The people's tank

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The people's tank


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Field Marshal Rommel

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With only 130 KV-85's produced I don't think they will add them in there.
175 Panzer IV F2's produced.
The Stug III f/8 is none too common either only 334 produced.
The only realistic way to add tanks is to add them if they were involved in the battle being portrayed.

Basically the Kv-85 is a better armored version than the T-34/85 since its gun had similar penetration to the T-34/85. Although unless Im mistaken all were destroyed before the T-34/85 cameout.
 
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Dietrich-34.F

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Oct 12, 2006
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The question of which vehicle to add next is certainly an interesting one, and great fun to debate too. But is Tripwire still developing for RO? I guess the real question is what can they add to the game to bring in new players. After all, for 99.9% of us, we've already bought the game, so they'll not be getting more money out of us.

There are a couple answers to this:
  • KingTigerII - which may bring in some more people who are interested in that tank from a curiousity or pwn1ng point of view.
  • Early war vehicles - which may appeal to some "realism" folk, who have so far stayed away from RO as it was too "mainstream".

Remember, the above are not for us - we've already bought RO. It would be to get new players.

However, I think the best option would be for Tripwire to introduce a "pay-for-it" expansion pack. Most of us here would buy it to get extra vehicles for whatever reason. Throw in a couple of tank destroyers on either side , some armoured cars, some early war tanks and some late war super-tanks, and a large proportion of the community would go for it. Tripwire would get some more money (it is, after all, a business for them) and most of us would get our favourite pet vehicles.
 

Ullis

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Nov 18, 2006
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I guess the real question is what can they add to the game to bring in new players. After all, for 99.9% of us, we've already bought the game, so they'll not be getting more money out of us.

I hope your point of view is too narrow.

Tripwire will be getting more money from us:
1. if they develop a new game since our buying decisions will be based mostly on whether we loved RO so much as to buy any game Tripwire makes,
2. when we gush to our friends as to how great RO is and how much the developers love the players, which will lead them to buy RO as well and
3. new people buy the game because so many people are already playing it, which entails that new stuff (King Tigers i.e) props up.

All three points should entice Tripwire to keep adding new vehicles and guns and maps and japanese swords (I wish)even though the people who've already bought RO will be getting them for free.

Additionally, nobody's gonna buy RO just for the fact that it contains the King Tiger.
 
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DAT

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 3, 2006
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If the king tiger is introduced is it gonna be modeled accurately so that it can be easily mired or bogged down. Or that most bridges dont have the capacity, or that sharp turns off road will snap road wheels and break torsion bars or that it needs boresighting after about 20 main gun rounds... otherwise we are gonna have some uber tank on the battle field with nothing to counter it.
 

Recce

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 31, 2006
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....needs boresighting after about 20 main gun rounds...
Sounds like you've done this for a living.

I've played on a version of Arad, packed with Tiger, Panthers and JS-2s. IMHO, it's the worst version of Arad I've played. The only map that comes close to beng large enough for a King Tiger is Orel, and that would need the increased distances turned on. And a lot of people don't like Orel, because it's so large.
Finally, if the King Tiger was implemented, it would just fuel the debate / arguments about the strength of armour and gun in RO:OST.

To close, a little bit of eye-candy. Here's a King Tiger's 88 KwK43 shell alongside a 88mm shell for a Flak 18, this being the gun that that Tiger's KwK36 is based on.
KwK43-04.jpg
 

18Bravo

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 31, 2006
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Wonder what would happen if they didn't add the tiger2, and added a jagdtiger instead. No turret, but it would have a gun close to the siz of the IS2.
 

Zhukov

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 5, 2006
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The tank I would like to see in game is the Su-85 or a T-43.

Wonder what would happen if they didn't add the tiger2, and added a jagdtiger instead. No turret, but it would have a gun close to the siz of the IS2.

In caliber only!! In performance the Jadtiger would come out on top even the Tiger I E (in game) has very similar penetration /power as the 122m (AP ammuntion). Why add a rarer verison of the Tiger II that was mostly deployed in the West and only 70 were built? Why not just add the tank most people have been crying about since the begining (type Tiger II in search). Well in anycase I guess it does not really matter since the Tiger II B will be added in at least 1 up comming mod.
If the king tiger is introduced is it gonna be modeled accurately so that it can be easily mired or bogged down. Or that most bridges dont have the capacity, or that sharp turns off road will snap road wheels and break torsion bars or that it needs boresighting after about 20 main gun rounds... otherwise we are gonna have some uber tank on the battle field with nothing to counter it.
Some Tiger II stuff:
Sharp turns will not snap the road wheels someone even posted a vid /clip of a Tiger II using its full regenerative steering. Heres the link from page4
It was long range driving that caused an eventual break down of the Tiger II.
boresighting after 20 rounds that seems like a gross exaggeration.

Uber tank ? Just think of it as an IS-2 it has pretty close armor to it. So just come at the Tiger II from the sides this with a bit of limiting should make the Tiger II a hard target to destroy but doable(realistic just requires a bit of tactics instead of run and gun) its also compareable to the first Tiger when it first cameout since nothing at the time was able to penetrate its forward armor. As for its 88mm gun although its much more powerful than the Tiger I very few tanks could stand up to the Tiger I's 88 (in game only tank that could:IS-2) so should should not perform that much differnetly except that it could kill the IS-2 at longer ranges.
tanks to couter the Tiger II

-T-34/85 from sides same armor as Tiger I
-Is-2 some good accounts of IS-2's taking down Tiger II's on battlefield.ru
-sneaky infantry
 
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A-tree

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 3, 2006
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However, I think the best option would be for Tripwire to introduce a "pay-for-it" expansion pack. Most of us here would buy it to get extra vehicles for whatever reason. Throw in a couple of tank destroyers on either side , some armoured cars, some early war tanks and some late war super-tanks, and a large proportion of the community would go for it. Tripwire would get some more money (it is, after all, a business for them) and most of us would get our favourite pet vehicles.
I hope not. But if they do I would expect the same amount as stuff as is in the retail version of RO, because my local games shop is gonna be selling it to me at the same price.
Plus theres the whole dividing the community thing.
 

jedinstven-o crni Wuk

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 3, 2006
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Wonder what would happen if they didn't add the tiger2, and added a jagdtiger instead. No turret, but it would have a gun close to the siz of the IS2.

jagdtiger would be a overkill!

If any new heavy tank killer then the jagdpanther.

the jagdpanther had thelong barrelled 88mm Pak 43/3 L/71 gun so far i know. So penetration ability would be very similar to tigers II gun. No problem to crack any allied tank on distances up to 3000m.
 

dogbadger

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 19, 2006
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The people who want early war tanks don't seem to know anything about them and are forgetting 2 things.
go on..
1. We have no maps for early war tanks!
I know basovka is the only stock map i can think of during barbarossa (22june-dec 1941), and this map is inf only, but maybe thats 'cos these tanks aren't modeled? People make maps you know.
2. Early tanks like the PzII are going to be useless unless they have APCR rounds. I don't want crap tanks in RO that have to be over powered to be of any use.
They might have had their shortcomings as the Germans were aware but 746 were apparently deployed for the assault on Russia, which went quite well in the begining to say the least. There were also 722 Panzer38(t) ,so both these tanks outnumbered the p4's at the start.
So despite these tanks and BT-7's for example being used on the easternfront in fairly high numbers, people are wrong to want to see them in game? I dont understand your objection sorry. Dont worry about balance- skilled mapmakers will work that out. Many maps already favour one side- until the time limit is introduced for example.

Id like to see the aformentioned tanks but more so lease lend Shermans and the KV-1e.
Whatever gets added if anything at all, the Barbarossa era of the easternfront is under represented IMO.
 

Sichartshofen

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Nov 21, 2005
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dogbadger said:
I know basovka is the only stock map i can think of during barbarossa (22june-dec 1941), and this map is inf only, but maybe thats 'cos these tanks aren't modeled? People make maps you know.
Basovka is just a renamed Ponyri that was a Kursk map in the mod. A couple PzIV F1's is about all you can fit on there reasonably.

I dont understand your objection sorry.
For early tanks we need maps for them. A decent map takes atleast a month to make. New vehicles take time to make and we would need atleast 4 of them like the PzIII J, PzII, BT7 and T26.

jagdtiger would be a overkill!
The IS-2 with the 122mm gun isn't?
 
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Zhukov

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 5, 2006
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the PzIII J, PzII, BT7 and T26.
I can add more:
T-70 ,T-28, T-80, KV-2, Kv-1a, and for the Germans Panzer III J, early and late, Panzer III H, and Panzer 38(t)
Small thing about early russian tanks early tanks is that even though most of these tanks were outdated they were used in force until at least 1943 as was seen on the Kursk offensive my point being these tanks should not just be classified as "early war" tanks but as early to at least mid war tanks although I have seen evidence of t-60's being used well into 1944.

They might have had their shortcomings as the Germans were aware but 746 were apparently deployed for the assault on Russia, which went quite well in the begining to say the least. There were also 722 Panzer38(t) ,so both these tanks outnumbered the p4's at the start.

Actually the Panzer II F (most common variant found in east also last variant) was not a very good tank the Germans felt by 1941 that it was ineffective because of its poor armor protection and because of its ineffective 20mm gun(mainly due to French, Polish and Soviet armor) which was why at the end of 41 the Panzer II's were mainly a command tank and were virtually secondline vehicles by 1943 they were mainly behindlines to keep the peace in occupied nations very rare handfuls saw frontline combat after 1942. The Panzer 38(t) has a similar story to the Panzer II although both chasis were used for self propelled guns.
I was under the Impression that at the start of Barbarossa the Germans had more Panzer III's (the PzIV was not common until 1942-1943)than either Panzer II or Panzer 38(t) although in the begining the Panzer III was not much different than the Panzer III 38 except in better armor protection but by mid to late 1941 the Panzer III J early and late and later in 1942 the L became quite effective at kill most Soviet tanks.

Basovka is just a renamed Ponyri that was a Kursk map in the mod. A couple PzIV F1's is about all you can fit on there reasonably.
ah so thats why theres a texture and or static mesh file in the editor named "Ponyri". So I guess rawkowice(hope I spelled it correctly) is the mod verison of "Pitomnik" since I keep coming across this file in the editor. :(
 

dogbadger

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 19, 2006
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Basovka is just a renamed Ponyri that was a Kursk map in the mod. A couple PzIV F1's is about all you can fit on there reasonably.
I was not suggesting this map suddenly be filled with early war tanks. I was agreeing that mid-end of '41 maps were under-represented. The fact that it was origionally a map based on action 2 years later in 2.0, then shifted back in time phaps backs this up.

You say you dont want a tank like, for example, the PII in RO cos they were 'crap tanks'. Well nevertheless the Germans used them, the Russians faced them, so I would like to play them.
The poll suggests i am hardly a trailblazer here....
Also you said they should not be introduced because the maps aren't there for them. Again, it obviously doesn't mean maps cant be made at 1st with stopgap tanks while new ones are being completed. Beresina will apparently add a BT7 at a later date, for example.
The lack-of-map argument i can't understand, so i take it you simply dislike the tanks in question - or the possibility of one side's superiority?
I only replied because your origional post-
The people who want early war tanks don't seem to know anything about them and are forgetting 2 things.
-suggested not only a passionate objection to early war tanks, but thought the ppl who were for them were ignorant and absent minded. I just wanted to be put straight.
 

HansGering

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 7, 2006
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-Is-2 some good accounts of IS-2's taking down Tiger II's on battlefield.ru

Indeed there have been, such as a T-35/85 taking out 3x Tiger IIs by hideing and shooting them at point blank range. But there are some impressing accounts small numbers of the Tiger II blasting through Russian panser as a knife through hot butter.
 

Colt .45 killer

Grizzled Veteran
May 19, 2006
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Wonder what would happen if they didn't add the tiger2, and added a jagdtiger instead. No turret, but it would have a gun close to the siz of the IS2.
srry i just had to reply to this .. by saying this ... hahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahaha

incase you dont know, the tiger 2's penetration was outdone by 1 tank gun in ww2 .. that was the jagdtigers 139mm gun.. the jagdtiger is the only tank that can penetrate the tiger 2s frontal armor, and thats only under 170 yards. put plainly, the jagtiger would be absolutley crazy, if you want imballance, then a jagdtiger or 2 would be the best way to get there ... those things could punch through any russian tank with 1 hit .. angeled or not any t34 would be 1 hit and dead .. an is2 .. ehh .. probably 1 hit..
 

HansGering

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 7, 2006
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srry i just had to reply to this .. by saying this ... hahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahaha

incase you dont know, the tiger 2's penetration was outdone by 1 tank gun in ww2 .. that was the jagdtigers 139mm gun.. the jagdtiger is the only tank that can penetrate the tiger 2s frontal armor, and thats only under 170 yards. put plainly, the jagtiger would be absolutley crazy, if you want imballance, then a jagdtiger or 2 would be the best way to get there ... those things could punch through any russian tank with 1 hit .. angeled or not any t34 would be 1 hit and dead .. an is2 .. ehh .. probably 1 hit..

Hihihi, map: long open areas.. craploads of soviet t34/85s and IS2s

2x Jadtigers 2x Kingtigers and some panthers... hirr hirr hirr hirr...
 

jedinstven-o crni Wuk

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 3, 2006
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Hihihi, map: long open areas.. craploads of soviet t34/85s and IS2s

2x Jadtigers 2x Kingtigers and some panthers... hirr hirr hirr hirr...

and the next map they run out of fuile or have to be abadoned cause of a brakedown ... and the crew gets rolled over by a lot crapload soviet T34 and IS2 ... hirr hirr hirr hirr
 

A-tree

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 3, 2006
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Twas just playing FH for bf42, on kharkov winter. Its filled with early war tanks and was super mega fun.
Adding light tanks would be the bestest.
 
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