to the rear spawn, the bridges will probably be blown. The losing team will then only have that one bridge to drive across, effectively making the whole river/bridge system obsolete.

I understand that the long drives are frustrating for some ppl, its frustrating for me too, sometimes. What I am doing in the final version is to have both teams spawn at the rear spawns, with no objectives captured as it is now. But I have split the spawns so that each side spawns in two locations at once at the rear spawn, one half on the east and on half on the west. This will bring into play the bridges more, as everyone will start on the flanks a bit, instead of evryone rushing north/south bridges. There is also a new secret ford in the river for each team. try to find it! Obviously it cant be blown.

Once the three (lowland) objectives are captured (eg for germans its North Bridge, East Field, and a new North Heights Objective- similar for soviets) the spawn will change to the north Bridge spawn. From there the heights need to be captured. If a side holds the 3 Lowland and 3 Heights Objectives then a new spawn will activate just on the attacking teams side of the hieghts. So for a lot of the map the north/ south bridge spawns will be active. The East/West Fields are a bit of a thorn-in-the-side because if somone sneaks around and caps it then the affected team can potentially get their spawn set back from the heights to the rear with one cap. Watch out for the flanks!!

I understand that its the wrong type of spawn system for a head to head, no-defenders map but it works for this map.

Well, sorry for quoting myself but....

As the above quote indicates there are three lowland objectives for the russians, three for the germans, and three neutral on the heights.

Contrary to what i said in the quoted post, I will be releasing the RO-Road to Orel Beta 2 with the first spawn at the north/south bridges, with the three lowlands objectives already captured for each team. Im a bit cautious about this, but I want to see if it works as a gameplay option. What it really means is that that battle commences in about 3mins instead of ten. But also it means a rush to the heights by everyone(maybe, depends how many ppl flank). I might change the initial spawns to the rear spawns if its nerfed.




Oh, and there is a "secret" ford across the river that cant be blown.




And i havent gone overboard on the number of PZ V and PZ IV spawns cause they rule if used properly.

 

[Rak]

Do we have a release date for beta? Also, will you adjust the water so a tank dropped into it explodes? Currently it's very weird to see whole convoy going through the river

And, do we have a loadout list? Will you make 2 versions again? Sorry for questions, I'm just full of them today

 

[karl stiner]

ehh, can we still have some positions where you can cross the river? its alot slower to cross through the water so that is a benefit to keeping bridges alive, but if your bridges all get blown and your left with your 1 main bridge thats getting artilleried. ehh, you in trouble. so if there were still a few spots where the river could be crossed that would be great (just make the river really shallow in those places)

Also if possible, make the shore line not so deadly, if it were possible for infantry to go a few feet into the water without magically dieng .... well you get the idea

yes but you have to watch it if you can cross the river the battle will go on all night, and no one will win you will end up fighting over the same places all night. this is happend alot on black day july when you get the first 4 cap zone they cant be taken back this is a good idea then the battle can only go forward, its good becasue then the russian can defend like devils or the germans have to defend if the things cant be taken back then people will fight hard to Defend or capture them ;-) before the enemy gets them

 

[Mike_Nomad]

I agree but at this point Germans can already deal with the Russians just fine on Kursk maps all German tanks can frontally penetrate the Russian tanks while Russians have nothing to deal with the Tiger frontally aside from HE round pummeling. So I say give the Russians the SU-122 or SU-152 first, then the Germans can have the "next turn" and get Ferdinand or Elephant. Course this is all wishful thinking and none of these tanks may ever be in game.

Hold on a moment... we all know the true outcome of Kursk. Let's not forget that minor fact.

Now then looking in general, for a moment, at the game... the T34/85 hammers the Tiger frontally but gets aced by a Panther True?? Nah.. not really. The player decides the outcome of every encounter. Which of course, is not quite right in everyone's opinion since superior equipment should be a deciding factor but then, in reality that's not accurate either, too many other deciding factors have an effect. We however, must remember we are playing a game and balance is a factor but the real underlying ingredients are the players. Not the map and certainly not built-in bias.

I propose that no concessions be made for either side. The proper weapons and vehicles for each battle/map should be provided whenever possible. Then, its up to the player's individual skills and abilities to decide the outcome of the encounters on the maps.

It's really that simple... no complicated formula. We've seen it time and time again, who said a map is biased one way or the other because they were hammered.

Its all nonsense... you can put an Abrams in the hands of an idiot on a WW1 map and he'll still lose and then, cry biased map!!

Skill, Tactics, Teamwork and Strategy are indeed the decisive factors in all our maps. It has taken me a while to realize this but please believe me, its true.

@Slashbot... we already have "secret' ways to cross the river...

• 1) the stone bridges that cannot be blown
• 2) stay in your vehicle and drive out of the river at a point of a low sloping bank

Please, reconsider, avoid the removal of the strategic advantage of blowing all destroyable bridges. Placing shallows in the river appears to be an effort to accommodate the lamers who refuse to think and use teamwork, tactics and strategy to develop their skill. The basic framework of Orel is what has made it ever so popular around the world. Please don't lose view of your original concept and design.

 

[Slashbot_427]

Hold on a moment... we all know the true outcome of Kursk. Let's not forget that minor fact.

Now then looking in general, for a moment, at the game... the T34/85 hammers the Tiger frontally but gets aced by a Panther True?? Nah.. not really. The player decides the outcome of every encounter. Which of course, is not quite right in everyone's opinion since superior equipment should be a deciding factor but then, in reality that's not accurate either, too many other deciding factors have an effect. We however, must remember we are playing a game and balance is a factor but the real underlying ingredients are the players. Not the map and certainly not built-in bias.

I propose that no concessions be made for either side. The proper weapons and vehicles for each battle/map should be provided whenever possible. Then, its up to the player's individual skills and abilities to decide the outcome of the encounters on the maps.

It's really that simple... no complicated formula. We've seen it time and time again, who said a map is biased one way or the other because they were hammered.

Its all nonsense... you can put an Abrams in the hands of an idiot on a WW1 map and he'll still lose and then, cry biased map!!

Skill, Tactics, Teamwork and Strategy are indeed the decisive factors in all our maps. It has taken me a while to realize this but please believe me, its true.

@Slashbot... we already have "secret' ways to cross the river...

• 1) the stone bridges that cannot be blown
• 2) stay in your vehicle and drive out of the river at a point of a low sloping bank

Please, reconsider, avoid the removal of the strategic advantage of blowing all destroyable bridges. Placing shallows in the river appears to be an effort to accommodate the lamers who refuse to think and use teamwork, tactics and strategy to develop their skill. The basic framework of Orel is what has made it ever so popular around the world. Please don't lose view of your original concept and design.

Ok so the "secret" ford across the river is not so secret. Its in the middle of the map so the the enemy can pound the **** out of you while you cross. Its just to somewhat remove the arty spam at the the last stages of the battle when the losing side might only have the stone bridge left. There is only one of them. I have also place a VERY effective deterent to crossing the river at ANY other point- its a minefield set up to act as water, and it blows you in 3 seconds. Theres no way round it. There is NO driving in the river anymore!


There are no T34/85 on this map, nor should there have been on my original version.

As for a release date, well next week. Work is chewing my time, I have to leave for an overnight work trip in the next few days, I have a GF etc etc.

not to sound pissed off (I'm not). I wish i could spend more time on it.

 

[Mike_Nomad]

RL always takes precedence... Your time schedule is fine by me. I am overjoyed with Orel as I am with a few others that I consider to be far better than average. I know the new version will be just as astounding as the the original was when it was first released.

 

[Slashbot_427]

RL always takes precedence... Your time schedule is fine by me. I am overjoyed with Orel as I am with a few others that I consider to be far better than average. I know the new version will be just as astounding as the the original was when it was first released.

No wukkas mike

thanks




PS. Im still trying to make the map comp deadline with some testing time so I will definately release what I have within a week.

 

[Mike_Nomad]

No wukkas mike

thanks




PS. Im still trying to make the map comp deadline with some testing time so I will definately release what I have within a week.

Wunnerful...... just Wunnerful!!

 

[karl stiner]

Mike_Nomad you are Right it is Skill, Tactics, Teamwork and Strategy are indeed the decisive factors in all our maps. ............ this is why i always win my battles, i most have a good team then i can use them as [SIZE=-1] Chess Pieces [/SIZE]

 

[Quietus]

Now then looking in general, for a moment, at the game... the T34/85 hammers the Tiger frontally but gets aced by a Panther True?? Nah.. not really. The player decides the outcome of every encounter. Which of course, is not quite right in everyone's opinion since superior equipment should be a deciding factor but then, in reality that's not accurate either, too many other deciding factors have an effect. We however, must remember we are playing a game and balance is a factor but the real underlying ingredients are the players. Not the map and certainly not built-in bias.

I propose that no concessions be made for either side. The proper weapons and vehicles for each battle/map should be provided whenever possible. Then, its up to the player's individual skills and abilities to decide the outcome of the encounters on the maps.

It's really that simple... no complicated formula. We've seen it time and time again, who said a map is biased one way or the other because they were hammered.

Its all nonsense... you can put an Abrams in the hands of an idiot on a WW1 map and he'll still lose and then, cry biased map!!

Skill, Tactics, Teamwork and Strategy are indeed the decisive factors in all our maps. It has taken me a while to realize this but please believe me, its true.

I agree tactics & skill can overcome superior foes but that's no excuse for in effect saying something like "eh, come on Russians you don't need the SU-152 just use good tactics" I'm not putting words in your mouth but that seems like what you're implying. There's a reason the Germans usually have more players on Orel and it a has alot to do with the Uber Tiger. Think of the situation in reverse: Let's pretend the Germans on Orel have only PzIII's PzIV's & STUGs while the Russians have T34/76 KV-1S & 2 SU-152's. But that's still not even the best example because the SU-152 has much weaker armor than the Tiger so every German tank would still be able to destroy it frontally. So pretend somehow this SU-152 is a "special" version with extra bolted on front armor to make it impenetrable frontally to all German tanks. Really, I think the Germans would be crying bloody murder non-stop.

 

[HansAdler]

Mike_Nomad you are Right it is Skill, Tactics, Teamwork and Strategy are indeed the decisive factors in all our maps. ............ this is why i always win my battles, i most have a good team then i can use them as [SIZE=-1] Chess Pieces [/SIZE]

Hehe...dirty bastard, i'd like to see your teammates use you !

Slashbot, well done on this map, i'm excited to see final .

 

[blitze]

Yeah, it annoys me when most players flick to the German side but hey, I've come into a game where there were 3 reds against 7 or more Germans and with some good co-ordination we have turned the tide. Then when it doesn't look like such a walk over by the Germans other people come over onto the red side. This being the 76 vs 88 version which is the one I enjoy.

Makes for a good challange smacking Tigers from near point blank range and from behind, trick is to disable their tracks and then keep clear of their slow moving turret.

Would like there to be less satchles as it pisses me off when a tanker will jump out when they are out matched tank on tank and throw a satchel at you. Actually it's pretty lame for them to do that. Just have to keep my distances at 100 to 200 meters in my puny T34/76 against those Tigers

 

[Quietus]

Yeah, it annoys me when most players flick to the German side but hey, I've come into a game where there were 3 reds against 7 or more Germans and with some good co-ordination we have turned the tide. Then when it doesn't look like such a walk over by the Germans other people come over onto the red side. This being the 76 vs 88 version which is the one I enjoy.

Makes for a good challange smacking Tigers from near point blank range and from behind, trick is to disable their tracks and then keep clear of their slow moving turret.

Would like there to be less satchles as it pisses me off when a tanker will jump out when they are out matched tank on tank and throw a satchel at you. Actually it's pretty lame for them to do that. Just have to keep my distances at 100 to 200 meters in my puny T34/76 against those Tigers

A team of good tankers in 2 separate SU76's can decimate a Tiger pretty quick with HE rounds (due to it's rapid fire rate) but few Russians have realized this fact yet. So I usually go alone in an SU76 and try my best to end the Tigers reign of terror when alot of the rest of my team is usually busy bouncing their AP rounds off it's front and getting toasted by 88mm fun cylinders. Now there are alot of good tankers out there that play Russian but there are also alot that have no clue which is what frustrates me.

 

[karl stiner]

A team of good tankers in 2 separate SU76's can decimate a Tiger pretty quick with HE rounds (due to it's rapid fire rate) but few Russians have realized this fact yet. So I usually go alone in an SU76 and try my best to end the Tigers reign of terror when alot of the rest of my team is usually busy bouncing their AP rounds off it's front and getting toasted by 88mm fun cylinders. Now there are alot of good tankers out there that play Russian but there are also alot that have no clue which is what frustrates me.

yea i dont really understand how can a su76 with HE kill the tiger from the front

 

[Quietus]

yea i dont really understand how can a su76 with HE kill the tiger from the front

I always use HE when frontally attacking the Tiger (whatever tank I'm in). It takes ALOT of HE rounds which is why the SU76 is best for that since it has such a fast firing rate. It's a trade off, SU76 has decimating ROF however it is a tin can so once it's targeted you better move it quick or you're dead.