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The power of rifles rounds

CheckYour6

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 20, 2011
36
48
0
So have rifles been buffed before the release? Because when I was watching some older gameplay footage around 2-3 months ago, bolt-action rifles didn't kill instantly to any part of torso unless the bullet went straight through somebody's heart and I thought it was kind of cool.

The major benefit of a bolt-action rifle would be accuracy rather than raw power which it always has in arcade games.

But as of September 13th, they have been at CoD2 power, every hit to upper body seems to result in an instant kill.

Seriously, it's not that hard to put 2 rounds on a single target when you're safe behind some cover and only need to pop your head up for a fraction of a second to fire a single shot.
 
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Heilkraut

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 18, 2011
76
11
0
The Reich
your complain makes no sense somehow....

if u got hit in everything else thats not legs or arms u usually out of combat
i mean they could change it that ur laying there without being able to shoot for a while but i doubt that this is what u want

after a hit into torso or head to be still able to hand out some kill shots that is call of duty style not the way around :confused:
 

Panzer Jager '43

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 15, 2010
1,169
218
0
Battle Rifle cartridges have a very high incapacitation rate, even though death may be quite slow on average from them compared to hollow-point bullets of the same cartridge.

Since Tripwire is going for incapacitation with their death system, one round to the torso is pretty realistic. Stomach shots *may* result in "slow death" so be warned.
 

Nenjin

Grizzled Veteran
Apr 30, 2009
3,879
480
83
Sub-Level 12
The issue right now is that many rifle rounds, instead of doing waht Panzer Jager says above, somehow get down-graded to bandagable wounds. TWI (or at least some of them) are aware of it on their end, so we're hoping that in the end, any rifle round you take above the waist and not in the arm will end you.
 
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FoulOleRon

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 7, 2011
57
10
0
...so we're hoping that in the end, any rifle round you take above the waist and not in the arm will end you.
That's the way it should be, yep. Battle rifle rounds to head or torso should have you out of there. Through the stomach could maybe give you the brief lingering death sometimes. SMG rounds could be more variable.
 

Nenjin

Grizzled Veteran
Apr 30, 2009
3,879
480
83
Sub-Level 12
I don't think body shots should be instant kills, TBH. That would completely remove the reason for the heart shot. Anything in the gut or chest but not in a "vital" area should be that slow 4 to 7 second death. Which is how it works about....30% of the time I'd say.

Really bandages should just be for arm and leg wounds. I know that doesn't perfectly capture all kinds of wounds you can get (like getting shot through your side, for example, that's actually survivable.)

However, the game doesn't seem to be able to track "grazing" wounds very well. Many direct body shots get interpreted as grazing, bandagable wounds, while the player saw nothing but round chewing through center torso.

If the hit detection in RO2 was so amazing that our grazing shots to the body could actually be recognized correctly...that'd be sweet. But I don't think it can really get down to that level of precision. And ultimately, players need to know that when they put one in center mass, it's getting read like that. Anything less feels like a bug or feels arbitrary, whether it is or not.

So yeah. In essence I think bandages should really only be possible to use for arm and leg wounds, because 99% of body shots should be fatal.
 
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aop

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 28, 2006
242
67
0
So have rifles been buffed before the release? Because when I was watching some older gameplay footage around 2-3 months ago, bolt-action rifles didn't kill instantly to upper torso unless the bullet went straight through somebody's heart and I thought it was kind of cool.

The major benefit of a bolt-action rifle would be accuracy rather than raw power which it always has in arcade games.

But as of September 13th, they have been at CoD2 power, every hit to upper body seems to result in an instant kill.

Seriously, it's not that hard to put 2 rounds on a single target when you're safe behind some cover and only need to pop your head up for a fraction of a second to fire a single shot.
There is a lot more stuff than just heart in upper body that can cause instant or very nearly instant death.

Big arteries are one. Getting hit in aorta is pretty much the same as getting hit in heart. Carotid arteries deliver the blood to brain and if they get hit it leads to instant blood pressure drop in brain and unconsciousness followed by death. Hitting subclavian artery should also result in unconsciousness in couple a seconds. Descending aorta is one of the biggest arteries in our bodies and hitting it should be rapid death too.

Here's an image stolen from Wikipedia:

Remember that these arteries can be ruptured by bullet passing nearby (temporal cavity).

In addition to those arteries there are lot's of instant kill/disable areas in our upper body. Separating spine causes paralysis, getting hit in lungs by large caliber bullet makes you as combat effective as dead body. Both liver and spleen have ****load of blood vessels and getting hit in those should cause bleeding to death.

Another picture stolen:


Pretty much everything above the pancreas is instant kill/disable zone.
 

tw.ed.uk

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 18, 2011
12
1
0
OP, you have been watching too many Hollywood movies. For most people, a bullet in a limb will render them combat-ineffective. They won't be able to use a rifle from an arm hit, and won't be able to stand from a leg hit. A torso hit will eventually result in unconsciousness, the speed of which depends on what organs were hit.

Making it even more difficult for rifleman is just a bizarre request. It's already difficult enough for riflemen to do well given how many semi-auto and auto weapons there are most of the time.

I think TWI already has the correct balance between fun and realism.
 

CheckYour6

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 20, 2011
36
48
0
your complain makes no sense somehow....

if u got hit in everything else thats not legs or arms u usually out of combat
i mean they could change it that ur laying there without being able to shoot for a while but i doubt that this is what u want

after a hit into torso or head to be still able to hand out some kill shots that is call of duty style not the way around :confused:
I'm complaining and I'm don't want any flaming. I asked how you liked the transition and nobody answered just bash. I also want to know how it felt in the Beta.

IMO
There is a lot more stuff than just heart in upper body that can cause instant or very nearly instant death.

Big arteries are one. Getting hit in aorta is pretty much the same as getting hit in heart. Carotid arteries deliver the blood to brain and if they get hit it leads to instant blood pressure drop in brain and unconsciousness followed by death. Hitting subclavian artery should also result in unconsciousness in couple a seconds. Descending aorta is one of the biggest arteries in our bodies and hitting it should be rapid death too.

Here's an image stolen from Wikipedia:

Remember that these arteries can be ruptured by bullet passing nearby (temporal cavity).

In addition to those arteries there are lot's of instant kill/disable areas in our upper body. Separating spine causes paralysis, getting hit in lungs by large caliber bullet makes you as combat effective as dead body. Both liver and spleen have ****load of blood vessels and getting hit in those should cause bleeding to death.

Another picture stolen:


Pretty much everything above the pancreas is instant kill/disable zone.
You're just supporting my opinon, so thank you. The should be non-OHK zones in upper body. Right now, there don't seem to be any.
 

Citzen_Snips

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 8, 2011
46
20
0
Why can't someone complain about the pistols. It's possible to take two P38 rounds in the neck from 38m...
 

heady89

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 6, 2007
630
236
0
Sweden, Linkoping/Mjolby
This is the worst suggestion i've seen in quite a while, seriously you want to nerf the bolts? The bolts are perfect as they are and the should certainly pack-a-punch and kill with one shot. (You trade quantity for quality/range)
 

CheckYour6

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 20, 2011
36
48
0
This is the worst suggestion i've seen in quite a while,
Are there any hits of this being a "suggestion"? It's more of brainstorming or it would be if many of you didn't act like butthurt kiddies having their favourite toy being taken away.
seriously you want to nerf the bolts?
Why only bolts? Don't semi-auto rifles do the same damage?
The bolts are perfect as they are and the should certainly pack-a-punch and kill with one shot.
I read your post as "rail guns FTW"
(You trade quantity for quality/range)
They're not harmless at CQC, are they? I actually prefer semi-auto rifles for indoor combat over any submachine gun.
 
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Fin-

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 1, 2006
3
0
0
Finland
In my opinion this whole conversation is moot. Regardless of where you're hit - especially in the torso - the first round would almost certainly render you immediately combat ineffective even if the wound wasn't instantly fatal, or even fatal at all.

In game terms this should result in instant death, ie. the player's loss of control over their character to prevent the very gamey I'm-not-dead-yet kills whether the soldier actually died or not (my record is four Russians mowed down with the MG34 before I toppled over on them from fatal bleeding), much like crews are confined in their vehicles, bailing out simulated by the scuttle function rather than letting people go Rambo with their pistols in an extremely arcade fashion.
 

StaIin1878

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 17, 2011
36
18
0
I vote OP goes and takes a full sized battle cartridge to the chest and report back...

What a noob :D
 

Alperce

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 13, 2011
447
240
0
Portugal
I just think OP has never actually seen a WW2 bolt action rifle "wound", if you can simply call that a wound.
 

Holy.Death

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 17, 2011
1,427
91
0
CheckYour6 said:
Seriously, it's not that hard to put 2 rounds on a single target when you're safe behind some cover and only need to pop your head up for a fraction of a second to fire a single shot.
It is, actually, when said target is mobile and uses smart tactics like moving from cover to cover in less than three seconds. Bolt-action rifle needs to be bolted so you have to make your shoot count. Each time you can lay hit on someone you expose yourself for anyone who could saw you shooting. It's not that easy to shoot people safely or multiple times.

I have to say that shooting the upper body and getting kill most of the time is good. I've bandaged myself on a couple of occasions when suffered arm or leg wound (the game shows what area of the body has been damaged, I think). I don't have problem with that to be honest.
 
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OnCrack

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 15, 2009
159
100
0
I don't think body shots should be instant kills, TBH. That would completely remove the reason for the heart shot. Anything in the gut or chest but not in a "vital" area should be that slow 4 to 7 second death. Which is how it works about....30% of the time I'd say.
Excuse me? Let's say a rifleman hits a smg gunner in the chest from like 10-20 (but even up to 60-70) meters, by the time he rebolted the rifle the smg is able to unload a mag on the poor guy, because there is no penalty/knock out for slow death, no impact no nothing or whatsoever...
I am not used to battlefield gameplay like you are but this seem a bit too much to me.