The problems with Pistols:

[Guggy]

I really wish that they lessened the amount of kills required for the vast majority of upgrades by at least 50% honestly. Some of them (as mentioned) just seem silly and excessive.

 

[Frostedfire]

as I said on a server last night, it's worse than getting commando 5

 

[Gaizokubanou]

I would like to see what a "good" progression/unlock system means, since by definition this means that because you have played the game for an arbitrary length of time/kills/points/etc you are simply better than the newer player at doing things.

...

*on this note, but less related to ro2, sidegrades are a grey area, especially when they are significantly different - why should the player spend time using a crappy gun/playstyle they don't like trying to unlock one they do?

Good progression/unlocks would reward players with, as you brought up in the end, side-grades and cosmetics. So perhaps progression is a misleading word since nobody would truly "progress", but rather, just get whole bunch of side-grades and cool looking costumes or whatever. But people still call them progression system because they still attach some sort of ranking to you which has no relevance to how your avatar/character performs.

I'm not sure why you brought up "crappy gun" when you mentioned side-grades because by definition, all guns are equal and the gun you start off with would be anything but "crappy".

Not perfect but a decent example of this is done in BF3 where your starter guns, especially the M16/M4, are the most user friendly and arguably the best weapon there is. Poor example of this would be RO2 where your character gets straight up stronger than newer character, or BF3's vehicle where unlocks are again, straight up upgrades. Still it's bit less offensive than RO2 though since you can get unlocks so fast in that game. To give perspective of just how time consuming and newbie unfriendly RO2's unlocks are, in BF3 I clocked in about 105 hours and have all guns unlocked, all unlocks for IFV/AA/Tanks, all attachments for 20+ guns, etc. RO2? 120ish hours clocked in and only got MG32 to level 50 (and that's after shameful bot farming). Highest level I got from normal play in that 120 hours is DP28 at level 36. Rest are lvl 0 or 19ish.

I read that CoD:BO did it even better by awarding players points, which can be used to purchase any upgrade meaning that you were allowed to get your favorite attachments pretty much on the first batch of unlocks. But I never played that so not sure if the same falls under guns.

Gotham City Impostors also let you choose your next gun/attachment and you get separate coin reward for cosmetics, so no need for "farming" to get your favorite guns (something that BF3 is guilty of) and looks either.

I guess GCI does the best form of progression/unlock. In GCI, you can have your favorite selection of weapon/perks in about... 2~3 hours of casual play?

RO2 and Tribes Ascend are two big culprits of bad progression/unlocks as both feature stuff that makes your guy straight up stronger than lower level characters.

Edit: Oh and if you think having more incentive to play because of progression/unlock is silly... remember the whole idea of video game is that it's just an illusion. Nothing tangible is being accomplished when 99% of gamers play. So what's wrong with enjoying these silly bonuses when nothing about it is serious?

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

Point went over your head.

A grind is supposed to be a grind. The point is so you rack up more and more kills to get unlocks. It is not supposed to be easy or else the feature would not exist. Why make it easier? Doesn't matter if it is for pistols, rifles, or laser beams. You're not supposed to be able to get all unlocks within hours as this feature, by design, is supposed to keep players coming back to play more.

You're undermining the point of the grind/progression.

I have no issue "Grinding" in such a system so long as I don't have to grind for 9 months to get only one level up for one weapon (AT Rifle)

If my weapons leveled up around once every two weeks, sure, that's a decent grinding time and that's basically where most of the RO2 weapons are at for me anyways..... but I hate with an absolute passion the grinding systems in games like Battlefield where you end up playing for half a year or up to two years (on and off) playing & grinding and the progression system tosses you a friggin bone for your efforts after all that time & then doubles the progression time for the next item.

^ That's where the pistols & ATR are right now in RO2 for me..... 9 months of playing the game and my pistols are all around level 6..... no where near the level 25 for the first set of unlocks. As projected, I won't come close to those next unlocks for a damn long time.

If the pistols and the ATR all leveled up in a balanced manner similar to the rest of the weapons in RO2, I'd be happy, but as another poster showed, the requirements for the pistols are ridiculously higher than many of the primary weapons in the game.... which is compounded by the fact that you don't use those weapons as often as your primary weapons, thus the progression of those weapons takes even longer.

That's the problem.

Sure, progression systems are designed in a way that you have to do some level of grinding..... but for these specific weapons, the grinding is way out of proportion to the rest of the weapons.

By the time I finally get every single thing progressed & unlocked in RO2 (pistols / ATR included) RO3 will have been out for several months..... I don't mind waiting and grinding to try and get everything that the game provides, but I don't want to be doing it until I'm in a retirement home.