the Pros & Cons of a Prestige System- A Community discussion

[ScrakeMorgendorffer]

But dude who loves kf1, kf1 was going to have this. Hell most of us wouldnt even mind if it was paid dlc (No longer the case TW!)
Its no different then people resetting their perk progression via killingfloor.ini

Paraphrase:

KF1 was going to have something completely superfluous, ergo KF2 should have something equally superfluous

Prestige systems really only work in games that have a deeply satisfying core gameplay loop.

 

[Ramare]

Prestige systems really only work in games that have a deeply satisfying core gameplay loop.

Chiming in on this, but isn't that pretty much the entire point of games like KF2? What you can argue on is whether or not it actually has a satisfying core gameplay loop.

For the record, I would. Then again, I'm always up for another hour or two of challenging shooty bang fun-time.

As for a prestige system, the reset-based, lose-everything style of prestige only really works for arcade-y competitive multiplayer games, e.g. Call of Duty. If we were going to have a prestige system, it would have to be the infinite progression style, where you can't stop, won't stop, never stop leveling up, but never give anything up either. And I also cast a vote for gaining special cosmetics only obtained through veteran levels, a special weapon skin (I propose that these skins also not be "obvious skin" style skins that have, say, a bunch of chibi penguins painted all over them, but instead alternate muted color schemes, different kinds of metal plating and maybe matching camouflage patterns) for every weapon on that perk (earned in order of tier) at 30, 35, 40 and 45 and then a couple of player cosmetics at level 50.

For example, for Gunslinger, they could get weapon skins in a dark, glossy crimson metal and matte black furniture theme and a classic cowboy hat and old west-styled sheriff star in various colors. Maybe Berserker could get nickle-plated weapons with rose gold detailing and a cape and hounskull helmet in various colors. TWI could definitely have some fun with that, and fun is good.

As for the complaint that some people would just grind that out: Who gives a crap? Plus, by the time this sort of thing got made there would be a map blacklist and all those fun-destroying, potential teammate-absorbing and terrible player-creating perk leveling maps would be destroyed.

 

[Gallic_Taffer]

Been avoiding this thread for as long as I possibly could, hoping someone would post so I didn't have to:

Scenario 1: the Prestige Pro gets his

*xXxproweed420xXx has entered the game*
"Do you have anything higher than a 14?"
"Nononono man, I know how to play, I'm just prestiging my perk-"
*Booting intensifies*

One more rectally ravaged player complaining about vote kick on the forums. We don't need any more of that.


Scenario 2: Level what?

*Player joins the server, level 2 or something*
Turns out he's on some stupidly high level (2255+), the large number has simply bugged out visually due to the limited space on the UI.
*Booting intensifies*

These are just a few scenarios regarding prestiging that could occur. It happens even now; max levels join HoE servers but are displayed as level 2's and 3's for whatever reason and are often not even aware of it, thus being accused of being oblivious new players. Levels that go up into the stratosphere for epeen purposes would only exacerbate it. The KF2 UI could use a lot of work in the update / display department. Not to mention I like to know what level a person is at a glance; a random mish mash of 113's and 71's would force me to keep the menu pulled up longer (cue fireball to the face).

So, what pros can prestiging bring? None, and those that have been presented so far are subjective at best. Both KF1 and 2 have received commendation for "not being like other shooters" or at least trying not to be, so why call for something that would further align it with the foul stench of the mainstream casual fps?

 

[ScrakeMorgendorffer]

Chiming in on this, but isn't that pretty much the entire point of games like KF2? What you can argue on is whether or not it actually has a satisfying core gameplay loop.

For the record, I would. Then again, I'm always up for another hour or two of challenging shooty bang fun-time.

As for a prestige system, the reset-based, lose-everything style of prestige only really works for arcade-y competitive multiplayer games, e.g. Call of Duty.

Let's break down why it used to work in Call of Duty games.

First and foremost, Call of Duty was never a genuinely co-op game, therefore the quality of your gaming experience didn't rely on other players. Sure, it helped to co-ordinate your efforts, but you could get by just fringing around your team without any semblance of care.

In CoD4 you didn't really get anything for your trouble, besides a visual cue next to your name that you'd spent X number of hours grinding through yet another 55 ranks of "Super Major Extra Sergeant" and "Colonel of Colon Capsizing". MW2 changed it up a little by allowing unlocks of editable and customisable loadouts - from the base 5, to a maximum of 10 slots at prestige level 9. I did that grind to prestige 10 because the extra 5 slots were worth it in my opinion; five customisable loadouts felt very sparse in a game with a lot of different weapons that had a reasonable degree of variety.

I believe that the reason many people prestiged in earlier CoD games was because there was a weapon unlock, a challenge unlock, an item or perk unlock basically every level or two; it kept your interest because there was always something else to look forward to. Now, to transfer that to KF2. The challenge isn't the same because there are no unlocks of weapons, challenges or items to encourage playing the game more. There are no rewards associated with completing any challenges. Additionally, players generally express frustration and irritation at how long it takes to level some perks, particularly those that are objectively less strong than others - or those that don't suit their particular preference of playstyle.

With that frustration of the length of time it takes to level in KF2, what incentive would it be to lose all your skills - some of which are essential to playing the game at higher difficulties - deal less damage, move slower and generally frustrate the player into playing lower difficulty games with players that are interested in the game only on a more casual level?

Sounds like anything but an incentive to me.

 

[Ryno5660]

What about earning a 3rd "level 5" perk skill at level 30? A fun/powerful sidegrade to the first 2 options. A 3rd "level 10" perk skill at level 35 and so on, up to 50.

Sidegrade skills which change up gameplay for that perk further? Maybe building fully into the 3rd skilltree allows for a risky skill-based but rewarding playstyle which can be pulled off by advanced players?

I also like the idea of cosmetics. Probably more doable to be honest. But I want to know what people think of the above.

 

[Lorkenpeist]

What about earning a 3rd "level 5" perk skill at level 30? A fun/powerful sidegrade to the first 2 options. A 3rd "level 10" perk skill at level 35 and so on, up to 50.

Sidegrade skills which change up gameplay for that perk further? Maybe building fully into the 3rd skilltree allows for a risky skill-based but rewarding playstyle which can be pulled off by advanced players?

I also like the idea of cosmetics. Probably more doable to be honest. But I want to know what people think of the above.

It's a nice idea, but one downside is that a considerable amount of content (not to mention dev effort) would be locked behind an obscene EXP wall. It will take a lot longer to go from 25-50 than from 0-25, so a lot fewer people will ever be able to try it and give feedback that will contribute to balancing.

The above issue aside, I don't think there should be any functional changes to the perk after hitting 25. There should be a hard cap on how much you can improve your power through leveling, and everything else after that should be just for fun. Weapons skins, wearables, or perhaps special effects like I suggested above. Otherwise we risk level 25s getting kicked from HoE because OMG you don't have the ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY alternative zed time skill for level 50!!!

In fact, I don't think levels beyond 25 should even exist. No matter how much experience you get after hitting level 25, you should still show as 25. That tells your fellow players all they need to know: you have unlocked all the skills and are playing at maximum power. Anything more will just lead to more arguments about lower level players being less skilled, even when everyone is level 25+. Not to mention all the potential bugs like level 100 medic getting 400 armor and running across the entire map in 2 seconds because somebody forgot to cap the scaling stats at 25. Further experience after level 25 can unlock fun things, sure, but your level shouldn't increase beyond 25.

 

[Ryno5660]

I can get behind that too, you have good points! Even aS I wrote it I thought of how it takes long enough to hit 25.

Cosmetics, then! Seems to be the best middle ground reward-wise if there are going to be such things for progression. Special cosmetics! Ones that you cannot find in crates or in circulation. I don't know about the rules behind trading or marketing it but it seems to be the most "win-win" thing if a system past max level existed.

 

[Lorkenpeist]

I'm thinking non-tradable, non-purchasable unique weapon skins/wearables for each perk.

 

[Ryno5660]

What about perk-centric characters? Maybe some from before? I know a lot of them live on in items mainly, like the Welding Mask. Some could make a comeback though, alongside new ones.

Perk-centric cosmetics are also a good idea, I always like an item which I can tie to a perk. I have largely done the same thing with the characters too!

 

[Lorkenpeist]

What about perk-centric characters? Maybe some from before? I know a lot of them live on in items mainly, like the Welding Mask. Some could make a comeback though, alongside new ones.

Perk-centric cosmetics are also a good idea, I always like an item which I can tie to a perk. I have largely done the same thing with the characters too!

Perk-themed characters sounds pretty sweet! Obviously you would be able to use the character with any perk, because you can't exactly change characters mid-game if you want to change perks. But something perk-themed certainly sounds good to me.

 

[Ryno5660]

Oh yes they'd be like any character, just focused towards a specific perk in personality/appearance. Like a Demo guy with 40mm webbing and explosives satchels etc? Or a bomb suit!