The problems with Pistols:

[Gudenrath]

He goes into the cap when people who went in before him - those he was supposed to cover on their way inside - has secured the area so he can move up without being shot while on the move. Another way to play as MGer is to defend the certain area from the enemy, allowing rest of the team to catch up and arrive somewhat safely before the enemy will be able to lockdown the area.

I agree with you on that one. And what I meant was also that instead of sitting on a hill near the first spawn for the duration of the game, he should follow the squad and provide cover for the advance, and yes that also implies moving into cap zones to provide suppressing fire on the enemy trying to counterattack.

However it must be said that skilled machinegunners are perfectly able to move in the first wave and provide cover fire for the spearhead, and those are actually the most effective ones, but of course that can't be asked of everyone.

 

[Clowndoe]

Personally I couldn't care less how fast pistols level-up because the upgrades on them are garbage. No hate of course but I can still use my P38 very well without a black handgrip, and if I ever get the silencer on the Nagant revolver I won't even use it. But if people really want them I think they should lower the number of kills needed because one, the upgrades are harmless, and two, you don't use them as much as a primary.

As someone who can't judge Action for having never tried it, I would still agree that pistols shouldn't take much longer than other guns to kill someone.

 

[LordKhaine]

Personally I couldn't care less how fast pistols level-up because the upgrades on them are garbage.

Guessing you haven't seen the C96 unlock then?

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

I never did know that an AT rifle was a pistol

Well no, it's not a pistol, but it's another weapon that suffers from the same issues with the progression system as the pistols.....

.... if I could update my Thread Title to "The Problem with Pistols & AT-Rifle" I would.... however Problem #2 I mentioned in the OP wouldn't apply to AT-Rifles, as they're still deadly in Action Mode.

The AT-Rifles issues with the progression system came to mind after I created the thread.

Sorry, I haven't yet completed my time machine.

 

[r5cya]

Guessing you haven't seen the C96 unlock then?

killed a guy with one of those the other day. awesome. that thing rocks. killed one guy with it, then wanted to run to safety with my "new toy"!

 

[Waltz]

I have to agree with Cpt-Praxius about the pistols and AT rifle being screwed over by the progression system. It always sucks disabling the tank and getting set up for a kill **** with the ATR and somebody else takes the kill from you and you get diddly squat. It makes leveling the ATR so hard since it needs an enormous amount of kills to just level the thing. The farthest I have gotten any AT rifle is to level 2.

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

I have to agree with Cpt-Praxius about the pistols and AT rifle being screwed over by the progression system. It always sucks disabling the tank and getting set up for a kill **** with the ATR and somebody else takes the kill from you and you get diddly squat. It makes leveling the ATR so hard since it needs an enormous amount of kills to just level the thing. The farthest I have gotten any AT rifle is to level 2.

I think I'm near level 2 now.... which is from me playing since original launch.

Which is all compounded by being able to select the role when available against other players on your team, being able to play on maps that have the AT-Class available in the first place, actually having an enemy team using a tank that you can shoot at.... and of course the progression system setting the bar pretty high for leveling the ATR.

I also had my ATR progression hindered for a few months due to the bug where you'd get resupplied a satchel rather than ammo for your ATR, so you either had to wait around for about 5 minutes for the next resupply to properly give you ammo (being 5 minutes where you weren't shooting at the enemy) or toss the weapon and run around with AT Grenades & Satchels so you're a use to your team still (Zero chance of leveling up the ATR)

And if you died / respawned, the above bug occurred again.

That issue has been fixed since then, but with all of the above added up, it makes for a difficult leveling process for the AT-Rifles which takes far longer than most other weapons.

 

[Flogger23m]

Now I could either grind the bots with the pistols in order to level them up faster...

From the guy who essentially defended the unlocks in countless other threads. You got what you wanted, why not enjoy the grind?

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

From the guy who essentially defended the unlocks in countless other threads. You got what you wanted, why not enjoy the grind?

If you bothered to actually follow along & pay attention, you'd know I never had any issue with minor adjustments to the progression system to make it better, but I was always opposed to the complete removal of the system which some in here have been requesting.

As complicated as it may seem to you to, there's a difference.

And obviously from posts from other members in this thread alone, I'm not the only one who likes the progression system, yet thinks it could use some improvement in some areas.

 

[r5cya]

From the guy who essentially defended the unlocks in countless other threads. You got what you wanted, why not enjoy the grind?

stick to the gaming forum.

 

[Flogger23m]

If you bothered to actually follow along & pay attention, you'd know I never had any issue with minor adjustments to the progression system to make it better...

Depends what your definition of "better" is. Apparently, your own view is superior to others.

Some might enjoy the grind (hence the point of such a system in the first place). Why make a progression system yet make it easy to level up? The point is to make it a grind to reward players for getting kills. Why keep the system if you destroy the point behind the entire feature?

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

Depends what your definition of "better" is. Apparently, your own view is superior to others.

Apparently you say?

Well thank you for thinking my view is superior to others, but I never made such a claim.

I posted what I believe.... I'm not one of "Those" people who come all up in here and Demand things to be changed to how I think they should because I think my view is superior. I state what makes sense, I throw it out there and let others chew on it for a bit.... if the devs decide to take action on it because it makes sense, then so be it, all the better.

If they don't, it's no skin off my back and I'm not going to stomp my feet and pout like a little child like some others do.

Some might enjoy the grind (hence the point of such a system in the first place). Why make a progression system yet make it easy to level up? The point is to make it a grind to reward players for getting kills. Why keep the system if you destroy the point behind the entire feature?

I am not trying to destroy the system or the entire feature..... I am perfectly fine with how the system works for everything else in the game, with the exception of the pistols and the AT Rifle.

Could the system progress faster than it currently does? IMO, yes it could, but I'm perfectly fine with how it is right now.

And rather than going on the holy crusade against me and trying to finger wag at me being contradictory, perhaps you should re-read what I typed in here already:

"I created this thread in order to discuss ways of improving or changing some of the progression system's elements based on the weapons/equipment that suffer the most from it compared to other weapons/equipment that level just fine."

^ This should have been clear enough on my position where I said other weapons are just fine with progression. There's just a couple that don't work so well with the system.

And I'm obviously not alone in my reasoning based on those who have already posted similar opinions as my own.

Now if you want to try and create an argument out of nothing just for the sake of trying to sound smart, be my guest.

 

[Proud_God]

<- waiting for the day everyone is lvl 99 on everything, so this whole leveling thing is over, done & forgotten (which has its own problems since lvl 99 stats are mostly too effective)

 

[Mike 78]

Play classic mode pussies...

 

[Nightingale]

Play classic mode pussies...

Good God are you Einstein's ghost? This is the most mother****ing genius idea I've ever read. There should be a Nobel Prize Award for Logic & Philosophy, and you should be its first reciever.

 

[Trotskygrad]

Play classic mode pussies...

I grind on classic

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

Play classic mode pussies...

Classic Mode? What's what?

Sounds dumb.

 

[Flogger23m]

I am not trying to destroy the system or the entire feature...

Point went over your head.

A grind is supposed to be a grind. The point is so you rack up more and more kills to get unlocks. It is not supposed to be easy or else the feature would not exist. Why make it easier? Doesn't matter if it is for pistols, rifles, or laser beams. You're not supposed to be able to get all unlocks within hours as this feature, by design, is supposed to keep players coming back to play more.

You're undermining the point of the grind/progression.

For the record, I think getting kills to unlock stuff is pointless and is a feature that is tossed in to cover up poor gameplay. I just find it odd that someone can defend the feature, yet undermine the very merits of its existence.

Classic Mode? What's what?

Sounds dumb.

Doesn't sound as dumb as the battle cries the Soviets shout off every time they make an impressive feat, like walking or turning a corner.

 

[Gaizokubanou]

Point went over your head.

A grind is supposed to be a grind. The point is so you rack up more and more kills to get unlocks. It is not supposed to be easy or else the feature would not exist. Why make it easier? Doesn't matter if it is for pistols, rifles, or laser beams. You're not supposed to be able to get all unlocks within hours as this feature, by design, is supposed to keep players coming back to play more.

You're undermining the point of the grind/progression.

Not necessarily. You have a valid point that yes, unlocks that take x number of kill is meant to be a time sink. But there is also a day-and-night difference between requiring 6600 kill points (that's approximate requirement to max out MG32 for example) and say, 1000 kill points. Both require grind, but the difference in amount is there. And the difference is much more than a fine gray line. More like those yellow lines on the road.

For the record, I think getting kills to unlock stuff is pointless and is a feature that is tossed in to cover up poor gameplay. I just find it odd that someone can defend the feature, yet undermine the very merits of its existence.

Not necessarily.

You are again right that it is often it is used to cover bad gameplay, but there is also a legitimate problem that having progression/unlock meta system can solve.

The problem is that in all competitive multiplayer games (by competitive I don't mean tournaments, rather I mean playing against each other), about half of the game's population is bound to be losing more than winning. That's inevitable. So unless you somehow managed to attract over 50% of your online community to be odd variation of masochists who take pleasure in getting pwned in a video game, the population is bound to bleed out over time (except for the hardcore competitors who enjoy the challenge itself, but that is often very tiny group). FPS games doesn't suffer as much from this as say, RTS because losing (dying) is often much more forgiving, but it still adds up after weeks of gaming.

So how does progression/unlock meta system help here? It does by giving sense of 'winning/accomplishment' to everyone regardless of their performance. Even if you played a horrible round in TE where you died 15x trying to get into the cap zone, and only fragged 2 guys during the whole match, a good progression/unlock system will give that poor player a sense of job done, albeit very small one, but better than remembering getting pwned all match long. This helps the game to retain bigger population for longer time.

One might say, "who wants those CoD/unlock/progression loving noobs here in RO2 anyway?". I say let's not get too elitist because really, it doesn't matter who is playing (remember, there is a difference between playing and making decision on how the game is to be played), more people playing RO2 cannot hurt.

 

[Frostedfire]

So how does progression/unlock meta system help here? It does by giving sense of 'winning/accomplishment' to everyone regardless of their performance. Even if you played a horrible round in TE where you died 15x trying to get into the cap zone, and only fragged 2 guys during the whole match, a good progression/unlock system will give that poor player a sense of job done, albeit very small one, but better than remembering getting pwned all match long. This helps the game to retain bigger population for longer time.

One might say, "who wants those CoD/unlock/progression loving noobs here in RO2 anyway?". I say let's not get too elitist because really, it doesn't matter who is playing (remember, there is a difference between playing and making decision on how the game is to be played), more people playing RO2 cannot hurt.

I would like to see what a "good" progression/unlock system means, since by definition this means that because you have played the game for an arbitrary length of time/kills/points/etc you are simply better than the newer player at doing things. It's like creating a completely generic "mr 16-year-old" and putting him in a boxing ring against another generic "mr 22-year-old", mr 16-year-old is simply not as well developed physically (or as heavy) as mr 22-year-old and will get his arse kicked as a result. We have all been there, we have all played one of the other multiplayer fps-es (even killing floor ) and (got)berated because we/someone else was a rank 1 newb who didn't have any of the good equipment and bonuses yet.

I can understand rewarding certain things eg the UT announcer going m-m-m-m-monster kill (or everyone's favourite, heaaad shoooot ) or getting the *ching* sound when you hit someone with a disc/grenade in tribes, because everyone likes being fed lollies (or sweets, or whatever it is where you live ) to keep playing, kind of like the pokies rewarding you every so often with another 5c payout . However, a system which gives upgrades* to people who have played for longer is itself excluding and elitist, just as much as putting the poor 3-day-pass newbies on te-station or fallenfighters to make them rage-quit from not being able to see where they got shot from.



*on this note, but less related to ro2, sidegrades are a grey area, especially when they are significantly different - why should the player spend time using a crappy gun/playstyle they don't like trying to unlock one they do?